Dubas appreciation thread

[Twine Tickler]

This board will never be able to just sit back and enjoy the show eh? lol

I swear if Dubas was a 70 year old with a massive boiler and a receding hairline people would love every move he makes. But because he rocks thick frame glasses and is the model of youth and inovation, there is this crotchety stench that smothers him.

-Playing at a historic pace
-core group locked in till the end of the 2023-24 season
-at least 4 players coming up that project to be high impact players, all on ELC deals. Most of which will expire at the end of the 2022-23 season
-prospect depth better than ever before, despite picking further back in drafts
-consistently signs value contracts at league minimum that round out our roster. Players that are largely outperforming the league average in their respective positions
-fired a coach that was holding our team back, only to hire the coach who works best with him. Who is also coaching at a very high winning rate. Not sure if it is historic, but would not be surprised

am I missing anything else?

or should we just continue the nonsense that under Lou, we would have been out of the first round by now??

 

[The Podium]

Isn't this year's team composition essentially
+
Joe Thornton, Wayne Simmonds, T.J. Brodie, Zach Bogosian
-
Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Johnsson, Tyson Barrie, Cody Ceci
=
from the one that lost in 5 games to the Columbus Blue Jackets last year in the play-in round?

Seeing because of their ages that Thornton, Simmonds and Bogosian better days are behind them as they near the end of their NHL careers, that this current composition should be viewed more as a short-term fix than long-term building plan when evaluating how good they are?

Most importantly

- Babcock
+ Keefe

 

[sparxx87]

Re. the Matthews deal - I think others have said that both sides wanted an 8 year deal but the cap hit would have been too much which would have hurt us elsewhere so they settled on a 5 year deal. Superstars rarely leave the team that drafted them, he also has Marner feeding him, I think there's almost zero reason to worry about him leaving and rushing things because of that paranoia would be a epic mistake.

Another thought - planning on Matthews leaving might have become a self fulfilling prophecy. Go all in and whether we win or not, the cupboards will be empty and the future bleak which would only give Matthews motivation go go elsewhere.

I hope you’re right, I’m just not so sure.

It’s not paranoia, I just see how drastically the landscape can change in 5 years of professional sports. I don’t think you ever want to empty your cupboards but I don’t mind gambling a little when you’ve got the talent to get close. A ballsy move may be the difference between winning vs getting close and falling off like Ottawa, Buffalo, Philadelphia, San Jose etc in the last 10-15 years.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

This board will never be able to just sit back and enjoy the show eh? lol

I swear if Dubas was a 70 year old with a massive boiler and a receding hairline people would love every move he makes. But because he rocks thick frame glasses and is the model of youth and inovation, there is this crotchety stench that smothers him.

-Playing at a historic pace
-core group locked in till the end of the 2023-24 season
-at least 4 players coming up that project to be high impact players, all on ELC deals. Most of which will expire at the end of the 2022-23 season
-prospect depth better than ever before, despite picking further back in drafts
-consistently signs value contracts at league minimum that round out our roster. Players that are largely outperforming the league average in their respective positions
-fired a coach that was holding our team back, only to hire the coach who works best with him. Who is also coaching at a very high winning rate. Not sure if it is historic, but would not be surprised

am I missing anything else?

or should we just continue the nonsense that under Lou, we would have been out of the first round by now??

I've actually had people tell me they don't like him because of how he looks and speaks. Your post is bang on.

 

[Dekes For Days]

For the record, the Islanders are a decent team now again, but when you actually look at the Lou additions on the roster... Not the prettiest picture...

Pageau - 5th most played forward - cost 1st, 2nd, and conditional 3rd
Komarov - 10th most played forward (when not healthy scratch) - cost 3m cap hit
Wahlstrom - 11th most played forward - 11th overall pick
Martin - 14th most played forward - cost 1.5m cap hit

Greene (38 years old) - 5th most played defenseman - cost 2.7m cap hit
Dobson - 6th most played defenseman - 12th overall pick

So essentially, an 11th overall pick, a 12th overall pick, a 1st, 2nd, conditional 3rd, and 14m in cap space, for...

-2nd liner
-4th liner
-4th liner
-Extra forward
-Bottom pairing defenseman
-Bottom pairing defenseman

And that's not even counting a player like Hickey; a healthy scratch who Lou signed for 2.5m/year until 2022.

Pretty much the only thing of note that he did (as usual) was bring in a good goalie, though it should also be noted that he let one walk that was better, younger, and would have cost the same, and he cancelled out Sorokin's ELC to pay him more than double the amount with 0 GP; something Dubas would have been destroyed for. And he only kept this together by bridging his most important players, and having Boychuk retire.

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

When evaluating the team's long term prospects it makes more sense to me to look at the core then those 4 players.

Brodie's awesome!

Isn't this year's team composition essentially
+
Joe Thornton, Wayne Simmonds, T.J. Brodie, Zach Bogosian
-
Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Johnsson, Tyson Barrie, Cody Ceci
=
from the one that lost in 5 games to the Columbus Blue Jackets last year in the play-in round?

Seeing because of their ages that Thornton, Simmonds and Bogosian better days are behind them as they near the end of their NHL careers, that this current composition should be viewed more as a short-term fix than long-term building plan when evaluating how good they are?

When you factor in that 2 of the guys in the minus column were traded for futures, it kind of makes your point moot. That's the definition of building for long term success: Trading current pieces for ++ value in futures (Kapanen) and bringing in cheap short term replacements while the prospects develop.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I've actually had people tell me they don't like him because of how he looks and speaks. Your post is bang on.

Yup!!

 

[ShaneFalco]

This board will never be able to just sit back and enjoy the show eh? lol

I swear if Dubas was a 70 year old with a massive boiler and a receding hairline people would love every move he makes. But because he rocks thick frame glasses and is the model of youth and inovation, there is this crotchety stench that smothers him.

-Playing at a historic pace
-core group locked in till the end of the 2023-24 season
-at least 4 players coming up that project to be high impact players, all on ELC deals. Most of which will expire at the end of the 2022-23 season
-prospect depth better than ever before, despite picking further back in drafts
-consistently signs value contracts at league minimum that round out our roster. Players that are largely outperforming the league average in their respective positions
-fired a coach that was holding our team back, only to hire the coach who works best with him. Who is also coaching at a very high winning rate. Not sure if it is historic, but would not be surprised

am I missing anything else?

or should we just continue the nonsense that under Lou, we would have been out of the first round by now??

But but but overpayments
"Cap hell"
Took out all the tuffness and character
Took over a team that had the "table set" - that's the best one
And then there's the back-up goalie fiasco

 

[Twine Tickler]

I've actually had people tell me they don't like him because of how he looks and speaks. Your post is bang on.

No GM has addressed the media and fanbase the way KD has. As transparent as you can possibly be without tipping your hand. Never shy's away from accepting failures or shortcomings. Defends his players when necessary. Being a GM of a NHL team is not unlike any other high ranking executive in any other business. How many on here would prefer to work for Lou over KD? probably not many. How many people would like to work for Babs over Sheldon? Again, not many. He has created a culture that is enticing for prospective free agents, and has made it an attractive option for existing players like Jason Spezza to continually sign for 700k only to produce at over 0.5pt/game. The post season succes was never there when Lou was here either, so its kinda laughable TBH. We will succeed in the post season with this core group eventually. We just have to be patient. But KD has given this group of players at the very minimum 4 more postseasons to figure that shit out. Have a hard time believing they will continue to fail 4 more years

 

[sparxx87]

I've actually had people tell me they don't like him because of how he looks and speaks. Your post is bang on.

They would represent a very small minority. Most don’t care how he looks or speaks, they want the team to win or at least compete in the playoffs past round 1. If they do that, nobody is criticizing because nobody cares. They’d be happy the team is winning.

Most adults I’ve spoken to are skeptical someone whose never played competitive hockey understands the bones required to build a winner (he’s already conceded that he underestimated certain elements and worked this offseason to address) It’s fair to be skeptical of this, and likewise with a guy who was able to skip the line because of nepotism.

I’m all for innovation and being ahead of the curve, I’m just not sold Dubas is. I think he inherited a good program but has done little with it to this point.

Hopefully that changes this year. They’ve been gift wrapped a weak division and a trip to the final 4 of the playoffs.

 

[Twine Tickler]

But but but overpayments
"Cap hell"
Took out all the tuffness and character
Took over a team that had the "table set" - that's the best one
And then there's the back-up goalie fiasco

The "cap hell" argument absolutely kills me. I love lighting up my Vancouver friends when they identify the 4 players at 40 million. Yet they seem to forget this core is locked in for years to come. Arguably have no bad contracts on the roster. and have a collection of players under 2 million cap hits that are far out performing their deals. At least our 4 players making 40 million are legit superstar players

 

[Dekes For Days]

He also took his time with Marner.

Dubas did not "take his time" with Marner. Speaking to Marner's camp was one of the first things he did as GM. Marner just had no reason to want to sign that offseason, and Dubas had to navigate the Nylander and Matthews deals as well. Marner refused to negotiate in-season, and then Dubas spent pretty much the whole next offseason trying to get a deal done with Marner, and he got one signed earlier than many of the other RFAs that year. You're misrepresenting things, as usual.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I've actually had people tell me they don't like him because of how he looks and speaks. Your post is bang on.

Someone once literally said they "hate the way he adjusts his glasses for dramatic effect".

 

[4thline]

Thing to appreciate: We're on pace for 116 points over an 82 game season.
Thing to appreciate: We're on pace for 116 points over an 82 game season, and our prospect pool is

Sandin/ Robertson/ Liljegren / Amirov/ Niemela/ Hallander / Hirvonen/ Abbruzezze / Miettinen / Kokkonen /Abramov/ Kral/ Koster/ Holmberg

You could knock 3 of the front off that pool and it would still be more than healthy

 

[Joey Hoser]

They would represent a very small minority. Most don’t care how he looks or speaks, they want the team to win or at least compete in the playoffs past round 1. If they do that, nobody is criticizing because nobody cares. They’d be happy the team is winning.

Most adults I’ve spoken to are skeptical someone whose never played competitive hockey understands the bones required to build a winner (he’s already conceded that he underestimated certain elements and worked this offseason to address) It’s fair to be skeptical of this, and likewise with a guy who was able to skip the line because of nepotism.

I’m all for innovation and being ahead of the curve, I’m just not sold Dubas is. I think he inherited a good program but has done little with it to this point.

Hopefully that changes this year. They’ve been gift wrapped a weak division and a trip to the final 4 of the playoffs.

Most hockey executives and coaches are hired because they are the friends and acquaintances of the decision makers.

Dubas literally worked his way up from stick boy, and proved himself at every level.

Dubas being a GM is the exact opposite of nepotism, while you are advocating for it. I can't believe you managed to get it exactly backwards.

 

[Suntouchable13]

For me, jury is still out. I am not going to anoint him as some great GM until I see playoff success. Doesn't mean a cup this year, I mean at least 1 playoff round victory. Preferably 2. I don't care how well they do in the regular season. That's not what this season is about. So people can parade the regular season numbers all they want.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Lou wasn’t done. He didn’t get his standard 5 years and I don’t fault him for not trading for a defenseman because we don’t know what was available or what the price would be.

You can’t say he wouldn’t have traded for Muzzin when he became available. You can’t see he wouldn’t have signed Brodie. Maybe he doesn’t sign Tavares, keeps Kadri at 2C and uses that money to sign Pietrangelo?

We just don’t know. All we know is that Lamoriello didn’t get the standard 5 years and wanted more time to bring his vision to life. Shanahan was in a hurry to transition to Dubas and the organization took two steps back before seemingly a step forward this year.

His future here being uncertain didn’t stop him from giving Marleau and his horrific contract a third year, a season Lou wasn’t signed for and was unsure he’d be around for.

He probably could’ve packaged those two 2nds he spent on fourth liners and gotten a decent Defenseman.

 

[sparxx87]

Most hockey executives and coaches are hired because they are the friends and acquaintances of the decision makers.

Dubas literally worked his way up from stick boy, and proved himself at every level.

Dubas being a GM is the exact opposite of nepotism, while you are advocating for it. I can't believe you managed to get it exactly backwards.

Most have hockey resumes. Name me one whose had success as a coach or manager without at least playing to college or junior level? The only one I can think of is Jon Cooper in Tampa. And while Lacrosse is a different game, it’s conceivable how a smart and hard working guy could make the transition.

I’m talking nepotism to get his foot in the door with the Greyhounds.

I’m not advocating for anything, I wasn’t Lamoriello’s biggest fan... but I respect how he does business and wanted to see him get his 5 years to see it through.

I said before Lamoriello that I wanted them to buy David Poile from Nashville. Poile is imperfect, but would have almost assuredly drafted them a stud defender or two in the second round if they gave him the opportunity. He built one of the best programs in the league for a time, and did so on a strict budget. Would have loved to see what he’d do with MLSE resources.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Most have hockey resumes. Name me one whose had success as a coach or manager without at least playing to college or junior level? .

Playing a couple years of college hockey in the 70's does nothing to qualify you to be the GM of an NHL team.

 

[zeke]

Most have hockey resumes. Name me one whose had success as a coach or manager without at least playing to college or junior level? The only one I can think of is Jon Cooper in Tampa. And while Lacrosse is a different game, it’s conceivable how a smart and hard working guy could make the transition.

I’m talking nepotism to get his foot in the door with the Greyhounds.

I’m not advocating for anything, I wasn’t Lamoriello’s biggest fan... but I respect how he does business and wanted to see him get his 5 years to see it through.

I said before Lamoriello that I wanted them to buy David Poile from Nashville. Poile is imperfect, but would have almost assuredly drafted them a stud defender or two in the second round if they gave him the opportunity. He built one of the best programs in the league for a time, and did so on a strict budget. Would have loved to see what he’d do with MLSE resources.

if Lou was still here we'd still have Zaitsev and we wouldn't have Tavares or Nylander or Muzzin or Brodie.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Someone once literally said they "hate the way he adjusts his glasses for dramatic effect".

I personally hate how he accepts responsibility for being the leader of a team that has underperformed in playoffs. Oh and I also hate how he cut his losses on a bad Tyson Barrie trade only to sign the player he always wanted in TJ Brodie. The player who somehow miraculously became our best defenseman. God he is such a goof for adjusting his glasses and purposely addressing every media member by their first name. such a clown

 

[Twine Tickler]

if Lou was still here we'd still have Zaitsev and we wouldn't have Tavares or Nylander or Muzzin or Brodie.

lol so true. You could have ended your sentance at "we'd still have Zaitsev" and your point would have been equally as powerful

 

[4thline]

Most have hockey resumes. Name me one whose had success as a coach or manager without at least playing to college or junior level?

Julien Brisebois.
Sam Pollock
Roger Neilson
Stan Bowman

 

[sparxx87]

Playing a couple years of college hockey in the 70's does nothing to qualify you to be the GM of an NHL team.

There is no substitute to the education received growing up in competitive hockey. There is no substitute to learning what makes a great team on and off the ice, and what elements are present that may not be as visible from the stands or on TV.

Never was this more evident than last year against Columbus. That series result wasn’t really surprising for some.

 

[sparxx87]

if Lou was still here we'd still have Zaitsev and we wouldn't have Tavares or Nylander or Muzzin or Brodie.

You’re just speculating. All of that could be wrong, we’ll never know.

I think he would have traded for Seth Jones, John Gibson and JG Pageau... and passed on Tavares instead signing Pietrangelo.

There’s my wild speculation.