Proposal: Dubois to Habs

[Gabe Kupari]

Jets are 9 4 1. Were tied for 1st In central last I checked. They ain't trading him and honestly, why would they?

All this tho for A GUY who has played with studs like Connor and Panarin and has a career high of 60 points?

Honestly... it's gonna be great when he goes UFA and demands 10 million a year for 60.points

 

[Adam da bomb]

When is the last time a player was traded for that much!? And how did it turn out?

Beck definately top 5 for me with all the graduates. Roy probably around 10 depending on how you like his games. Extremely talented but has junior flaws to work on.


Well that first likely comes from a playoff team ar the TDL. Both the 1st and the second would be 15 rank lower than ours. Beck is not a B prospect, Roy is a B+ maybe. If he comes with an extension what's the price tag because that will affect is overall value...

Debrincat went for ottawas 8th last season. Some ppl think a power forward is more valuable than a goal scorer. It just happened. Schneider for a 10th. That’s also just for the pick. Hunter was offering a swap of 1st picks so that is a much lower price.

i dont think we are good trading partners so we’ll have to try and trade him somewhere else and you’ll have to try to entice him to Montreal in a 1.5 if you still want him. Which at that point might suck for us but just the way she goes.

Thank you for the report on Beck and Roy.

 

[ole ole]

I would hope not. The Jets if they Can’t resign Helly and Schief they may have to go with a youth movement. Miller blocks that.

does his life long dream of being a hab outweigh his lifelong dream of winning a cup?

It did for Taveras.

 

[ole ole]

Jets are 9 4 1. Were tied for 1st In central last I checked. They ain't trading him and honestly, why would they?

All this tho for A GUY who has played with studs like Connor and Panarin and has a career high of 60 points?

Honestly... it's gonna be great when he goes UFA and demands 10 million a year for 60.points

Well if he demands 10 mil a yr than i will say you guys are right .He won't be becoming a Hab.

 

[TS Quint]

I could imagine the Habs moving Dvorak and FLO's 1st at 2023 draft, maybe along with a lesser asset or two, for Dubois after some discussions about a contract extension.

Dvorak is a liability, getting ripped in shot share again This year like he always does. Habs can keep that mistake.

 

[bernmeister]

Would the original trade be better if we added a player, like let say, Anderson aka a good/useful player to help the team now?
Or if we added picks?
Or instead of two of Roy/Kidney/Barron, that we upgrade that to of choice of either Mesar or Beck?

What would be more palatable?

Anderson is legit guy now. Monahan is not.
see comments below

Anderson is a long term cap dump, so no he doesn't help.

Correctimundo, see comments below.

If we were to trade (we're not trading him), it would be for 1st +

Wow!
And you say I overrate my assets!!

right NOW at 5.5 x 5, Anderson IS a short term + but a long term cap dump, acquiring club has to protect vs risk his contract is toxic latter half on.

For that reason, you MUST eat the max
but that may not be enough given 5 mo yrs term on a guy who plays a physical, energetic game but will wind up mid 30s

To make Andy desirable, you prob need to flip him to a 3rd team, who will then retain again, so he goes from 2.75 to like 2.

And to answer your question, yes if you can deal with the above, Anderson is a positive add right now who would defray and mitigate loss of PLD production right now --- but not at full salary pop. You MUST deal w/salary + term by retaining if not also getting it reduced further

He might not be an asset WPG wants, but he's far from being a cap dump. Calling him that just shows you don't know hockey.

He is not a cap dump now IN A VACUUM, but outside that vac, acknowledging his full term, he is to be considered a cap dump as acquiring team must protect vs production falloff as he ages

Dvorak is a liability, getting ripped in shot share again This year like he always does. Habs can keep that mistake.

On this we agree.
Glad Rangers avoided stupid win now calls to acquire

 

[jfhabs]

When was the last time you saw a very good proven young 2C with clear 1C potential get traded with a year on his cheap contract left and agreed to an extension.

Eichel, Duchene,

Anderson is legit guy now. Monahan is not.
see comments below


Correctimundo, see comments below.


Wow!
And you say I overrate my assets!!

right NOW at 5.5 x 5, Anderson IS a short term + but a long term cap dump, acquiring club has to protect vs risk his contract is toxic latter half on.

For that reason, you MUST eat the max
but that may not be enough given 5 mo yrs term on a guy who plays a physical, energetic game but will wind up mid 30s

To make Andy desirable, you prob need to flip him to a 3rd team, who will then retain again, so he goes from 2.75 to like 2.

And to answer your question, yes if you can deal with the above, Anderson is a positive add right now who would defray and mitigate loss of PLD production right now --- but not at full salary pop. You MUST deal w/salary + term by retaining if not also getting it reduced further



He is not a cap dump now IN A VACUUM, but outside that vac, acknowledging his full term, he is to be considered a cap dump as acquiring team must protect vs production falloff as he ages


On this we agree.
Glad Rangers avoided stupid win now calls to acquire

Anderson might be overpaid as a 20g-20a power forwards, but 2-2.5M for that type of player!?! What year is this??? He's easily worth 4M and cap will soon start going up.

 

[Adam da bomb]

It did for Taveras.

And no one is saying it’s impossible. There is a good chance he does go to mtl at some point. But a chance not a certainty.

 

[pth2]

Eichel, Duchene,

Anderson might be overpaid as a 20g-20a power forwards, but 2-2.5M for that type of player!?! What year is this??? He's easily worth 4M and cap will soon start going up.

It's always interesting how people judge contracts.... Anderson is seen as an anchor because of term, yet with a rising cap it's likely he'll have a fair contract, maybe even a bargain if he ages well (not a given, but a distinct possibility). ie, it's not 5.5 for 5 years in the current flat cap, it's a year or two of flat cap and 3 years of high-inflation (and inflation catchup), quickly-rising cap.... so his 5.5 will be equivalent to 4 fairly soon.

He'd get his current contract as a UFA, easily, anyways.

 

[junyab]

Dubois is hitting free agency, so why pay anything for him when we could just send him the biggest offer.

 

[Tanknation]

"We will just wait and get him for free."

I honestly can't remember the last time I heard that and it came true.

Gaudreau. Just because you don't hear about it, which you should not if player was smart, does not mean does not happen by the dozens each and every year.

Most players just keep it quite, unlike Dubois.

 

[junyab]

Jets are 9 4 1. Were tied for 1st In central last I checked. They ain't trading him and honestly, why would they?

All this tho for A GUY who has played with studs like Connor and Panarin and has a career high of 60 points?

Honestly... it's gonna be great when he goes UFA and demands 10 million a year for 60.points

Panarin has outscored his linemates by a decent margin in every season he wasn't playing with Patrick Kane. And you do realize Dubois was only 19 and 20 in those years with Panarin right?

 

[Heldig]

Dubois is hitting free agency, so why pay anything for him when we could just send him the biggest offer.

Sure. 2 seasons from now. IF he hits free agency.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Gaudreau. Just because you don't hear about it, which you should not if player was smart, does not mean does not happen by the dozens each and every year.

Most players just keep it quite, unlike Dubois.

Werenski, Copp.

 

[Snowman]

It's always interesting how people judge contracts.... Anderson is seen as an anchor because of term, yet with a rising cap it's likely he'll have a fair contract, maybe even a bargain if he ages well (not a given, but a distinct possibility). ie, it's not 5.5 for 5 years in the current flat cap, it's a year or two of flat cap and 3 years of high-inflation (and inflation catchup), quickly-rising cap.... so his 5.5 will be equivalent to 4 fairly soon.

He'd get his current contract as a UFA, easily, anyways.

When you have to inflate a players statistics to levels that he hasn't seen in 4 years. Then have hope that the player avoids the inevitable and improves his play as he ages. Then have to hope that the salary cap rises dramatically in a couple years, all just to try and rationalize a player's contract as fair.... all those gymnastics demonstrate that you are describing a player that is a cap dump.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Dvorak is a liability, getting ripped in shot share again This year like he always does. Habs can keep that mistake.

I think Florida stupidly paying a 1st for Chiarot has chia-rotted the Hab fans brains when it comes to play evaluations. They are expecting 1sts+ for Monahan, Edmundson, Evans and now Dvorak lol. All while getting pumped nightly.

 

[pth2]

When you have to inflate a players statistics to levels that he hasn't seen in 4 years. Then have hope that the player avoids the inevitable and improves his play as he ages. Then have to hope that the salary cap rises dramatically in a couple years, all just to try and rationalize a player's contract as fair.... it demonstrates that you are describing a player that is a cap dump.

Inflation is high. The cap is going up. This isn't rocket science.

I think Florida stupidly paying a 1st for Chiarot has chia-rotted the Hab fans brains when it comes to play evaluations. They are expecting 1sts+ for Monahan, Edmundson, Evans and now Dvorak lol. All while getting pumped nightly.

Monahan is a tough read due to injuries, but Edmundson is very similar to Chiarot, and Dvorak cost a 1st and a 2nd, so neither of those being worth a 1st under the right circumstances is a huge reach.

I'm unaware of anyone expecting Evans to be worth a 1st.

 

[Hunter368]

Eichel, Duchene,

Eichel example isn't close to a comparable, that situation was toxic by the time he was traded and I mean toxic. Sabers just needed to dump him and get him out of that organization and they've done well considering.

Duchene is at least a closer example.

Still no one has argued the fact that a player like PLD traded (to any team) at the TDL next year is going to return a mid to late 1st (Habs likely are a mid ranged pick at 10-12 OA), B Level prospect (multi listed as examples, you focused on one of them only Beck ok throw Beck out of example) and a mid round pick/prospect. This is a given without any retention by the Jets (depending on the team he's traded to retention is a real possibility). So thats all if he's traded at the TDL next year (ie over a year from now), now the example the one poster & I were talking about when you jumped into the conversation at the end of it was a trade happening during this summer pre draft and how does that effect the return......sure isn't going to lessen the return its only going to increase the only question is by how much.

 

[Hunter368]

Dubois is hitting free agency, so why pay anything for him when we could just send him the biggest offer.

As many posters have suggested thats a very real option, but not one without risks......either way this thread was started by a Habs fan, not a Jets fan.

 

[Snowman]

Inflation is high. The cap is going up. This isn't rocket science.

You conveniently avoided him having to hit goal and point totals he hasn't seen in years and Anderson miraculously not being affected by age. All to try and paint his contract as palatable.

 

[Hunter368]

It's always interesting how people judge contracts.... Anderson is seen as an anchor because of term, yet with a rising cap it's likely he'll have a fair contract, maybe even a bargain if he ages well (not a given, but a distinct possibility). ie, it's not 5.5 for 5 years in the current flat cap, it's a year or two of flat cap and 3 years of high-inflation (and inflation catchup), quickly-rising cap.... so his 5.5 will be equivalent to 4 fairly soon.

He'd get his current contract as a UFA, easily, anyways.

I like the player, hate his contract. Often good players, with skill limitations but still good players are given bad contracts and I hate to see it bc it just kills all interest in the player. He's paid too much and his term is terrible.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

How so?
Guy is going to hit UFA after next season.
He is either going to come or he isn't. What is to understand?
I don't have to give up assets now to get him. If he wants to come that bad as reported he will come.

Because you're talking as if NHL players are AIs with no sentience. And it's already been confirmed that the Canadiens are interested in trading for him, which makes trading assets to get him reasonable for a number of reasons:

- Ensures that you have his rights and can take your time negotiating a long-term contract with him.
- Dubois has already talked about wanting to settle down somewhere as this will be his one big-term contract. For the sake of your relationship with the player, telling him to stay somewhere he doesn't want for another season because you don't want to give up a couple of assets is very dumb business. That whole 'If he wants to be here so bad, he'll wait' is so stupid. Why would he if that's the attitude the team has towards him?

Neither are the Jets. Year and a half is a long time, if a team like Colorado comes along and makes an offer contingent on Dubois extending long term do you think he says no because of his supposed life long dream to join the Habs? If he makes it to UFA and Montreal still isn't a playoff team do you think he turns down an offer from a contender?

Not sure why you're resorting to childish quips about Winnipeg. Doesn't really have anything to do with what's being discussed.

The poster you're responding to is making a very dumb point for sure but considering Dubois' been trying to force a move here for the last 2-3 years I don't think being a contender/making it to UFA has much to do with his desire to play in Montreal.

 

[Heldig]

I think Florida stupidly paying a 1st for Chiarot has chia-rotted the Hab fans brains when it comes to play evaluations. They are expecting 1sts+ for Monahan, Edmundson, Evans and now Dvorak lol. All while getting pumped nightly.

I dont know. The Habs new GM has done a fantastic job in his short tenure. He is clearly very shrewd.

 

[pth2]

I like the player, hate his contract. Often good players, with skill limitations but still good players are given bad contracts and I hate to see it bc it just kills all interest in the player. He's paid too much and his term is terrible.

In fairness, I'm pretty sure he'd get an equivalent contract, even a longer one, as a UFA.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I dont know. The Habs new GM has done a fantastic job in his short tenure. He is clearly very shrewd.

Kent Hughes is awesome and I hate that. Doesn't change what I said, though.