The 11m was wisely spent. Pietrangelo will almost certainly provide less value than Tavares over the length of his contract. We currently have one of the best defenses in the league without him.
Dubas appreciation thread
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zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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but you gave credit to Lou even though he inherited his whole leafs team other than Andersen and some bad dmen he signed.
Shanahan was never going to offer him anything past the 3 years as GM, that as it wasn't a part of the plan. It's a moot point.
“Three years ago, Lou and I agreed on a contract that would see him serve as general manager of the Maple Leafs for three years and then transition to senior advisor for the following four years,” said Leafs president Brendan Shanahan in a release. “This morning I informed Lou that I was not going to deviate from that course of action. I will now focus all of my attention towards making a decision regarding our next general manager.”
Lamoriello will not return as Leafs GM - TSN.ca
“Three years ago, Lou and I agreed on a contract that would see him serve as general manager of the Maple Leafs for three years and then transition to senior advisor for the following four years,” said Leafs president Brendan Shanahan in a release. “This morning I informed Lou that I was not going to deviate from that course of action. I will now focus all of my attention towards making a decision regarding our next general manager.”
Lamoriello will not return as Leafs GM - TSN.ca
Specifically the culture change. I’ve never argued he was flawless or even that I liked him, but I think he did a great job taking this team out of the mud and putting them on the right track. Not without mistakes, but I look at where they were before vs where they were when he left.
As a whole, he did well.
the Tavares contract will likely not be a factor TBH. Tavares will still be effective for at the very least 2 more years after this one. Likely 3. And even possibly till the end of his deal, although I'd say less likely. Cap will go up by then, and should we need to move on from his deal we can likely get JT to waive his last year NMC. Lots of teams would be willing to absorb his 11mill hit after his final bonus is paid, which would leave only 900k to pay for. Even at 50% retention in that final year, it would give the Leafs 5.5Million more in cap space. Dubas signed that deal because it is common thought that the leafs contending window would be 7years+ with Auston, Mitch, and Willy. Adding JT complimented that core, and made the team exponentially better. Now, the real task will be resigning the 3 young guns. I am certainly hopeful that it is going to be a smooth process in 3 years time, although I suspect it likely wont. Until then, we have 4 post seasons to get it done. Thats longer than most teams contending window's TBH. And that's only what is Guaranteed, it could be longer if the 3 studs resign
Am I?
Maybe I’m just unaware of what he exactly did and without specific details (which you’re welcome to share) it’ll be like most things where the man in the chair that gets the flowers.
If you have some insight as to his specific contributions as number 2, I’m interested to hear.
Well Jon Cooper for one
. Being their CBA/cap/negotiations guy he'd be the architect behind their awesome cap structure. Considering they didn't even think about going outside he clearly was trusted and valued by Yzerman and had the confidence of their superiors. That wouldn't have happened if he was some faceless peon nodding along with Stevie. Oh and he followed that up by winning a presidents trophy then a cup.Stop twisting man. You asked for 1, I gave you four. Even let you off the hook on BS about Roger f***ing Neilson and Sam f***ing Pollock being "before your time". It's Roger Neilson and Sam Pollock. Arguably the best coach and GM in the history of the league.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
Maybe I’m just unaware of what he exactly did and without specific details (which you’re welcome to share) it’ll be like most things where the man in the chair that gets the flowers.
If you have some insight as to his specific contributions as number 2, I’m interested to hear.
Dubas is a pretty big reason the Leafs have Hyman and Holl for one.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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Eh, inheriting the best group of elite ELC talent in the league was probably more responsible for putting them on the right track.
And him wasting the capspace those ELC contracts gave him is pretty much inexcusable from where I sit.
That post wasn't about Dubas, we've moved onto trying to invalidate the success of the reigning cup champion now.
What role did he play in Kucherov, Point, Gourde etc?Well Jon Cooper for one
Stop twisting man. You asked for 1, I gave you four. Even let you off the hook on BS about Roger f***ing Neilson and Sam f***ing Pollock being "before your time". It's Roger Neilson and Sam Pollock. Arguably the best coach and GM in the history of the league.
I’m sure he’s a smart guy, my question is whether he can assess and accumulate talent like Yzerman did. That was the biggest factor in winning, and that foundation was already there.
I mean, they are before my time? I had to google Sam Pollock and while I know Roger Neilson, I don’t know his story, style etc so it’s difficult for me to have an opinion. I’d literally just be googling it. I prefer to discuss what I know rather than what I need to search on the internet.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
That’s not true, either. I haven’t tried to invalidate anything, I just don’t know how much credit I give a guy who inherited the best defenseman, best goalie, top 3 winger and top 5 two way centre.
That seems like a race where he got to start on the final lap.
Yanni Gourde would be completely Brisebois as he was initially an AHL acquisition. The other two, what role did Yzerman play? Those were scouting decisions. In any case, discrediting it is irrelevant. Brisebois/Armstrong/Bowman have 5 of the last 12 cups without a game of major junior, NCAA, or pro hockey between them. Perhaps use that information to re-assess your prejudice against Dubas rather than argue against it.
If your thesis is "no one has had success coaching/managing at the NHL level without playing the game at a high level" having the best coach and GM of all time contradict that is a pretty big oversight.
Gary Nylund
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- Oct 10, 2013
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+1
I think maybe people have forgotten what a gong show this organization was before Lou arrived. I give him a ton of credit for almost instantly putting an end to all the nonsense.
I'm glad we had Lou when we did, I'm glad we have Dubas now instead of Lou but I feel no need to dump on Lou because his senility is about to make NYI go down the tubes, especially when that hasn't even happened yet.
Tampa was certainly on the final lap when he joined the organization as Yzerman's right hand in 2010.
BriseBois was hired as Lightning assistant GM less than two months after Yzerman was hired as GM.
Attempting to invalidate BriseBois is pretty damn weird lol.
The Iceman
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Gary Nylund
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Haha that was one thing he did that I thought was a bit out of touch, there were some heated arguments about that as I recall.
Dubas not being a former NHL player is likely a good thing. I am not saying you exclusively need people who are not part of the NHL game in leadership. But you need a mixture. Which is exactly what we have. Too often former NHL players that turn GM show unwavering loyalty to certain individuals in the organization. Whether that's a coach or underperforming player. Not to mention they usually carry an ego that can get in the way of logical decision making. Obviously this is not always the case, but it is more common in ex-player GM's. Dubas relies heavily on working as an organization, not as THE mastermind. What I mean by that is he lets the scouts scout, he lets the coaches coach, and he lets the players play. His job is to create an environment to allow those faculties to succeed and work together synchronously. This relies on those leaders in their respective faculties to not overstep their role. One huge reason for Babcock's departure was his insistence to essentially be GM/Coach. Wherein he would not play the players KD would specifically acquire. Some of which were specifically scouted by our Amateur and Pro scouts (ie. Holl), and some of which were signed by our GM (Ie. Spezza). Yes, Bab's job was to ice the team he felt was best suited to win any given game. But it is also his job to use the resources that were specifically accumulated for his disposal. When you don't, you essentially exude that you do not care about the work of the people who acquired them. I am sure the Pro Scouts who travel to butt f*** nowhere feel better about scouting a player like Justin Holl, knowing that they work in an organization that may give that kid a chance. That type of energy starts at the top, and needs to work its way down. Which is now the case with Sheldon in charge. Dubas worked very hard to get one of the most sought after jobs in hockey, and he relied on a lot of people's knowledge to help him get there. I am sure each and every person in the Leafs organization feels more responsible for the teams success under KD vs. any other regime. Because he at least seems willing to implement their findings/ideas. I can't obviously confirm this to be the case, it is purely speculative. But I am pretty confident I am not wrong. All I can confirm is that he is clearly not headstrong, and is more than willing to try a new approach when things are not working. A sign of a good leader
There’s no discrediting at all. You’re usually more honest than this. You’ve cited examples of teams with foundations already built because they fit with your opinion.
I can choose colours and finishes, but if the house was built when I got there, I don’t get credited as a builder. It’s not complicated.
Discussions like these work better if you try to understand what I’m saying rather than just twisting what I’ve said because you don’t agree.
Yeah. Also think it’s fair to say that he didn’t fit with the young core culturally. Time will tell whether the kids can find their own way, or if his disciplined and structured environment may have been what’s needed.
We’ll find out soon enough.
We aren't going to find that out. We'll have no idea if Lou would have gotten us better results. You'll just say so simply because it fits the narrative you want to have.
I've cited examples of inarguably successful NHL General Managers without CHL or NCAA playing experience.
"There's no discrediting, he just doesn't get credit"
Worth noting that the Islanders were in a 4 month free-fall and out of a playoff spot at the time of the league shutdown, while Lou's spending (in addition to Snow's) cost their team Toews and the ability to sign Barzal to a long-term deal. I digress.
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