Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part V (Lottery 04/09 8PM EST)

[GoAwayPanarin]

Of the top 10ish center prospects (Hughes, Dach, Cozens, Turcotte, Zegras, Newhook), Turcotte is the most likely to remain a center in my opinion.

I think Zegras becomes a wing and Hughes is 50/50z

Disagree completely.

His game is very straight line, tailor made for the wing and he doesn't see the ice as well as the other 2 (not that this is a requirement, its more of a nice to have at the position but worth noting.)

Hughes to me is a lock to be a center long term though I could totally see him starting at wing at the NHL level. Ditto Zegras.

Also think that Dach is 100000000% a center. Cozens is the other guy who probably ends up a wing.

 

[Ola]

I expected Kotkaniemi to go top-10 easily.

Once it was clear Montreal was targeting a center, Kotkaniemi was destined to go 3rd overall.

Yeah obviously, but mid-April nobody had him even remotely that high which was what we were talking about...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Mid April???

Yeah mid April.

He was a pretty late riser who jumped into the top 10 after the U-18's. IIRC he was ranked between 10-15 on most lists before the tournament.

There was some discussion of him with our first before the tournament, became more of a pipe dream after.

 

[Ola]

Not sure where that is coming Ola? Ive watched a lot of him. He is consistently one of the best players on the ice. I def see him as a very cerebral player who has skills and an edge to his game. He's a competitor.

I shouldn’t be posting in this thread, I’ve not seen enough of these kids. But I have too much time on my hands and can’t resist.

YT scouting, and what not, Krebs don’t blow me away. JMHO from the little I’ve seen... Don’t be surprised if I two months from now claim that Krebs should go top 3.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Mid April???

He was definitely top 15 by mid april, top 10 pretty much everywhere in the final lists.

 

[Ola]

Yeah mid April.

He was a pretty late riser who jumped into the top 10 after the U-18's. IIRC he was ranked between 10-15 on most lists before the tournament.

There was some discussion of him with our first before the tournament, became more of a pipe dream after.

Just for the record, the final of the U18 was played on the 29th April. No ranking post the U18 was announced when I made my ranking available. I clearly remember that Kotkaniemi was the kid I had the highest above some kind of consensus ranking at the time, and many thought I was nuts for having him as high as I did. Like you said many speculated that he even might be an option for us around 9-10, but that was seen as a big reach, nobody had him 6 or higher. If I remember correctly.

After that Kotkaniemi climbed a ton. On the eve of the draft everyone had him very high.

 

[Ola]

He was definitely top 15 by mid april, top 10 pretty much everywhere in the final lists.

Link?

 

[Ola]

He was definitely top 15 by mid april, top 10 pretty much everywhere in the final lists.

Have you been smoking again?? McKenzie mid season:

NHL Draft Ranking in March 2018 (Kotka is 15th):


CS had him 6th in Europe, behind Kaut, Ginning and co. No way he is top 15 in their combined:
https://www.tsn.ca/2018-nhl-cs-final-draft-ranking-international-skaters-1.1058386

Button had Kotkaniemi 26th:
https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-dahlin-cemented-top-status-at-world-juniors-1.962249

Fisher 17th:
https://thehockeywriters.com/2018-nhl-draft-midseason-rankings/

 

[pblawr]

Kotkaniemi was ranked around 10th - 20th for most of the season (we actually passed on him at #9 in the hfboards mock draft) and rose into the top 10 after being one of the best players at U18's with the Canadiens picking him at 3rd being expected by the draft.

What's more interesting for this thread is that Antti Saarela has posted pretty similar pre-draft numbers at a pretty similar age to Kotkaniemi (and Aho and Teravainan), but most draft publications have him in the late 2nd. I think he would be a really interesting target for the Rangers in the last 1st or early 2nd.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Way to keep it civil, you have issues.

I’m on my phone so can’t search for stuff, none of your links are from mid April.

Kotkaniemi was rising the entire spring, slowly but surely.

 

[pblawr]

Hell no. Right should be right, if you want to claim that Kotkaniemi was even ranked 10-15 by anyone mid April please send a link to it.

You guys can’t first thrash me for ranking him 6th and then when he goes 3rd claim that everyone had him top 10 Mid-April when as far as I remember nobody had him there. Maybe someone obscure had him 12 or 14 or something, but I don’t think so.

I think Tobbe has done crack cocaine as usual before posting.

I don't know about Mid-April. U18's started April 19 and ended April 29 and he rose after that, so if someone said Mid-April, I think they probably misspoke. But here are McKenzie's rankings after U18's (https://www.tsn.ca/kc-1.1115400) with Kotkaniemi at 5 and here is what McKenzie said:

"The No. 5 spot on TSN’s final rankings goes to Finnish centre Jesperi Kotkaniemi, who was No. 19 on the mid-season rankings and No. 10 on the draft lottery edition rankings. His strong performance at the World Under-18 Championships in April has vaulted him into the top five and provided this draft with something that it seemed to be missing all season long — a potential No. 1 centre."

Still, I think discussing Antti Saarela would be much more interesting and appropriate for this thread...

 

[TheBloodyNine]

You can't go wrong with Cozens or Byram at 3, just a matter of preference. I would lean towards Byram, but even if Gorton went with Cozens I would be ecstatic that we got a prospect like that.

Could not have said it better myself. Either would be a huge get for us and provide a home-grown player that we haven't had in quite some time.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Also, noone in this thread has trashed you for having him 6th? Really weird temper tantrum you’re throwing right now

 

[Ola]

Way to keep it civil, you have issues.

I’m on my phone so can’t search for stuff, none of your links are from mid April.

Kotkaniemi was rising the entire spring, slowly but surely.

OK but maybe you should do some research before posting crap in the future?

I sent links to the rankings available at the time I made my ranking available. It’s the latest version of McKenzies ranking, Buttons ranking and so forth as per that date. If you can find anyone who at that time had Kotkaniemi top 15 please send a link to it.

I think the problem is that you have an extremely selective memory. You want stuff to be a certain way and then you remember it that way. Facts are facts. I am gladly proven wrong and when I find something speaking against me I will be the first to post it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Button had Kotkaniemi top 10 in late March

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-bouchard-rocketing-up-draft-board-1.1031499

As you said, McKenzie had him at 15

CS did their rankings ahead of the U-18. Tough to say exactly where he would have fallen as he was 6th on the Euro list but yeah, this is one who didn't have him top 15 pre WJC most likely.

I dunno where some of the other major publications had him (Redline, FC, etc.) had him at this time.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

OK but maybe you should do some research before posting crap in the future?

I sent links to the rankings available at the time I made my ranking available. It’s the latest version of McKenzies ranking, Buttons ranking and so forth as per that date. If you can find anyone who at that time had Kotkaniemi top 15 please send a link to it.

I think the problem is that you have an extremely selective memory. You want stuff to be a certain way and then you remember it that way. Facts are facts. I am gladly proven wrong and when I find something speaking against me I will be the first to post it.

I said ”by mid April”, you gave me exactly 0 links from April. You posted no facts which contradicted my statement, you did however post a pretty severe attack on me.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Yeah mid April.

He was a pretty late riser who jumped into the top 10 after the U-18's. IIRC he was ranked between 10-15 on most lists before the tournament.

There was some discussion of him with our first before the tournament, became more of a pipe dream after.

Yep. I remember in early April when I saw him starting to go in the top 10 more often I asked the question on this board... "who the **** is Kotkaniemi and why do we want him". I proceeded to get a nice education from our posters

 

[Ola]

I said ”by mid April”, you gave me exactly 0 links from April. You posted no facts which contradicted my statement, you did however post a pretty severe attack on me.

Facts are fact Tobbe and the above makes no sense. Of course you check the latest version of everyone’s ranking if you talk about where a kid was ranked by mid April. You said everyone. Maybe Button had a recent ranking in which he had climbed. It’s not everyone. One is not everyone.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Yep. I remember in early April when I saw him starting to go in the top 10 more often I asked the question on this board... "who the **** is Kotkaniemi and why do we want him". I proceeded to get a nice education from our posters

Haha yeah, his play in Liiga had him rising before the U18s, wasn’t rocketing up or anything but slowly and surely climbed the lists

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Facts are fact Tobbe and the above makes no sense. Of course you check the latest version of everyone’s ranking if you talk about where a kid was ranked by mid April. You said everyone. Maybe Button had a recent ranking in which he had climbed. It’s not everyone. One is not everyone.

”Pretty much every list” quote from me, talking about facts. And i said mid April, not rankings from January-March, if you talk about facts, use them. Rankings are fluid and he was rising, by mid april he was top 15 pretty much everywhere from What i remember and you’ve given me No proof that suggests mu memory is off this time

 

[Ola]

Button had Kotkaniemi top 10 in late March

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-bouchard-rocketing-up-draft-board-1.1031499

As you said, McKenzie had him at 15

CS did their rankings ahead of the U-18. Tough to say exactly where he would have fallen as he was 6th on the Euro list but yeah, this is one who didn't have him top 15 pre WJC most likely.

I dunno where some of the other major publications had him (Redline, FC, etc.) had him at this time.

Yeah, and I of course remember this really well. When I checked my ranking against others when I made it available Kotkaniemi was one I really went on a limb on. I think I checked Eliteprospects because they have those summaries where everyone is ranked.

Of course it’s annoying when someone jumps in and claims that “everyone” had him at that range. Nope, as far as I remember nobody did. But you are right, Button de facto had him 10th. The internet is a wonderful thing in that sense — it got an history.

Sorry for the OT stuff, I’ll leave it as this.

 

[Ola]

”Pretty much every list” quote from me, talking about facts. And i said mid April, not rankings from January-March, if you talk about facts, use them. Rankings are fluid and he was rising, by mid april he was top 15 pretty much everywhere from What i remember and you’ve given me No proof that suggests mu memory is off this time

Just stop it, he was rising? OK show me where. Send a link to a ranking that he was rising on. We have one, Button. I wasn’t aware of that one. He was 10th.

Of course everyone thought he had risen after McKenzie has him what 5th on 18 June. That has nothing to do with it.

What did you say in your reply, you are wrong everyone had him top 10 [edit top 15]. I am sorry you can make as many personal attacks you want. I’ve yet to see anyone have him inside the top 10.

Wouldn’t you be confused in my place? Sometimes you can just say, OK my mistake or whatever. Not always revert to fluid facts or whatever. Or prove me wrong.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Just stop it, he was rising? OK show me where. Send a link to a ranking that he was rising on. We have one, Button. I wasn’t aware of that one. He was 10th.

Of course everyone thought he had risen after McKenzie has him what 5th on 18 June. That has nothing to do with it.

What did you say in your reply, you are wrong everyone had him top 10. I am sorry you can make as many personal attacks you want. I’ve yet to see anyone have him inside the top 10.

Wouldn’t you be confused in my place?

I already told you that i’m on my phone and not really in a position to search for stuff, so i’m not doing that. Feel free to show me up if you have the time for it. The Button ranking is the only one from April i’ve seen, the only relevant one.

I never said any June (or May) ranking was relevant ‍

The personal attacks have been all from you.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Have you been smoking again?? McKenzie mid season:
View attachment 205041

NHL Draft Ranking in March 2018 (Kotka is 15th):


CS had him 6th in Europe, behind Kaut, Ginning and co. No way he is top 15 in their combined:
https://www.tsn.ca/2018-nhl-cs-final-draft-ranking-international-skaters-1.1058386

Button had Kotkaniemi 26th:
https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-dahlin-cemented-top-status-at-world-juniors-1.962249

Fisher 17th:
2018 NHL Draft: Fisher’s Top 93 Midseason Rankings

All those links except one are before mid-April

 

[Lion Hound]

Button had Kotkaniemi top 10 in late March

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-bouchard-rocketing-up-draft-board-1.1031499

As you said, McKenzie had him at 15

CS did their rankings ahead of the U-18. Tough to say exactly where he would have fallen as he was 6th on the Euro list but yeah, this is one who didn't have him top 15 pre WJC most likely.

I dunno where some of the other major publications had him (Redline, FC, etc.) had him at this time.

Redline had him #12, 1 spot behind Kravtsov.
Blackbook had him #8
FC had him at #13