Proposal: Dubois to Habs

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habsfan44

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Getting Anderson + Gallagher flipped, even at half, into Panarin = comparable cap hit and less term and >>>>>>>>>>> productivity, + getting help in securing PLD early, while keeping 2023 1st is worthwhile. Also LaF is nowhere near 'flop territory'; other than extra elcs he compares favorably and is a more polished immediate option than Slaf.

PLD + LaF will be expensive no matter what, quality always costs, but they will most likely give MON a home discount. Slaf yes has 2 extra elcs but after that, no reason to expect any long term commitment.

Be that as it may.
NY will have to figure another way to get cap for its young core while keeping Trouba + Panarin until their cap can be repurposed later.

NY has no incentive to help Habs otherwise.
Sink or swim on your own.
Funny how the Habs end up with the bloated contracts , retention on multiple players for multiple years and useless players that the Rangers don't want and New York ends up with young talented players on entry level contracts and a bevy of high picks . Habs have no incentive to solve all of the Rangers cap problems or to load up their farm system with high picks or their NHL roster with talented young players on elc's . Sink or swim on your own !
 
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habsfan44

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The poster you are replying to did not say that fans haven't been saying this, he is saying that those are not assumptions, they are factual because his agent came out publicly about it, and the player has the control to make it happen, and acted accordindly by signing his qualifying offer.
Agents will do and say anything to jack up prices when contract talks start . Is there any record of Dubois saying that he wants to play in Montreal ? Yeah , I didn't think so and even if he did the Habs are under no obligation to make his dream come true especially if we have better options available to us .
 

HabsQC

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No. We have a very good beginning of the season, but we are going to cool off and get a high draft pick this year and likely next year. If he really wants to come here, we'll sign Dubois after that.
 
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habsfan44

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To be fair though Kurt Overhardt set the precedent with Jacob Trouba saying his client would only re-sign with one team. If Brisson came out the next offseason and said the same things he said this summer, the Jets are not going to have any leverage.

Hold on to your 1sts Montreal, because you'll probably need one to convince Chevy to part with his superstar, among other prospects. It's always possible the Jets keep him as an own rental. Playoff revenues are important for Winnipeg as a market, as is winning, to put fans in the seats. Montreal needs neither of those to make profits.

Winnipeg's UFA class of 2024-2025 is probably worth a total value of over $40 million AAV on the market, if not higher, so that's some tough decisions for our GM.
So players with a couple of 60 point seasons under their belt are now classified as superstars , good to know , back in the day we called them second liners .
 
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habsfan44

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Only one problem. Habs will not be retaining 50% on Anderson's contract, NOT A CHANCE IN HELL and the rest of your offer is unrealistic as usual and your not getting Guhle, Slaf,3 x1st rd picks period.:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Delusional proposal is delusional. Don't know if I should be shocked , horrified or entertained or probably a combination of all three lol .
 
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jfhabs

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Again, assuming Jet braintrust crunches #s and it appears
long term value of assets provide immediate/short term help > PLD now then walking w'in 2 yrs

IF that is the case, a deal would ideally
- have long term upside [future pieces, prospects/picks]
- include a useful asset now which can be flipped as a rental if desired down the road.

--------------------------
The vet piece to be added here is not Monahan, but IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, Anderson.
It is currently NOT possible b'c Andy salary is too much $$$$$ and too long term, even if MON ate half.

Howev if you had a third team taking Andy first, and then maybe doing a final retain on top of that, along with futures assets, that would be enuf to get PLD, who could then be flipped to MON. Think Rangers
who could do

deal for Anderson first so he can be flipped to WPG
Habs have 0 cap so return on this must be min 5.5 going the other way

1. Anderson 5.5 x 5 max 50% reduced to 2.75 per
for
Reaves 1.75 expiring
Carpenter .75 expiring
Vesey .75 expiring
Khodorenko .925 expiring -> rfa retain .295 = .63
Gettinger .75 expiring ->rfa
Henriksson .870 x 2 ->rfa

cap hit is exactly = 5.5 each;
contracts:
pre deal, MON has 45/50; they add 6, subtract 1 = net 5 which short term = fit


2. NYR - WPG
Jones .925 expiring ->rfa
Anderson 5.5 x 5 reduced by half = 2.75 per
Rangers eat .75 per so total = 2 per season!
NYR 2024 + 2025 1sts
total cap hit = 2.925

to WPG for
PLD 6M expiring
Jets 2024 and 2025 2nd round picks
total cap hit = 6

net cap dif = hit on Jets = (subtract 6, add 2.925 =) + 3.075 savings

----------
That would cover that part of it.

The follow thru is extensive, and it requires MON understand, it can on this occasion by happenstance have its cake and eat it too --- but not if it is greedy.

Habs want to max accelerate getting back to contending, but don't want to walk away from possible 1OA.
THEY CAN DO THAT if if if they straighten out the Fs, get them ready this yr to roll next yr, but suck ass on both D and G, which will require retool starting next season. That will be easier (fewer bodies) than Fs. Still do great at draft this yr

NY needs to move bread's 11+m but not give away free, get good future value
arguably bread agrees to waive nmc to huge stage in MON but that is IF IF IF he sees enuf dots connected to Habs quick turn around

NY can do all that for a profit and mutual back scratch

Panarin has played w/PLD + is good at RW w/LaF at LW, LaF likely to give some level of discount to Habs

A. Do the above deals
B. side deal 1:1 LaF for Slaf
C. PLD + Panarin for profit, profit, profit

assuming they all waive:
PLD 6.0 expiring ->rfa @ half retained = 3.0
Panarin 11,642,875 x 4
Lindbom elc .855 x 2
total cap hit = 15,497,875

to Rangers for
cap dump Gallager 6.5 x 5 max 50% reduced to 3.25 per
cap dump Hoffman 4.5 x 2
cap dump Drouin 5.5 expiring
cap dump Allen 2.875 current hit, then 3.85 x 2
Justin Barron .925 elc x 2
Guhle 863,333 x 3 elc
FL 2023 1st + Mon 2023 2nd
Mon. 2025 and 2027 1sts
16.913,333

cap dif = [16.913,333 - 15,497,875 =] 1,415,458 cap savings to MON/hit to NYR
contracts: NY adds 3, MON deducts 6, which NY can do

why MON.
Deal removes F deadwood from Habs roster, replacing w/PLD + bread = 1st line adds
now have solid Fs throughout, Suzuki, Dach pushed down in lines, others get a chance to replace short term [Druin, Hoffman] + long term [Gallagher] w/youth

cost is in goal and at D, Habs will improve and score more but suck ass at backline and in net. After effectively tanking, it will be easier to add fewer quality bodies at D and find at least one good G

NY — not done, but short term, are addressing structural cap by moving Panarin and getting value for him
Add 1sts and prospects
Rangers will sell off excess vets
==============

Have to work out final, but essentially NY flips Allen + possibly retaining, pays Ducks for taking Gallagher
acquire Vatrano
Allen makes Gibson available more readily

etc etc etc
I know Gorton used to work for the Rangers, but his goal is to win a Stanley Cup for Montreal now, not the Rangers.... wow god awful proposal. In order to rebuild we give up Guhle, Barron and 3 x 1st, doesn't make any sense all of that to have Panarin at an equivalent cap hit of 17.642M for the next 4 years (retention on Gallagher and Anderson).

How about we just stay put, let our bad deal expire and keep drafting geeeezzz
 

habsfan44

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This is a case where I think the habs are better off waiting, Dubois will come home...let's take the least costly route.
The least costly route would be filling the second line center spot internally through the draft .
 

voyageur

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Jul 10, 2011
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So players with a couple of 60 point seasons under their belt are now classified as superstars , good to know , back in the day we called them second liners .
Dubois is tracking for a 35-40 goal season, seems like only 2 guys in Montreal have that potential this year. I feel like we're getting a pretty good return on a $6 million investment when you look at what Montreal is getting out of Gallagher, Monahan, Anderson, Drouin and Dadonov...3 more goals combined for what almost $27 million in Cap space.
 
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habsfan44

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As many posters have suggested thats a very real option, but not one without risks......either way this thread was started by a Habs fan, not a Jets fan.
What exactly is the risk ? He signs with another team , ooohh the horror . Let's stop pretending Dubois is the only number two center option available to the Habs on planet earth and to not acquire him would be tragic because he isn't and it wouldn't be .
 
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habsfan44

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He's worth ballpark 5-ish imo BUT THAT IS NOW. His term is a real thing and that presses interest down on a current buy.
To get a buyer now, mindful that there is term which you have to either pay or buy out, more than max retention is needed. If he were finishing his deal around 30,31, that would mitigate things a bit. But he will be older
He'll be the ripe old age of 32 or 33 when his contract is done . Why don't you just admit that you don't know what your talking about and spouting false narratives for the express purpose of diminishing Andersons value . Truth is no sane G.M. is retaining 50% for five years on any contract no matter how many times you say they should and there is no indication that management is keen to move him for anything less than fair value in a hockey trade . I for one have no problem with his cap hit , term or on ice performance and prefer that we keep him for the foreseeable future .
 
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Hunter368

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Nov 8, 2011
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What exactly is the risk ? He signs with another team , ooohh the horror . Let's stop pretending Dubois is the only number two center option available to the Habs on planet earth and to not acquire him would be tragic because he isn't and it wouldn't be .

I’m not pretending that, again my comment is in context to this thread by a Habs fan suggesting PLD going to the Habs. Feel free to go out trade or sign or draft or do nothing……personally don’t care what the Habs do.
 

Hunter368

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Nov 8, 2011
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No rush, sign Dubois as a UFA at the end of next season.

As it’s been stated many times in this thread, that’s absolutely an option. Many options, go draft or trade or sign another player. Literally no one is suggesting you can’t, but this thread was started by a Habs fan wanting to trade for PLD.
 

habsfan44

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Jul 26, 2006
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Dubois is tracking for a 35-40 goal season, seems like only 2 guys in Montreal have that potential this year. I feel like we're getting a pretty good return on a $6 million investment when you look at what Montreal is getting out of Gallagher, Monahan, Anderson, Drouin and Dadonov...3 more goals combined for what almost $27 million in Cap space.
Saying he's tracking for 35-40 goals is no different than the used car salesman saying that the vehicle was owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church and the grocery store , it's called puffery . I hope you realize that the Habs got a first for taking Monahans expiring contract for no return , and dumped Webers contract for Dadonovs expiring deal , Drouin was a dud from the beginning but is also an expiring contract and Gallagher and Anderson will be contributors on the Habs roster for the foreseeable future so whatever point you were trying to make pales in comparison to the big picture .
 
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voyageur

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Saying he's tracking for 35-40 goals is no different than the used car salesman saying that the vehicle was owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church and the grocery store , it's called puffery . I hope you realize that the Habs got a first for taking Monahans expiring contract for no return , and dumped Webers contract for Dadonovs expiring deal , Drouin was a dud from the beginning but is also an expiring contract and Gallagher and Anderson will be contributors on the Habs roster for the foreseeable future so whatever point you were trying to make pales in comparison to the big picture .
The big picture is the Jets are playing a nice, tight defensive system, 2nd in the league in GAA, and +11 goal differential, getting 37% of their goals from their top 2 centres, competing for 1st in their division, while Montreal is scoring more than the Jets but have given up 59 goals in 17 games, with -7 goal differential, falling back in the pack, getting limited production for a huge Cap investment. When you clear out much of the bad cap investment this offseason, might need that 1st round pick to upgrade at 2C. Though I'm not slighting Monahan, he's a good player. But he's also a UFA. Gallagher's making more than Dubois and will never outscore him again in his career. Anderson will likely never outscore Dubois either for nearly the same Cap value. But the Jets are getting the job done with Dubois as a 2C, PP force, and winning, so we're pretty happy for the time being.
 

habsfan44

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The big picture is the Jets are playing a nice, tight defensive system, 2nd in the league in GAA, and +11 goal differential, getting 37% of their goals from their top 2 centres, competing for 1st in their division, while Montreal is scoring more than the Jets but have given up 59 goals in 17 games, with -7 goal differential, falling back in the pack, getting limited production for a huge Cap investment. When you clear out much of the bad cap investment this offseason, might need that 1st round pick to upgrade at 2C. Though I'm not slighting Monahan, he's a good player. But he's also a UFA. Gallagher's making more than Dubois and will never outscore him again in his career. Anderson will likely never outscore Dubois either for nearly the same Cap value. But the Jets are getting the job done with Dubois as a 2C, PP force, and winning, so we're pretty happy for the time being.
You're making unfair comparisons , why not compare the Jets to other teams on a similar trajectory instead of a team coming off a last overall finish and are in re-tool/rebuild mode , comparing your teams defense to the Habs who are unsurprisingly struggling with four rookies playing big minutes in the lineup , why not compare Dubois to Suzuki who many on this board have told us is a second line center and wouldn't it be fairer to compare Anderson and Gallagher to a couple of your third line wingers instead of your second line center ? Not sure what point you're trying to make here other than our team is better than your team na na nanana .
 

HuGort

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No because Dubois won't sign for the same money and term as Dach and the '23 draft is leaps and bounds better than the '22 draft .
Habs probably sign Dubois as UFA. Habs still few years away from being good team. Cost be too high to trade for him. Jets will still get big return on him as a rental. In a year and 3 months
 
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habsfan44

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I’m not pretending that, again my comment is in context to this thread by a Habs fan suggesting PLD going to the Habs. Feel free to go out trade or sign or draft or do nothing……personally don’t care what the Habs do.

Habs probably sign Dubois as UFA. Habs still few years away from being good team. Cost be too high to trade for him. Jets will still get big return on him as a rental. In a year and 3 months

OOPS ! Please ignore .
 

JohnTheBaptist

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Habs probably sign Dubois as UFA. Habs still few years away from being good team. Cost be too high to trade for him. Jets will still get big return on him as a rental. In a year and 3 months
This is sound reasoning, the price is going to be high on PLD. Patience is key here. Hold the line.
 
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