Confirmed with Link: [EDM/BUF] McLeod + Tullio for Matt Savoie

[Fourier]

Yeah, I realized that if it wasn't clear.

Thanks again for clarification on the likely arbitration amounts. Wasn't aware it could be that high for McLeod.

I was thinking more around 3M.

Looking more closely at recent signings I might revise my prediction to $3-4M. While his offensive output probably puts him at more like $3M his pk results and other metrics are going to help his case,

 

[Drivesaitl]

WTF? We almost won the cup because he was in the line up! What playoffs were you watching?

Yep. This too. Easy to see the deal from both sides. Buffalo, a team that has focused more on GA is moving more in that direction getting responsible players like McLeod and getting rid of terrible 200ft players like Skinner. Buffalo can also tout McLeod as a player that has been all the way to game 7 final. McLeod has now entered that space and been there. Selling point for a young team and their fans, just as it would be anywhere that a team has not had success. Thats how these things are marketed. I mean the only reason Perry was even here at all was being around past finals and even on a cup winner. He's brought nothing to the table other than that. You could have him on coaching/support/advisory staff and it wouldn't make a difference.

I get how Oilers fans think about the deal now, thats been clarified but I don't see it as Buffalo getting robbed either. Both clubs got what they wanted and at considerable cost.

 

[McDNicks17]

200ft forwards that are flexible and can play top, bottom or special teams, and are in prime ARE rare. If they weren't we'd have some. We only ever get these guys at age 30 or so if they are any good at all. Otherwise we've had to feast on decades of Euro players that are not good enough for the NHL, generally. We've had a too long list of these.

McLeod has value and that confirmed in trade. Both teams benefit. Buffalo right away gets benefit. Oilers get deferred benefit unless one factors in players that will take places but as much as I like Henrique he's only a short option here due to age.

He isn’t a 200ft forward though. He can get the puck from zone to zone, but he’s as useless as they come when in either zone.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He isn’t a 200ft forward though. He can get the puck from zone to zone, but he’s as useless as they come when in either zone.

Even if thats the conclusion a strong north south player with blazing speed and puck entry/exit ability of McLeod is quite usable with skill, and has shown that here. Park him with duds like old Brown, Ryan etc and nothing happens. Park him with one player that can drive and McLeod can be part of offense in supporting role.

Yeah, if he was useless in ownzone he wouldn't be sporting some fantastic pk numbers or used so much on the unit by a pretty good coaching staff. If you want to say he's poor in ozone, sure.

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

Is Savoie more of a Briere/Point or more of a Yamamoto?

 

[Ninety7]

Is Savoie more of a Briere/Point or more of a Yamamoto?

Definitely more in the mould of point.

Savoie has an elite skill set.


Yamo never displayed the level of skill savoie has

 

[McJadeddog]

Cap casualty I would call it more than Cap Dump. Cap dump implies the player has negative value, Mcleod doesn’t have negative value. To us, he’s not a fit, to many teams he would be. But even better than a 2M fair value player is a 900K player that has the potential to far outperform that contract. Savoie represents that, and would be a huge upgrade to this roster if he can hit within these ELC years.

Not a gaurantee he does, but it’s a good bet from what I’ve read and how his stats are trending. After watching video I’m even more convinced he could be ready sooner rather than later.

Yes, cap casualty is a better term for sure.

 

[McJadeddog]

Still, McLeod scored 4 goals in 10 games after the benching. Scored 3 goals in the final round making him one of our leading scorers in that round. McLeod was scratched one game in playoffs, and responded well I thought. His stats support this.

McDavid and McLeod led the Oilers in SC final scoring. Each with 3 goals. Drai had zero, Nuge had one, Hyman had 2. Henrique 2.

The notion that McLeod was stinking the joint out in playoffs or the final was a bit manufactured.

Brown scored 4 goals all season and only 2 in playoffs and he "stepped up''? Seems like the bar is set different depending on name of player. McLeod in 2024 and beyond is probably better at every aspect of hockey than an old post injury Connor Brown.

I like McLeod more than most I would argue, but he was a travesty in game 7, especially in the 1st and 2nd periods. Complaining that Drai had zero goals with a broken rib and broken finger is pretty hilarious. Yeah, its true, but there is just a BIT more context to the situation no?

McLeod was almost a healthy scratch at various points in the playoffs. Was he the worst player? No, he had bright spots, but he wasn't some irreplaceable player at all.

The Oilers are going to miss McLeod, especially in the regular season, but he was the cap drop, he was going to get a pretty good raise next offseason, and we got a very good, 3 year cost controlled, resource back. These are the trades that happen when you are up against the cap, and have a team going for it every year.

Without question McLeod is the better player than Brown, now and in the future. I don't see many people arguing otherwise.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I like McLeod more than most I would argue, but he was a travesty in game 7, especially in the 1st and 2nd periods. Complaining that Drai had zero goals with a broken rib and broken finger is pretty hilarious. Yeah, its true, but there is just a BIT more context to the situation no?

McLeod was almost a healthy scratch at various points in the playoffs. Was he the worst player? No, he had bright spots, but he wasn't some irreplaceable player at all.

The Oilers are going to miss McLeod, especially in the regular season, but he was the cap drop, he was going to get a pretty good raise next offseason, and we got a very good, 3 year cost controlled, resource back. These are the trades that happen when you are up against the cap, and have a team going for it every year.

Without question McLeod is the better player than Brown, now and in the future. I don't see many people arguing otherwise.

Not sure if you noticed or not I'm a Draisaitl fan.

Was just saying.

I didn't notice Mcleod being horrible in first couple periods, no.

Anyway moving on.

 

[nexttothemoon]

When they had to cut bait on Kostin last year and instead kept and signed McLeod... I openly said I'd have rather paid that money to Kostin instead.

It's my view that Kostin brings physicality/grit... the guy can play like a wrecking ball when motivated and can snipe when given time in the lineup.

I think he would have been a more impactful player in the playoffs than McLeod was... maybe similar regular season stats... but more suited to a playoff-style game.

I'm not really pining over "lost Kostin" BUT just stating for the record that since I would have chosen Kostin over McLeod to start with... I'm not particularly shook over McLeod's exit... and yes I see he has some useful features regarding speed and PK ability.

I also remember back to when McLeod signed his deal... he felt he was low-balled but it would be worth it to go for the cup here and win in Edmonton. The situation with his brother probably weighed on him somewhat last season as well. In the end he was a cap casualty here and he gets a fresh start in Buffalo and may well become a solid key piece on that team that helps them get into the playoffs. He might still have some upside as well since he's still young enough to realize he needs to change his game to get a little more physical to potentially become an elite middle-six power forward... instead of what he is now... a 3rd line centre who's better as a winger.

 

[McJadeddog]

Interesting view and why I asked. For sure I don't know what McLeod would get in arbitration but we don't know for certain either it would go that route. Maybe he wants to be in East closer to his bro? I dunno, but none of us really do. I do defer to you however on your view of what arbitration range would be.

I think comparisons to Yamamoto are off. McLeod for all the talk here about being weak or soft (not you) is actually much closer to ironman. In short he can take it. His speed and style of play also does not require the same degree of eating punishment than was the case for the diminutive Yamamoto.

Pulju a better comparison.

In anycase I get more of what people are saying now. Sorry to have been not looking at all the aspects. I'm not into capology as you know.

The comparison Fourier was making with Yams, was the contract situation coming up to RFA with arb rights, not the player. McLeod is OBVIOUSLY a significantly better player than Yams is/was.

Edit: I see Fourier and you had a discussion about this after.

 

[Shizuka]

Mcleod is the infinitely more valued player over Kostin, come on now. Kostin chased the dollar, good for him. But he made the choice he did and moved on, and I doubt management would bring him back. It was pretty weird seeing him trying to jump back on the bandwagon during the playoffs honestly.

 

[McJadeddog]

Not sure if you noticed or not I'm a Draisaitl fan.

Was just saying.

I didn't notice Mcleod being horrible in first couple periods, no.

Anyway moving on.

haha, yeah I've noticed

McLeod was beyond putrid, my wife had to tell me to quit yelling about him cause she was getting annoyed at me, lol. That is a true story, and McLeod was deserving of my wrath. He is a good plyer overall, and I 100% agree that his underlying stats are quite good actually, at least in the regular season. He does seem to maybe be the type of player that does well in the regular season, but because of the makeup of the player, doesn't do well in the playoffs. Maybe after being traded for the first time, he'll turn things around for playoffs though, certainly wouldn't be the first player to do so.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Mcleod is the infinitely more valued player over Kostin, come on now. Kostin chased the dollar, good for him. But he made the choice he did and moved on, and I doubt management would bring him back. It was pretty weird seeing him trying to jump back on the bandwagon during the playoffs honestly.

McLeod has assets to his game to be sure... but in a 25 game, 4 round playoff season I'd rather have Kostin in the lineup smashing bodies and getting some snipe goals. I think a player like that would have a bigger impact overall than McLeod.

Oilers lost some of that physical element when Kane was subpar because of his injuries which I think hurt the team overall.

 

[McJadeddog]

I was not comparing McLeod to Yamamoto or JP as a player. It was the circumstance that was comparable. Both players were looking at arbitration awards in the $3-4M range and that killed any trade value they may well have had. I think there is a pretty easy case to make that if McLeod simply duplicates this year with the higher cap, he would be in the $3.5-4.5 range. At that point the Oilers probably would not even qualify him if they could not trade him. And at that level his trade value would be less than a guy like Savoie by a great deal I think. They might get a 3rd or 4th which from a practical position would not be of any help to the team for years at best.

Beyond his potential as a cheap skilled forward on the big team, if Savoie has a very good year in the AHL he can even be used as a piece to upgrade the RHD. The guy has a high end pedigree and might well be seen as the right sort of asset that a rebuilding team covets. Right now there are question marks concerning his health. If he puts those to rest, he could become a very valuable trade chip. If he does not then the loss may well be at worst one year of McLeod in a role that is not so well defined.

This is something I have been thinking as well. Lets be honest, Savoie (even with great advancement in his career) is incredibly unlikely to help us win a cup next year, and likely not the year after either. He would be a "bit player" at best in those runs, and likely a non-factor. That isn't a slight against the player, but just the reality for 95% of 20 year old NHLers. However, if he has a great year in the AHL (scored 65 points over 55 GP by the TDL and remains healthy, or whatever) I could really see him being a trading chip for a big TDL move. Maybe there is another deal out there similar to Ekholm, where we trade Ceci + Savoie for a big upgrade.

I think as a trade chip, Savoie has a lot more value than McLeod would, as long as Savoie continues his upwards progression.

 

[Drivesaitl]

haha, yeah I've noticed

McLeod was beyond putrid, my wife had to tell me to quit yelling about him cause she was getting annoyed at me, lol. That is a true story, and McLeod was deserving of my wrath. He is a good plyer overall, and I 100% agree that his underlying stats are quite good actually, at least in the regular season. He does seem to maybe be the type of player that does well in the regular season, but because of the makeup of the player, doesn't do well in the playoffs. Maybe after being traded for the first time, he'll turn things around for playoffs though, certainly wouldn't be the first player to do so.

The game 7 was too surreal to me to really have had my best impression of what was going on. The game felt impending to me, like 2006 did. Soon as Florida got the 2-1 goal I said to the wife thats it, she felt the same way. Too bad it was a game 7 at all. We should've won series imo.

I doubt I ever rewatch the game either. Too painful. I've never rewatched the 2006 game either.

I'll defer to your notes rather than rewatching heh.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Interesting. When did you pick that up?

I've just seen him a lot. Seems like a very North East drive the net player that got by on athleticism.

I was more more impressed with Benson, Geekie, Firkus, Calvert etc.

Reminds me of a smaller less physical Holloway in ways, but with better scoring ability.

 

[McDNicks17]

Even if thats the conclusion a strong north south player with blazing speed and puck entry/exit ability of McLeod is quite usable with skill, and has shown that here. Park him with duds like old Brown, Ryan etc and nothing happens. Park him with one player that can drive and McLeod can be part of offense in supporting role.

Yeah, if he was useless in ownzone he wouldn't be sporting some fantastic pk numbers or used so much on the unit by a pretty good coaching staff. If you want to say he's poor in ozone, sure.

That first part is almost word for word the argument for why Puljujarvi was so good.

 

[nexttothemoon]

McLeod has .34 pts/game in his regular season career... and is +10 in 219 games... in his playoff career that drops to .23 pts/game and he's -13 in 56 games.

Even the simple stats show how he is generally less effective when the games get harder and more critical.

 

[Drivesaitl]

McLeod has assets to his game to be sure... but in a 25 game, 4 round playoff season I'd rather have Kostin in the lineup smashing bodies and getting some snipe goals. I think a player like that would have a bigger impact overall than McLeod.

Oilers lost some of that physical element when Kane was subpar because of his injuries which I think hurt the team overall.

One of the curious offseason things to me is the number 1 complaint about McLeod is lack of physicality but the Oilers have done nothing to address what was a team roster problem. We've removed Desharnais, formerly Kostin, Pulju, etc. All of whom led the team in hits in past years. We've airlifted in more smallish or non physical players. Skinner and Arvie had some bite to them formerly but not now, not at all now.

To me one of our foremost problems in playoffs is teams taking liberties. Both Vancouver and Florida took advantage of this and we had no answer. None. Basically our star players getting battered and thats just what it is. I've never seen a club do so little to offer their star players premium protection. The Oilers don't even seem to value that when they have it.

To his credit Kane kept hitting but the team overall had little of that.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

As much as I love Rico and Perry, we are a significantly slower team with Foegele and Clouder gone. A lot of 'team speed' was lost.

We are in danger of being 'old and slow'.

 

[McFlyingV]

Even if thats the conclusion a strong north south player with blazing speed and puck entry/exit ability of McLeod is quite usable with skill, and has shown that here. Park him with duds like old Brown, Ryan etc and nothing happens. Park him with one player that can drive and McLeod can be part of offense in supporting role.

Yeah, if he was useless in ownzone he wouldn't be sporting some fantastic pk numbers or used so much on the unit by a pretty good coaching staff. If you want to say he's poor in ozone, sure.

Thing thing about in-zone defending is PKing is quite literally nothing like defending 5 on 5. You play a very structured set up where your primary goal is to push guys to the outside and get sticks in passing lanes, and you don't really try to hit or separate guys from pucks because it might put you out of position. I'm a strong believer that players who are not good at defending 5 on 5 can be very good PKers because the skillset required is so drastically different.

As much as I love Rico and Perry, we are a significantly slower team with Foegele and Clouder gone. A lot of 'team speed' was lost.

We are in danger of being 'old and slow'.

Holloway and Broberg for a full season, and Arvidsson will make up for that speed loss. Skinner's not speedy, but he's a good east west skater just not straight line. I don't think the loss will be as noticeable as we think.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Mcleod is the infinitely more valued player over Kostin, come on now. Kostin chased the dollar, good for him. But he made the choice he did and moved on, and I doubt management would bring him back. It was pretty weird seeing him trying to jump back on the bandwagon during the playoffs honestly.

Don't think its weird at all. Maybe it is from an affluent North American perspective. To a Russian kid when you get a chance at a dollar you grab it like life depends on it. Different mindset coming from a place of want and shortage and strife.

So that its not at all mutually exclusive for Kostin to both love the Oilers AND the almighty dollar. Why wouldn't he? Hell most NA people would grab the 2M if offered.

Nor would the Oilers take it personally either. Players know the business side is separate. Its only fans that make these kinds of comments.

As much as I love Rico and Perry, we are a significantly slower team with Foegele and Clouder gone. A lot of 'team speed' was lost.

We are in danger of being 'old and slow'.

Seems like somebody might even have said that.

I sure don't love Perry. Years ago Perry yes, present one, hell no.

 

[McFlyingV]

That first part is almost word for word the argument for why Puljujarvi was so good.

In a sense Puljujarvi and McLeod's defensive games are not all that different. Good straight line skaters with good sticks who aren't exactly good defenders in their own zone at 5 on 5.

 

[nexttothemoon]

One of the curious offseason things to me is the number 1 complaint about McLeod is lack of physicality but the Oilers have done nothing to address what was a team roster problem. We've removed Desharnais, formerly Kostin, Pulju, etc. All of whom led the team in hits in past years. We've airlifted in more smallish or non physical players. Skinner and Arvie had some bite to them formerly but not now, not at all now.

To me one of our foremost problems in playoffs is teams taking liberties. Both Vancouver and Florida took advantage of this and we had no answer. None. Basically our star players getting battered and thats just what it is. I've never seen a club do so little to offer their star players premium protection. The Oilers don't even seem to value that when they have it.

To his credit Kane kept hitting but the team overall had little of that.

No argument from me there.

That's one facet of the game I think they didn't push hard enough vs Florida.

They had Carrick available as well who was leading the team in hits/60 in the playoffs but refused to play him over guys like Ryan/Perry etc.

I figured Carrick must have been injured because without a healthy Kane in the lineup that physical element was definitely lacking and in a series that came down to basically a goal... that physical element may have made a difference along the way if Florida bodies were getting regular beatings for 7 straight games.