Fitzgerald has his old PIT connections and his Boston area connections and Walsh was teammates with Marino at Harvard. Presumably Fitzgerald has some idea of who he’s added to the team.
Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III
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Gurglesons
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Ty Smith and John Marino's performance last season is nowhere close, Smith was awful by every measure and earned the fans' ire nightly as well. He's still only 4 years removed from being drafted in the middle of the first round though, and he has a cheap year left on his contract. I think he's a smart player who has obvious physical limitations, but if his skating stays where it was last season, he has no chance of being a decent NHL regular.
Andre Palot
Registered User
I still believe that at 22 years old it's entirely too quick to write off Ty Smith as this massive underperformer or even worse, a 'bust'..
What I will say, and I always felt this way, is that the organization, perhaps out of necessity brought Ty up way too quickly. As we all know, defensemen simply develop at a slower rate vs forwards. I felt he would have benefited staying in the AHL for a couple years. That said, we got a strong return for Ty so it's not like I'm complaining.
What I will say, and I always felt this way, is that the organization, perhaps out of necessity brought Ty up way too quickly. As we all know, defensemen simply develop at a slower rate vs forwards. I felt he would have benefited staying in the AHL for a couple years. That said, we got a strong return for Ty so it's not like I'm complaining.
njdevils1982
Hell Toupée!!!
he looked like he had promise on the left with severson in his first season.....oh well.
be sure to drink your ovaltine ty
Ty Smith didn't belong in the AHL. He came up in 20-21 and played 20 minutes a game and was fine. The minor leagues are not for developing a player like Ty Smith - if he goes to the AHL this year, it'll just be because he wasn't good enough to make the Penguins' roster.
Eggtimer
Registered User
Ok ,this Marino stuff is depressing . I was excited swap him out for Ty and thought it would be a pretty big upgrade for us defensively… What’s an unbiased take on his game? Is he soft or not very physical?
I always thought he was at least average defensively and would be vey good as the RHD on our third pair and could hold his own on a second pairing if there are injuries (and we don’t want to rush Nemec).
How was Marino used in Pitt? Was he considered 2nd or 3rd pair ? I cannot see him beping out out against the opposing teams top line ,or is that possibly the plan? See Marino as the more defensive guy , amd use whoever he is partnered with as shit down pairing late in a game or ???
I habe to look up how he was deployed in Pitt ( PK1 / PK2 / Icetie compared to thier other pairs)
I woild hope he does more than fine on our third pair. Cannot be worse than Subban and Ty.
I always thought he was at least average defensively and would be vey good as the RHD on our third pair and could hold his own on a second pairing if there are injuries (and we don’t want to rush Nemec).
How was Marino used in Pitt? Was he considered 2nd or 3rd pair ? I cannot see him beping out out against the opposing teams top line ,or is that possibly the plan? See Marino as the more defensive guy , amd use whoever he is partnered with as shit down pairing late in a game or ???
I habe to look up how he was deployed in Pitt ( PK1 / PK2 / Icetie compared to thier other pairs)
I woild hope he does more than fine on our third pair. Cannot be worse than Subban and Ty.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Go on vacation come back and see everyone is staying consistent.
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“Marino has been traded twice because of reported behind the scenes issues.”
Wait, wasn’t he just a NCAA player who used the threat of staying in school/becoming a UFA as a way to force a trade? Is there more “reported behind the scenes issues” than “didn’t want to play for Edmonton”?
I mean, Adam Fox is only 24 and he’s on his third NHL team too.
In fact he forced a trade from Carolina to the bright lights of Broadway, the same year that Marino muscled his way to Pittsburgh. From the same school no less.
They do it because they can. If there are other rumors feel free spill the tea but I don’t see how the trade to Pittsburgh was nefarious. Unless you find all NCAA prospects who dumped their original teams nefarious.
I don’t know what to expect. Graves was a bit of a hot mess too, Fitz likes mobility.
Here are some 2022 Athletic article’s analyzing his game for people who subscribe:
Marshall: John Marino is offensively deficient, but the Penguins shouldn’t trade him
John Marino has been the central focus of some trade talk as the deadline looms. What's been going on with his game this season?
theathletic.com
Should John Marino be a Canucks trade target? Analyzing fit and potential cost
Should the Canucks revisit Marino as a trade target this summer? Harman Dayal dives in.
theathletic.com
This is a 2020 article with his back story, with a Reilly Walsh appearance. (They were paired together in his last season at Harvard.)
John Marino didn’t come out of nowhere, and here’s the dented dryer to prove it
Rookie defenseman John Marino has been a pleasant surprise for the Penguins this season. His backstory is one of a kind.
theathletic.com
Gurglesons
Registered User
Yeah I agree a ton with a lot of this.“Marino has been traded twice because of reported behind the scenes issues.”
Wait, wasn’t he just a NCAA player who used the threat of staying in school/becoming a UFA as a way to force a trade? Is there more “reported behind the scenes issues” than “didn’t want to play for Edmonton”?
I mean, Adam Fox is only 24 and he’s on his third NHL team too.
In fact he forced a trade from Carolina to the bright lights of Broadway, the same year that Marino muscled his way to Pittsburgh. From the same school no less.
They do it because they can. If there are other rumors feel free spill the tea but I don’t see how the trade to Pittsburgh was nefarious. Unless you find all NCAA prospects who dumped their original teams nefarious.
I don’t know what to expect. Graves was a bit of a hot mess too, Fitz likes mobility.
Here are some 2022 Athletic article’s analyzing his game for people who subscribe:
Marshall: John Marino is offensively deficient, but the Penguins shouldn’t trade him
John Marino has been the central focus of some trade talk as the deadline looms. What's been going on with his game this season?
Should John Marino be a Canucks trade target? Analyzing fit and potential cost
Should the Canucks revisit Marino as a trade target this summer? Harman Dayal dives in.
This is a 2020 article with his back story, with a Reilly Walsh appearance. (They were paired together in his last season at Harvard.)
John Marino didn’t come out of nowhere, and here’s the dented dryer to prove it
Rookie defenseman John Marino has been a pleasant surprise for the Penguins this season. His backstory is one of a kind.
As I alluded to Marshall who is the first article is the best Penguins beat mind and he is the one filtering these ideas that he lost patience with the coaching staff.
He has every right to exercise his rights like Fox. But something’s up with this kid. Hope it works out, but like I said I’m stoked that we got out of that contract and actually got something that could be used as value.
better?
hamilton is the better offensive dman no question. but after his injury the pp looked better with severson. hamilton is also a liability against the rush and is not physical despite all his size. severson has a better balanced game and was used heavily 5:5, pp and pk. his bad rep comes from the awful gaffes, he is notorious for. if his bad decisions are related to very long shifts, i can't say with any confidence, but some definitely happened at the end of longer shifts.
executing your defensive assignments, when you still have energy is definitely easier, than when you are running out of gas.
we can save around 6-8 million cap by using gillies and the hamburglar as our goalie tandem.
dougie has a full nmc for the next three seasons, which complicates any trade scenario. approaching hamilton to waive it now, could end up with a bad rep among agents. only way i can see a hamilton trade happen, if he asks for a trade.
i hope the team won't be soooo bad and i can't believe hamilton will get relegated to a third pairing role without pp time, that he considers this. an expansion team in paris could obviously have an impact.
josi just had his best season at the age of 31 and could have easily won a second norris trophy. 32 isn't too old. it all depends on dougie's drive and health to remain on top of his game. experience can compensate for a lot.
The thing you're missing is that Ruff plays a 'swarm' defense that is different from all the other NHL teams.
Guys like Marino should outperform playing for Ruff.
Guys like Smith underperform playing for him.
For example, your biggest issue about net front play isn't as relevant because the Devils commonly use a forward in that spot.
Smith will see a big bump in performance but Marino should as well. It was a solid trade mainly because Lindy Ruff coaches the Devils.
I think if we wait and see for ourselves we will get better answers. It's too easy for someone to trash a player with a post on the internet and in the end you only have their opinion anyway. I was impressed with him in the games I saw him play for Pittsburgh over the past couple of years.
The Athletic article from the TDL in March 2022 shared by @Guttersniped painted a picture of a mobile defender who can exit the zone and play good defense but lost his confidence and had bad decision making at the offensive blue line. That's a flawed but serviceable player. Presumably NJ thinks they can help with the offensive play at the blue line. He doesn't need to be great, just competent. For this upcoming season he's a third pair defender most likely unless injuries strike.
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1. I agree with this. All discussions re: defense are premature until we see everyone play together
2. I think the underlying points from @Gurglesons are reasonable - Marino isn't a big physical guy, and he doesn't provide a ton of offense. That kind of player needs to do well in the neutral zone. He'll get exposed along the boards or in the crease. Which is what @Gurglesons said.
3. I hope we're not brining in people to fit Ruff's "swarm" D. I'd like to see that gone as soon as Ruff is out of here.
4. I think the real attractiveness of Marino is his contract: he only has 4 years left with a manageable cap even if he ends up on the 3rd pair. He can be third pair this year, 2nd pair next, then maybe back to 3rd pair. Maybe Marino's deal is a year too long, but getting a 2nd pair D with this kind of contract flexibility is hard. This is where the Devils are stuck with Severson - no way he signs a 3 year deal. With the Devils already committed to Hamilton and then needing to at least acknowledge the potential of Nemec, they can't afford to commit to another RD long term.
Are you so sure we're still sticking with that D system? How much of that was Nas? Did Ruff play the same D on the other teams he coached?
We kept Ty in Juniors in his +2 year after he had a huge +1 year. So early on we were more conservative then aggressive. Could we have put him in the AHL in his +3? I guess, but as noted above, he was OK in his +3 in the NHL, it was his +4 year where his play became concerning.
So I don't think rushing him was a problem here.
Now one does wonder why he was OK as an NHL rookie but less so in his 2nd year. Without digging in I'm pretty sure usage played into it. I also think the scouting reports got out there. He's not a good skater, teams found ways to exploit that, both when he was defending, but also when he had the puck, especially in his own zone. Pressure his area, and you're likely to win battles.
Maybe in time, his skating improves a bit, or maybe his smarts help overcome his deficiencies, maybe just getting more comfortable with the speed of the game helps, but if he is ever to succeed in this league it will be as a more offensive minded d-man, and I think small, poor skating offensive, minded d-men are fringy players at best.
They're not reasonable, he claimed that Ty Smith and John Marino were not far apart last year, which is absurd. If they're not far apart, the Devils made a horrendous trade, because Marino is under the same number of years of team control but is way more expensive, plus the Devils added a 3rd round pick. I also don't think Marino will be exposed along the boards or in the crease - he is NHL average in size.
This conflicts with point #2, the swarm defense means more D play along the boards.
Marino has 5 years left and the deal expires just after he turns 30, it's fine. It can certainly go wrong, but it's rare to be able to trade for this sort of contract.
Cheddabombs
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Yeah I think Smith is basically Butcher 2.0 to be honest. He probably skates a bit better but not good enough. At least from what we've seen and he obviously can try to work on it.
The point about different usage factoring into a worse 2nd year is totally fair in my opinion. I think he'd do much better with a reliable defensive partner and good powerplay time. But long term the situation would only get worse for him as Luke and Nemac enter the league, he would've been squeezed out eventually.
This move just gives us more balance and is an approach to actually build a cohesive defense. Not only this year but moving forward, I think Marino and Smith would likely be 3rd pairing guys for us. And the choice between them, given the rest of the defense, pretty clearly favours Marino for me at least.
RangerDoggo
The Devils have a culture of failure
Totally gonna trust the same Pittsburgh media that did Kessel dirty on his way out.
I don't know those details, but Kessel's reputation wasn't great going into Pitt, and I don't think he's done much in Zona to suggest all the dirty rumors were unfounded.
Gurglesons
Registered User
They didn’t really do too much to Kessel.
It was obvious him and Sullivan had tension from day one tbh. Silly admits as much in his chapter in Behind the Benches.
Realistically Jesse Marshall is the best media guy for the Pens and one of the best media guys in the league. He’s on record saying the staff was fed up with Marino. Which is weird because Reirden has been a defense whisper for a decade plus.
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