Proposal: Dubois to Habs

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HuGo Sham

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I think Florida stupidly paying a 1st for Chiarot has chia-rotted the Hab fans brains when it comes to play evaluations. They are expecting 1sts+ for Monahan, Edmundson, Evans and now Dvorak lol. All while getting pumped nightly.
another generalization - The counter troll post to some habs fans evaluations - not unlike other fanbases btw.
All of those guys may be worth 1sts at the deadline IF they overachieve OR some team is desperate enough - as they play premium positions ( D and C).
That being said, many of us don't see them acquiring firsts for these guys right now.
time will tell
 
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Hunter368

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I don’t understand the logic of Jets fans suggesting yhe Habs trade for him rather than wait 1.5 years. If PLD wants to be a longterm Hab he will be when he becomes a ifa. If he doesn’t then he will sign elsewhere. Those outcomes do not change by trading for him now.

Habs will be patient. Trading for PLD during a rebuilding phase and risking losing him when he becomes a ufa is idiotic.

Virtually no Jets fans are advocating the Habs trade for PLD now or ever, Jets fans simply responding to a thread started by a Habs fan. Many have stated just wait till he's a UFA and its a valid option.
 

JoelWarlord

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I think there's some confusion going on in here between "what Habs fans think Dubois is worth" and "what Habs fans think Montreal would be willing to pay based on the specific circumstances surrounding Dubois and his alleged desire to play in Montreal long-term". By and large, I do not believe that most Canadiens fans think Dubois is "worth" a package like Dvorak + Florida 1st + a B prospect, they're simply looking at past history with Trouba and proposing that as a roughly similar package that plausibly makes sense in a very similar situation to what just happened with Trouba a few years ago.

Dubois is not a player Montreal would target at fair market value at this time. He is only an option for the Habs if it comes at some sort of a discount akin to what happened with Trouba. If his desire to play in Montreal turns out to be untrue and it turns into an open bidding war with other teams involved, I think most Habs fans accept that what the Canadiens are willing to part with will not be enough to get it done via trade. Either the speculation is true and it means he comes at a discount in the offseason, or it's not true and he gets traded elsewhere and we see what happens with his free agency situation.

It's just a circular argument because the entire point from Montreal's perspective here is that he makes sense IF the speculation that he is only willing to sign in Montreal long-term (or at least heavily prioritizes that option over alternatives) turns out to be true, because that would diminish his trade value. Nobody disagrees that his raw value as a player is better than what Montreal fans are proposing, but Montreal is not in a position to pay the price normally associated with his intrinsic value right now.
 

Hunter368

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Ya, a trade hasn't happened because 2 guys from the internet can't agree on value.



This is why.

Along with the fact that the Jets want to keep him. Nothing to do with a difference in valuations.

I don't agree exactly with this, the two GM's involved reportedly did have a conversation regarding a trade but obviously it didn't happen and highly likely it was bc of a difference in valuation. Again this was in the media, so its not total speculation, very likely they did talk about a talk. Depending on which version of the rumor you believe, the details are slightly different.
 

Hunter368

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I think there's some confusion going on in here between "what Habs fans think Dubois is worth" and "what Habs fans think Montreal would be willing to pay based on the specific circumstances surrounding Dubois and his alleged desire to play in Montreal long-term". By and large, I do not believe that most Canadiens fans think Dubois is "worth" a package like Dvorak + Florida 1st + a B prospect, they're simply looking at past history with Trouba and proposing that as a roughly similar package that plausibly makes sense in a very similar situation to what just happened with Trouba a few years ago.

Dubois is not a player Montreal would target at fair market value at this time. He is only an option for the Habs if it comes at some sort of a discount akin to what happened with Trouba. If his desire to play in Montreal turns out to be untrue and it turns into an open bidding war with other teams involved, I think most Habs fans accept that what the Canadiens are willing to part with will not be enough to get it done via trade. Either the speculation is true and it means he comes at a discount in the offseason, or it's not true and he gets traded elsewhere and we see what happens with his free agency situation.

It's just a circular argument because the entire point from Montreal's perspective here is that he makes sense IF the speculation that he is only willing to sign in Montreal long-term (or at least heavily prioritizes that option over alternatives) turns out to be true, because that would diminish his trade value. Nobody disagrees that his raw value as a player is better than what Montreal fans are proposing, but Montreal is not in a position to pay the price normally associated with his intrinsic value right now.

Jets fans POV is there is multi comparable to use, Trouba is one, Chariot is another when discussing values and returns.

Jets fans only care that if he doesn't sign with them, they couldn't careless where he's traded to, they just expect/want the best return the market dictates for a player of that value with that contract situation.

Jets fans are very aware they won't get full value, thats not being discussed b/c Jets fans know they aren't getting his true value. They are just comparing the values of other players traded in similar situations (Trouba) or at the TDL as a pure rental (Chariot). To-date the suggestions from some Habs fans have been PLD traded at the TDL returns only slightly more than Chariot did as a pure rental, keeping in mind PLD has one year left on a cheap contract (assuming he's traded this summer), which Jets can retain on to make him even more attractive to cup contenders who want a very good 2C & potential 1C. Habs are not the only trade destination for PLD, Jets can trade PLD this summer at 50% retained on a very good 2C, even if its only for one year the return would be more than what many here has suggested.

As many have stated, Habs likely are better off waiting until he's a UFA so they can get him for free possibly, trading for him this summer the price would be too high for posters here based on their replies.
 
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jfhabs

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He's worth ballpark 5-ish imo BUT THAT IS NOW. His term is a real thing and that presses interest down on a current buy.
To get a buyer now, mindful that there is term which you have to either pay or buy out, more than max retention is needed. If he were finishing his deal around 30,31, that would mitigate things a bit. But he will be older
At 31 it would be ok but at 32 it's a problem? He's not really for sale anyway. Obvious the return will be best if we retain 50%, but I'd probably keep him around as opposed to pay 2.75M of dead cap for the next 5 years. We're not paying to get rid of a useful player because he's overpaid 1M, that would be terrible asset management. If we can get a decent return without retention, taking back an expiring deal, that's another story.
 

habsfan44

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Habs are currently 2 points out of the wild card position with a game in hand…….Habs aren’t some bottom 5 team this year, they likely draft in the 10-12 range IMO. People underestimated how good the Habs would be this year
It's early days so I wouldn't get too far over my skis with these evaluations , come mid December early January the Habs won't be taking anybody by surprise and teams will be better prepared for them which means the losses will become more frequent . I think we're easily a bottom ten team and maybe even as low as bottom five depending on injuries and moves made at the deadline . But I really love the optimism and have no problem saying that the light at the end of the tunnel keeps getting brighter and brighter on a daily basis . Let's say that I'm a little more cautious in my expectations than you .
This is hilarious.

A "passable" second line C. He is a borderline 1C (70 point pace this season which would rank him around 21st for scoring as a C last year). He is big and tough and plays a heavy game in the paint and along the boards. Very few centres in the league match him that way. He is 6th in scoring in his draft class. How is that a disappointment?


Of course not. Dubois is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more accomplished than Dach at this stage of their careers.
Pace doesn't matter a row of beans and everything else you said is just puffery , the fact is he has a career high of a 61 point season in 82 games and career totals of 109 goals 142 assists for 251 points in 375 games including this year , that's the disappointment . With that being said he is still young enough to take the next step in his development but I haven't seen any indications that this is likely to happen no matter much I wish it to be true .
 
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JoelWarlord

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Jets fans are very aware they won't get full value, thats not being discussed b/c Jets fans know they aren't getting his true value. They are just comparing the values of other players traded in similar situations (Trouba)
Then I guess I don't understand why Florida 1st + Dvorak + a B prospect is being viewed as this major lowball, because that's basically what Trouba was dealt for. I realize Pionk has developed really well and I'm a big fan of his, but at the time of the trade he was a #4-5 with an uncertain projection and the deal was him + a 20th overall pick for a 25-year-old top pairing RD that had just put up a 50 point season. That's pretty similar value to the proposed 1st in the 20s + a middle-six C + a B prospect package even if Dvorak is less attractive as an individual piece than Pionk.
or at the TDL as a pure rental (Chariot)
It's true that the proposed deal is not much more than what Chiarot received as a rental, but it's also broadly in line with what Trouba fetched. It's quizzical to me that this trade is being compared to Chiarot who was a rental 30-year-old #4-5D with far less in common with Dubois than Trouba who had very similar age/pedigree/performance before he was traded, and was in a very comparable situation regarding a long-term extension (again, provided we take the speculation of Dubois/Montreal as true which is absolutely not a certainty).

Rentals vs. contracts with term are always odd comparisons as teams have certainty of where their pick will end up at the deadline which they don't have in the offseason. They're also willing to overpay to use up their banked cap space, and may be targeting players they couldn't afford all year. Lots of players go for weird value at the deadline relative to the offseason, Oliver Bjorkstrand cost a 3rd and a 4th in the summer yet tons of way less valuable players will be traded for more at the deadline. Weird things happen at the deadline and teams get desperate, It's just not that relevant as a comparison in my opinion.

To be clear I have no illusions of Montreal trading for him at the deadline, I am strictly talking about this upcoming offseason where he will be an RFA with 1 year of arbitration, once again as a direct comparable to Trouba.
keeping in mind PLD has one year left on a cheap contract... Jets can trade PLD this summer at 50% retained for a very good 2C, even if its only for one year the return would be more then what many here has suggested.
Not quite. He has a year of RFA status remaining and arbitration rights. You could call that splitting hairs, but it does actually matter quite a bit. Dubois not having a deal signed for next year means they need to come to an agreement for 23-24 before he even has a contract that Winnipeg could retain on, provided they're even willing to do so. That is another pressure point for Dubois to force a trade if he so desires, as there is no downside on his end to simply waiting until arbitration for a 1-year award at which point many of the contenders may have already made their offseason moves and wouldn't have the cap for him.

The Jets could also decide to wait out his arbitration and trade him retained at the 23-24 deadline for a bigger return than what Montreal would pay this coming offseason if they couldn't find a contender able to trade for him in the summer, but they also may not want to go into the year with that hanging over their heads and risk him getting injured.
As many have stated, Habs likely are better off waiting until he's a UFA so they can get him for free possibly, trading for him this summer the price would be too high for posters here based on their replies.
Maybe, it all just depends on the scenario. For what it's worth I'd be personally willing to come up from that Dvorak + Florida 1st + B Prospect package by a significant margin (and I'm perfectly willing to remove Dvorak for something else entirely if he's not attractive), as I think there is value to getting a player in place and signed, avoiding going down the UFA road and all the risks and bidding wars associated with that, especially coming out of the flat cap era where other teams will be eager to spend.
 

ole ole

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I agree with your comments, big physical centers are worth a lot......to most, but not all in this thread apparently.

I'm curious what the Habs do with some of their vets, Im sure expiring contracts or dumps will be traded at the TDL, but the Habs are better this year then many thought they would be so I suspect vets with term will be kept examples, Dvorak.

Jets are currently one of the top teams in the NHL, PLD is a big part of that, your right he won't be traded during this season. But chevy won't take this into next season I suspect, same as Trouba, PLD will be traded this summer IMO to the highest bidder (likely a eastern team) he won't walk for free. Jets aren't a FA designation hot spot, no Canadian teams are TBH and the Jets live & die on draft & develop so PLD will be traded if he won't sign here long term. Traded to who? When? Return? Will be interesting to see.
I would tend to believe that ANY Vet on the Habs would be available just not giving anyone away. We don't need to. If what is offered for one of our vets interest us we should deal. If not keep and ride it all out. We are sitting in a sweet spot in our rebuild and that should be our main focus . No real expectation and watching our team begin to form. In 3 yrs we COULD/SHOULD be different team.
 

howkie

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I dont know. The Habs new GM has done a fantastic job in his short tenure. He is clearly very shrewd.
It is easy to sale, all those Buffalo gms has shown that, but he failed this summer to get PLD. I doubt that islanders pick was meant for Dach, it was meant for PLD but it failed so he got Dach (which now looks like a great move if he can keep it up, and also shows how bad Kyle Davidson is valuing his assets...)
 

ole ole

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Literally no one thought Chariot was a 1-3 D, on his best day he's a #4D and most of the time he's a #5D, heck even TSN Insiders were calling him a #4/5D at the time, but you think the FL GM thought he was a top pairing D or something? No chance he thought Chariot was some second coming of Weber.

Chariot was traded with 50% retained, you think PLD can't be traded with 50% retained to any of the many bidders as a rental (one year rental or TDL rental)?

Your right PLD is much more valuable than Chariot & PLD should return considerable more even if traded at next years TDL, nevermind this summer.

You weren't specific in your post of when this trade would happen, I suggested this summer so I will assume that was what your thinking also, so:

Chariot returned at the TDL as a rental FL 1st, 4th & C level prospect

You're suggesting if PLD is traded during the summer with one year on a cheap deal (potentially 50% retained) plus verbal agreement on a new contract the only thing PLD brings back more than Chariot (who was traded at the TDL) is instead of a 4th & C level prospect, PLD would bring back two B level prospects (even though some of the ones you listed IMO are C level but whatever I won't get into that) & 2nd rd pick? Lets for the sake of this evaluation say the 4th & C level prospect are worth roughly one of those B level prospects just spit balling.

So that means you're saying PLD returns potentially 50% retained traded this summer to (any of the teams in the NHL even as a rental for one year) on a super cheap one year deal and verbal agreement on a long term deal to the Habs only returns one B level prospect & 2nd rd pick more than Ben "Freaking" Chariot did at the TDL

You honestly think that? Be honest, do you really think that? Neither of us have any influence over the value of what PLD actually gets traded at, I (as do other posters in this thread) just want to know for future reference do you actually believe what you're saying above? PLD 50% retained, with verbal agreement traded this summer (not at the TDL) is only worth a 2nd rd pick & one B level prospect more than what Chariot got at the TDL? Be honest
Can't speak for the rest but i believe that even with a reasonable extension in place you will a get better return from some other team than the Habs. We can afford to wait. Don't believe we will be willing to pay his market value and because of that the Jets if moving him should get the best return for him.
What would another team offer for him Today? With no talks of an extension in place.
 

BaseballCoach

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So here's a template of a trade; pieces could be added or taken out if needed.

Montreal get:

- Pierre-Luc Dubois


Winnipeg get:

- 2024 1st (top 5 or 10 protected)
- Monahan or Evans
- Two choices between Roy/Barron/Kidney
Monahan if healthy has value. He is only 28 and has been a first line player not that long ago. He can win lots of faceoffs and can play both C and LW, like Dubois. He has good chemistry wiht the Habs and seems happy. Why don't we re-sign him at say 3 years times $4.5M or so, and keep our 2024 1st rounder and all three of Barron, Roy and Kidney?
 
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Boss Man Hughes

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It is easy to sale, all those Buffalo gms has shown that, but he failed this summer to get PLD. I doubt that islanders pick was meant for Dach, it was meant for PLD but it failed so he got Dach (which now looks like a great move if he can keep it up, and also shows how bad Kyle Davidson is valuing his assets...)
I highly doubt that they acquired the 1st for Dubois. Because I doubt they would ever give up the 1st for Dubois and thy wouldn't have acquired it without another deal already in place.
 
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JustAHabFan

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Assuming PLD sticked to his gun and want to go to UFA. What kind of return the Jets is expecting at TDL, next summer, or next year TDL?
 

Hunter368

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Then I guess I don't understand why Florida 1st + Dvorak + a B prospect is being viewed as this major lowball, because that's basically what Trouba was dealt for. I realize Pionk has developed really well and I'm a big fan of his, but at the time of the trade he was a #4-5 with an uncertain projection and the deal was him + a 20th overall pick for a 25-year-old top pairing RD that had just put up a 50 point season. That's pretty similar value to the proposed 1st in the 20s + a middle-six C + a B prospect package even if Dvorak is less attractive as an individual piece than Pionk.

It's true that the proposed deal is not much more than what Chiarot received as a rental, but it's also broadly in line with what Trouba fetched. It's quizzical to me that this trade is being compared to Chiarot who was a rental 30-year-old #4-5D with far less in common with Dubois than Trouba who had very similar age/pedigree/performance before he was traded, and was in a very comparable situation regarding a long-term extension (again, provided we take the speculation of Dubois/Montreal as true which is absolutely not a certainty).

Rentals vs. contracts with term are always odd comparisons as teams have certainty of where their pick will end up at the deadline which they don't have in the offseason. They're also willing to overpay to use up their banked cap space, and may be targeting players they couldn't afford all year. Lots of players go for weird value at the deadline relative to the offseason, Oliver Bjorkstrand cost a 3rd and a 4th in the summer yet tons of way less valuable players will be traded for more at the deadline. Weird things happen at the deadline and teams get desperate, It's just not that relevant as a comparison in my opinion.

To be clear I have no illusions of Montreal trading for him at the deadline, I am strictly talking about this upcoming offseason where he will be an RFA with 1 year of arbitration, once again as a direct comparable to Trouba.

Not quite. He has a year of RFA status remaining and arbitration rights. You could call that splitting hairs, but it does actually matter quite a bit. Dubois not having a deal signed for next year means they need to come to an agreement for 23-24 before he even has a contract that Winnipeg could retain on, provided they're even willing to do so. That is another pressure point for Dubois to force a trade if he so desires, as there is no downside on his end to simply waiting until arbitration for a 1-year award at which point many of the contenders may have already made their offseason moves and wouldn't have the cap for him.

The Jets could also decide to wait out his arbitration and trade him retained at the 23-24 deadline for a bigger return than what Montreal would pay this coming offseason if they couldn't find a contender able to trade for him in the summer, but they also may not want to go into the year with that hanging over their heads and risk him getting injured.

Maybe, it all just depends on the scenario. For what it's worth I'd be personally willing to come up from that Dvorak + Florida 1st + B Prospect package by a significant margin (and I'm perfectly willing to remove Dvorak for something else entirely if he's not attractive), as I think there is value to getting a player in place and signed, avoiding going down the UFA road and all the risks and bidding wars associated with that, especially coming out of the flat cap era where other teams will be eager to spend.
Maybe, it all just depends on the scenario. For what it's worth I'd be personally willing to come up from that Dvorak + Florida 1st + B Prospect package by a significant margin (and I'm perfectly willing to remove Dvorak for something else entirely if he's not attractive), as I think there is value to getting a player in place and signed, avoiding going down the UFA road and all the risks and bidding wars associated with that, especially coming out of the flat cap era where other teams will be eager to spend.
Howdy,

I clipped your post in my reply, not bc I didn’t read it, it just doesn’t invalidate anything I stated and I don’t want to force you or others to read what I’ve already posted multi times & create more of a circular debate. Overall good post, I liked it, it’s a POV.

Let me first say, Habs have a very valid option of waiting 1.5 years for him to become a UFA and then you can hope that he signs with the Habs and you don’t have to give up any assets. Now that’s out of the way, I’ll respond to your comments I quoted.

To be clear I’m not and never have I stated PLD will return “x”, honestly I don’t know what he’ll return exactly but we can estimate what he should return based on other trades. This is what I and others have attempted to do in this thread.

The most common offer Jets fans have seen by a wide margin is the Dvorak, FL 1st and a B prospect from some Habs posters.

Trouba (widely thought of as a #3D at the time, with potential to be a #2D) returned Pionk (#4D at time, more offensive minded PMD) & 20th OA pick. Trouba had one year team control left, he made it very clear NYR was the only team he was signing with via agent leaking it to GM’s & media. This is an example of a summer trade.

Chariot, UFA rental, physical defensive #4/5D returned FL 1st (going to be a late pick), 4th & C level prospect. This is an example of a TDL rental trade.

You stated you would offer significantly more than the Dvorak, FL 1st and B level prospect. What examples of offers are you suggesting?

Jets needs are forwards, ideally top 6 Centre if PLD being traded, roster or prospect (I know roster top 6 C not possible from Habs, Suzuki obviously is not being looked at and Habs don’t have another top 6 centre). Dach is projecting to be a winger more than a centre. Jets don’t need Dman from roster or prospects, Jets have too many now. Picks is also an option for 2023 draft.
 

Hunter368

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Assuming PLD sticked to his gun and want to go to UFA. What kind of return the Jets is expecting at TDL, next summer, or next year TDL?

That’s what we’re discussing but fair to say if he’s traded at TDL next year it’s a lot more then Chariot.
 

ole ole

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He's worth ballpark 5-ish imo BUT THAT IS NOW. His term is a real thing and that presses interest down on a current buy.
To get a buyer now, mindful that there is term which you have to either pay or buy out, more than max retention is needed. If he were finishing his deal around 30,31, that would mitigate things a bit. But he will be older
delete
That’s what we’re discussing but fair to say if he’s traded at TDL next year it’s a lot more then Chariot.
Than name a team and what they might be willing to give up.
 

ole ole

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And no one is saying it’s impossible. There is a good chance he does go to mtl at some point. But a chance not a certainty.
Not sure either way but if has any idea of not wanting to go/stay in Montreal than why the hell would we pay any assets for him?
 

Heldig

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Monahan if healthy has value. He is only 28 and has been a first line player not that long ago. He can win lots of faceoffs and can play both C and LW, like Dubois. He has good chemistry wiht the Habs and seems happy. Why don't we re-sign him at say 3 years times $4.5M or so, and keep our 2024 1st rounder and all three of Barron, Roy and Kidney?
Yes and Calgary PAID a 1st to get rid of him. Go ahead and sign him. Less need for Dubois then and this endless thread can end.
 

Michoulicious

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Habs are rebuilding team for the next 2 years.

Makes no sense to give assets for a guy that is UFA in 2 years and that was adamant about not signing long term with the Jets.

Let them trade him as a rental to a contender or go for it with him in the line-up. If they still want him when they are ready to contend in 2 years, they'll make him the big 8 year offer then.
 

habsfan44

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I would tend to believe that ANY Vet on the Habs would be available just not giving anyone away. We don't need to. If what is offered for one of our vets interest us we should deal. If not keep and ride it all out. We are sitting in a sweet spot in our rebuild and that should be our main focus . No real expectation and watching our team begin to form. In 3 yrs we COULD/SHOULD be different team.
A lot of posters seem to have much difficulty grasping this concept
Again, assuming Jet braintrust crunches #s and it appears
long term value of assets provide immediate/short term help > PLD now then walking w'in 2 yrs

IF that is the case, a deal would ideally
- have long term upside [future pieces, prospects/picks]
- include a useful asset now which can be flipped as a rental if desired down the road.

--------------------------
The vet piece to be added here is not Monahan, but IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, Anderson.
It is currently NOT possible b'c Andy salary is too much $$$$$ and too long term, even if MON ate half.

Howev if you had a third team taking Andy first, and then maybe doing a final retain on top of that, along with futures assets, that would be enuf to get PLD, who could then be flipped to MON. Think Rangers
who could do

deal for Anderson first so he can be flipped to WPG
Habs have 0 cap so return on this must be min 5.5 going the other way

1. Anderson 5.5 x 5 max 50% reduced to 2.75 per
for
Reaves 1.75 expiring
Carpenter .75 expiring
Vesey .75 expiring
Khodorenko .925 expiring -> rfa retain .295 = .63
Gettinger .75 expiring ->rfa
Henriksson .870 x 2 ->rfa

cap hit is exactly = 5.5 each;
contracts:
pre deal, MON has 45/50; they add 6, subtract 1 = net 5 which short term = fit


2. NYR - WPG
Jones .925 expiring ->rfa
Anderson 5.5 x 5 reduced by half = 2.75 per
Rangers eat .75 per so total = 2 per season!
NYR 2024 + 2025 1sts
total cap hit = 2.925

to WPG for
PLD 6M expiring
Jets 2024 and 2025 2nd round picks
total cap hit = 6

net cap dif = hit on Jets = (subtract 6, add 2.925 =) + 3.075 savings

----------
That would cover that part of it.

The follow thru is extensive, and it requires MON understand, it can on this occasion by happenstance have its cake and eat it too --- but not if it is greedy.

Habs want to max accelerate getting back to contending, but don't want to walk away from possible 1OA.
THEY CAN DO THAT if if if they straighten out the Fs, get them ready this yr to roll next yr, but suck ass on both D and G, which will require retool starting next season. That will be easier (fewer bodies) than Fs. Still do great at draft this yr

NY needs to move bread's 11+m but not give away free, get good future value
arguably bread agrees to waive nmc to huge stage in MON but that is IF IF IF he sees enuf dots connected to Habs quick turn around

NY can do all that for a profit and mutual back scratch

Panarin has played w/PLD + is good at RW w/LaF at LW, LaF likely to give some level of discount to Habs

A. Do the above deals
B. side deal 1:1 LaF for Slaf
C. PLD + Panarin for profit, profit, profit

assuming they all waive:
PLD 6.0 expiring ->rfa @ half retained = 3.0
Panarin 11,642,875 x 4
Lindbom elc .855 x 2
total cap hit = 15,497,875

to Rangers for
cap dump Gallager 6.5 x 5 max 50% reduced to 3.25 per
cap dump Hoffman 4.5 x 2
cap dump Drouin 5.5 expiring
cap dump Allen 2.875 current hit, then 3.85 x 2
Justin Barron .925 elc x 2
Guhle 863,333 x 3 elc
FL 2023 1st + Mon 2023 2nd
Mon. 2025 and 2027 1sts
16.913,333

cap dif = [16.913,333 - 15,497,875 =] 1,415,458 cap savings to MON/hit to NYR
contracts: NY adds 3, MON deducts 6, which NY can do

why MON.
Deal removes F deadwood from Habs roster, replacing w/PLD + bread = 1st line adds
now have solid Fs throughout, Suzuki, Dach pushed down in lines, others get a chance to replace short term [Druin, Hoffman] + long term [Gallagher] w/youth

cost is in goal and at D, Habs will improve and score more but suck ass at backline and in net. After effectively tanking, it will be easier to add fewer quality bodies at D and find at least one good G

NY — not done, but short term, are addressing structural cap by moving Panarin and getting value for him
Add 1sts and prospects
Rangers will sell off excess vets
==============

Have to work out final, but essentially NY flips Allen + possibly retaining, pays Ducks for taking Gallagher
acquire Vatrano
Allen makes Gibson available more readily

etc etc etc
What a convoluted , meandering mess of a proposal . Allow me to simplify - Habs will be more than happy to wait on Beck , one of the '23 first rounders or someone else already in the system to take the second line center spot . What they won't do is retain 50% on multiple players for multiple years , trade Anderson for six players that are useless to them while retaining 50% , trade Slafkovsky for a player thats trending into flop territory , trade two good , young d-men on elc's one of whom is trending into number one defenseman territory ,move three first rounders and a second rounder in the same trade for Panarins bloated $11,642,857 contract plus PLD who will be looking for an 8 or 9 million dollar long term deal when his contract is up and as a side note Gallagher , Allen and to a lesser extent Hoffman are not cap dumps in the eyes of management because they are all contributing and providing veteran leadership .
 

habsfan44

Registered User
Jul 26, 2006
1,579
447
PLD for Guhle. There is your trade.

Real value going each way. That’s how trades work my man. Both teams part with something that’s painful.

You do realize he is NOT a UFA at the end of his current contract right? Just saying you may be waiting a long time.
Doesn't matter , Montreals future doen't revolve around Dubois or an off handed remark by his agent about where he might like to play .
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
28,633
4,201
Da Big Apple
... What a convoluted , meandering mess of a proposal . Allow me to simplify - Habs will be more than happy to wait on Beck , one of the '23 first rounders or someone else already in the system to take the second line center spot . What they won't do is retain 50% on multiple players for multiple years , trade Anderson for six players that are useless to them while retaining 50% , trade Slafkovsky for a player thats trending into flop territory , trade two good , young d-men on elc's one of whom is trending into number one defenseman territory ,move three first rounders and a second rounder in the same trade for Panarins bloated $11,642,857 contract plus PLD who will be looking for an 8 or 9 million dollar long term deal when his contract is up and as a side note Gallagher , Allen and to a lesser extent Hoffman are not cap dumps in the eyes of management because they are all contributing and providing veteran leadership .
Getting Anderson + Gallagher flipped, even at half, into Panarin = comparable cap hit and less term and >>>>>>>>>>> productivity, + getting help in securing PLD early, while keeping 2023 1st is worthwhile. Also LaF is nowhere near 'flop territory'; other than extra elcs he compares favorably and is a more polished immediate option than Slaf.

PLD + LaF will be expensive no matter what, quality always costs, but they will most likely give MON a home discount. Slaf yes has 2 extra elcs but after that, no reason to expect any long term commitment.

Be that as it may.
NY will have to figure another way to get cap for its young core while keeping Trouba + Panarin until their cap can be repurposed later.

NY has no incentive to help Habs otherwise.
Sink or swim on your own.
 

habsfan44

Registered User
Jul 26, 2006
1,579
447
Maybe he gets traded to a contender down south, and it turns out he prefers winning cups and living at the beach over having to deal with Habs fans and media :dunno:
Maybe his agent is using Montreal as a foil to jack up his price when contract talks start .
 
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