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Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part V (Lottery 04/09 8PM EST)

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Again, reading what other fans are saying on their team boards, Zegras is ahead or even with Dach in a lot of the comments.

Good to see Nikolaev get some talk, I think I've been the only one saying he's my late first-round pick if we get that Tampa 1st. He may not be in the same category as the top centers but he's awfully close.
 
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It's his view... he can have his opinions. He might not be overly concerned with watching MHL games considering 95% of his readers are probably North American, and the higher ranked guys are usually in tournaments. Do we really think he's picking out obscure minor league teams in Eastern Europe to watch guys that many project as mid round picks?
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Every year, I have that one player that just catches my attention. Last year it was Kravtsov, this year it's Dorofeyev. By no means is that player the best but I do like them and share my expectations of where I see them being picked. With Kravtsov, I expected him to go 7-15, with Dorofeyev I have said 15-25. Different projections.



Not sure what you are referring to. The only thing related to both Button and Clark I mentioned is how I think it's interesting to see players drop significantly (Wahlstrom, Wilde) despite being ranked high by guys like Pronman, McKenzie and Button, while others (Kravtsov comes to mind) went significantly higher compared to the rankings by these 3.



How does he have Gutik ranked but not Dorofeyev? That makes no sense to me. At all. How has he watched enough of Gutik, but not Dorofeyev?
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My recollection is that after Button ranked Kravtsov as his #1 prospect, Clarke did an interview where he said he respected Button's rankings bc he had been an NHL GM and actually traveled to see the games in person. Then you shared a post about how Clarke told you he thought you had to go scout players in person so you could see that what they did away from the puck or something to that effect.

I think Dorofeyev had very good hands and a very good shot and competes well, but my impression is that Kravtsov's skating and creativity / passing are on a different level than Dorofeyev's. It seems to me like there's some risk that Dorofeyev's skating could be an obstacle to him making it at the NHL level.
 
The truth is we have an idea of the risers and fallers until we are much closer.

In the meantime, there will be guys who are supposedly rising, guys who are supposedly falling, and a lot of strong emotions expressed about things that none of us have actual control over.

Still have three months until the draft. Things will change multiple times.
 
I distinctly remember Button ranking Couturier at like 6 back in 2011 and everyone on this board (well the draft forum not the Rangers board) freaking out about him being too low.

We know where Couturier ended up being picked.

Anyway, my point is that while Button’s rankings may seem stupid (and honestly, they very well may be), he has a pulse on the NHL that (most) posters here don’t have, which can make his rankings accurate in terms of where a player will actually go.
 
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Bluenote13 said:
Again, reading what other fans are saying on their team boards, Zegras is ahead or even with Dach in a lot of the comments.

Good to see Nikolaev get some talk, I think I've been the only one saying he's my late first-round pick if we get that Tampa 1st. He may not be in the same category as the top centers but he's awfully close.
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The only thing I am fairly certain of is the first two picks. After that, I feel like there’s a wide range of possibilities.

Right now, if someone pinned me down on the most likely top 5, I’d say Hughes, Kakko, Podkolzin, Byram and Cozens.
 
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Edge said:
Zegras has a legit shot to go higher than some realize. Though it all depends on who is picking where.

I can’t see Dach falling to 15. Not unless he has a Ryan Getzlaf like draft day fall. In that case, whoever gets him is going to be doing cartwheels.
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Could easily envision Dach falling, skating ability so heavily affects who a team picks.

On another note, to me, it’s starting to get to the point where skating ability is somewhat overrated.
 
Edge said:
The funny thing though is every year he takes a beating on here, and most years he’s a lot closer to the final draft result than people realize.
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Commentary on who is in and who is out, if it is anything remotely close to what will be available on draft day, looking at the players that would be available to the Rangers, I would be ecstatic.
 
MahomesIsGod said:
I distinctly remember Button ranking Couturier at like 6 back in 2011 and everyone on this board (well the draft forum not the Rangers board) freaking out about him being too low.

We know where Couturier ended up being picked.

Anyway, my point is that while Button’s rankings may seem stupid (and honestly, they very well may be), he has a pulse on the NHL that (most) posters here don’t have, which can make his rankings accurate in terms of where a player will actually go.
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And that’s it. I’m not really looking to debate whether Button is a moron or a mad genius.

But more than any other site, if someone is looking for a feel for how things might actually go, or are shaping up, TSN tends to have the best track record.

So when everyone starts looking for mock drafts in the coming weeks, I’d suggest taking a look at what TSN does. Because whether we like it or not, it does give us at least a little peak into how teams are approaching things.
 
pblawr said:
My recollection is that after Button ranked Kravtsov as his #1 prospect, Clarke did an interview where he said he respected Button's rankings bc he had been an NHL GM and actually traveled to see the games in person. Then you shared a post about how Clarke told you he thought you had to go scout players in person so you could see that what they did away from the puck or something to that effect.

I think Dorofeyev had very good hands and a very good shot and competes well, but my impression is that Kravtsov's skating and creativity / passing are on a different level than Dorofeyev's. It seems to me like there's some risk that Dorofeyev's skating could be an obstacle to him making it at the NHL level.
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Ah. Yes, I did have a conversation about rankings with Gordie Clark where he said that rankings aren't something teams take into consideration. They just don't look at it. Every team has its own list. Has their own internal rankings. Clark travels a lot, to see all our current prospects and to see new targets I mentioned I see different things when watching them in person, which you just don't see on TV. I always like to sit behind the bench, to read the player's body language as they come back to the bench. To see which players sit together, how they respond to a bad shift etc.

That didn't have anything to do with Button though. Regarding Dorofeyev: I think he will go in the 1st round, but no one will ever claim Dorofeyev is as good as Kravtsov. That's just not the case. But they are very similar in style
 
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MahomesIsGod said:
Could easily envision Dach falling, skating ability so heavily affects who a team picks.

On another note, to me, it’s starting to get to the point where skating ability is somewhat overrated.
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I think Dach’s skating issues are overblown.

Having said that, this is the time of year where the guys who have been on the radar the longest start facing intense scrutiny.

I’ve often felt like being consistently ranked in that 4-8 range throughout the year is a difficult spot for prospects.

You don’t get the praise of the top 2 or 3, but you don’t have the exciting new star feel of the late risers.

As a result, every one starts really focusing on potential flaws and concerns and these kids usually get shredded pretty good before all is forgiven when a team drafts them.

As for skating, it’s important but it can become a bit of a red herring. I tend to look at how a player utilizes his tools and whether that seems more likely to translate to the pro game.
 
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Edge said:
I think Dach’s skating issues are overblown.

Having said that, this is the time of year where the guys who have been on the radar the longest start facing intense scrutiny.

I’ve often felt like being consistently ranked in that 4-8 range throughout the year is a difficult spot for prospects.

You don’t get the praise of the top 2 or 3, but you don’t have the exciting new star feel of the late risers.

As a result, every one starts really focusing on potential flaws and concerns and these kids usually get shredded pretty good before all is forgiven when a team drafts them.

As for skating, it’s important but it can become a bit of a red herring. I tend to look at how a player utilizes his tools and whether that seems more likely to translate to the pro game.
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I see Dach's skating similar to Zibs..

He's not a burner but it's not a negative IMO
 
Didn't Button have Kravstov off his list this time last year for the same reason?

He had K'Andre at #56.

Still 3 months to go ;)
 
MahomesIsGod said:
Could easily envision Dach falling, skating ability so heavily affects who a team picks.

On another note, to me, it’s starting to get to the point where skating ability is somewhat overrated.
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It isn't overrated, but I think Dach's skating is underrated.

He doesn't move like Cozens, but he gets around alright.
 
Bluenote13 said:
And if you took the consensus ranking of Kravstov this time last year he wouldn't have been a first-rounder.

There is still three months to go before this draft.....
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This is why I don't really care about rankings like this. McKenzie had Kravtsov at 39. This happens every year. They do not see enough to rank EU prospects so what's the point?
 
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duhmetreE said:
I'm usually indifferent when it comes to prospects, as long as it benefits the team, but I really want Caufield to be a Ranger.
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If one had a mid round extra pick, then you can make a case for him, depending on who else is on the board. However, looking at where their first pick will be, there is almost no justification for taking him so high.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
This is why I don't really care about rankings like this. McKenzie had Kravtsov at 39. This happens every year. They do not see enough to rank EU prospects so what's the point?
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Just want to say in this specific example ‘McKenzie’s’ Kravtsov ranking could have been affected by asking a scout of a team or teams that don’t take Russians playing in Russia, thus skewing the average
 
GeorgeKaplan said:
Just want to say in this specific example ‘McKenzie’s’ Kravtsov ranking could have been affected by asking a scout of a team or teams that don’t take Russians playing in Russia, thus skewing the average
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The reason behind it doesn't matter.

Whether it's "Asking scouts of a team that won't take Russians" or "Not having seen enough of this or that player". It skews the rankings which, to me at least, makes it worthless
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
The reason behind it doesn't matter.

Whether it's "Asking scouts of a team that won't take Russians" or "Not having seen enough of this or that player". It skews the rankings which, to me at least, makes it worthless
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Pretty much this. Bob gets his ranking from who he talks to. Remember the draft day talk on Kravtsov that someone had him near the top 5 and Bob pushed him up to around where we were picking? Have to think Bob's rankings are coming from teams shying away from Russian players.

Button just doesn't see the top EU guys, with the exception of the WJC. He should be watching and getting reports from guys who should be cracking the 1st round in the SEL/Liiga/KHL/MHL/etc. @ManUtdTobbe is correct that it's his job and he is failing at it.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
The reason behind it doesn't matter.

Whether it's "Asking scouts of a team that won't take Russians" or "Not having seen enough of this or that player". It skews the rankings which, to me at least, makes it worthless
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The thing is: they’re all worthless, but we’re all going to argue about them anyway
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
The reason behind it doesn't matter.

Whether it's "Asking scouts of a team that won't take Russians" or "Not having seen enough of this or that player". It skews the rankings which, to me at least, makes it worthless
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McKenzie was also a guy who talked about teams liking Kravtsov higher in the draft as well, especially as it got closer.

If anyone’s looking for the Philsopher’s Stone, there’s none to be found.

For people looking for an insight into how thoughts evolve and how things are shaping up for approaches, that’s where TSN can have its uses.
 
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