Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[Hockey Sports Fan]

This I 100% agree with - However to me I think the decision is actually between Hamilton and Severson, rather than Marino and Severson!

We better hope Hamilton plays well enough this season that he’s even considered a trade-able asset afterward. Another year like last year and, fair or not, he’ll be near the top of all the “worst contracts in the league” articles.

 

[devilsblood]

Yeah I think Smith is basically Butcher 2.0 to be honest. He probably skates a bit better but not good enough. At least from what we've seen and he obviously can try to work on it.

The point about different usage factoring into a worse 2nd year is totally fair in my opinion. I think he'd do much better with a reliable defensive partner and good powerplay time. But long term the situation would only get worse for him as Luke and Nemac enter the league, he would've been squeezed out eventually.

This move just gives us more balance and is an approach to actually build a cohesive defense. Not only this year but moving forward, I think Marino and Smith would likely be 3rd pairing guys for us. And the choice between them, given the rest of the defense, pretty clearly favours Marino for me at least.

I don't see Smith as a high end PP guy, and 2nd pair pp guys just isn't that valuable.

Ability to play the PK, which Smith has not shown he can do, is much more important than being an OK pp guy.

But yeah, very Butcher like player. And while I thought Butcher showed he can be a 5v5 weapon in a protected role, the above, ie not great on the pp, and unable to play pk, makes for a very limitied use player.

They didn’t really do too much to Kessel.

It was obvious him and Sullivan had tension from day one tbh. Silly admits as much in his chapter in Behind the Benches.

Realistically Jesse Marshall is the best media guy for the Pens and one of the best media guys in the league. He’s on record saying the staff was fed up with Marino. Which is weird because Reirden has been a defense whisper for a decade plus.

Fed up why?

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't see Smith as a high end PP guy, and 2nd pair pp guys just isn't that valuable.

Ability to play the PK, which Smith has not shown he can do, is much more important than being an OK pp guy.

But yeah, very Butcher like player. And while I thought Butcher showed he can be a 5v5 weapon in a protected role, the above, ie not great on the pp, and unable to play pk, makes for a very limitied use player.


Fed up why?

They apparently were coaching him on his zone entries and puck handling and he was not responding.



Pretty sure it’s discussed here?

 

[tailfins]

Marino has 5 years left and the deal expires just after he turns 30, it's fine. It can certainly go wrong, but it's rare to be able to trade for this sort of contract.

Thanks - somehow I thought it was 4. I agree with you, though - even at 5 years, I think the contract works for the Devils.

If Nemec proves himself over the next three years, though, I do think the chances are higher Marino gets moved before the end of the deal. I don't think the Devils will want to spend $4.4 million (in cap space) on a third pair D for multiple years.

But, a lot of road to be traveled before we get to that bridge...

 

[devilsblood]

They apparently were coaching him on his zone entries and puck handling and he was not responding.



Pretty sure it’s discussed here?

Without listening, was it merely a matter of inability? It would be pretty rare to have a guy who is reluctant to play a more offensive game.

But given Hamilton and the assumption of Nemec's arrival in within the next couple years, I think everyone here would be perfectly fine if Marino proves to be a limited skills, defensively oriented guy. Especially if he proves to be a guy who we can rely on to be our #1 right handed PK'r.

 

[Gurglesons]

Without listening, was it merely a matter of inability? It would be pretty rare to have a guy who is reluctant to play a more offensive game.

But given Hamilton and the assumption of Nemec's arrival in within the next couple years, I think everyone here would be perfectly fine if Marino proves to be a limited skills, defensively oriented guy. Especially if he proves to be a guy who we can rely on to be our #1 right handed PK'r.

No. Marino flashed offensive skills in his rookie season then proceeded to score two goals over two seasons.

I’m pretty sure even the stats that flatter him show Marino was relatively awful on the PK. As I said, he’s awful below the circles so the PK is not where he is good. He needs to stop the play before it enters the zone which he is absolutely fantastic at.

 

[bossram]

Without listening, was it merely a matter of inability? It would be pretty rare to have a guy who is reluctant to play a more offensive game.

But given Hamilton and the assumption of Nemec's arrival in within the next couple years, I think everyone here would be perfectly fine if Marino proves to be a limited skills, defensively oriented guy. Especially if he proves to be a guy who we can rely on to be our #1 right handed PK'r.

Yeah, looking at Marino's video and microstats, I think he has tools to "activate" more (which is likely what PIT's coaches wanted), but his instincts aren't as inclined to do that and usually opts for the safe play.

Luckily in NJ, he'll be asked to primarily be a defensive conscience.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Boston goal was particularly awesome in his rookie year.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

keep in mind that NJ does not need Marino to be the top shutdown DMan...they have Siegenthaler for that role

 

[My3Sons]

No. Marino flashed offensive skills in his rookie season then proceeded to score two goals over two seasons.

I’m pretty sure even the stats that flatter him show Marino was relatively awful on the PK. As I said, he’s awful below the circles so the PK is not where he is good. He needs to stop the play before it enters the zone which he is absolutely fantastic at.

View attachment 582432

I'm not sure what about his game would make him so terrible in the lower part of the defensive zone? You don't have to be a bruiser to play sound positioning and use your stick properly, especially on the PK where you aren't tangling up with the forwards that often since you need to cover your zone in the defensive box. Just odd. He's obviously a smart enough guy having gone to Harvard and if he can defend above the goal line he's talented enough to apply his ability in other parts of the ice. Just strange if true.

 

[Eggtimer]

“Marino has been traded twice because of reported behind the scenes issues.”

Wait, wasn’t he just a NCAA player who used the threat of staying in school/becoming a UFA as a way to force a trade? Is there more “reported behind the scenes issues” than “didn’t want to play for Edmonton”?

I mean, Adam Fox is only 24 and he’s on his third NHL team too.

In fact he forced a trade from Carolina to the bright lights of Broadway, the same year that Marino muscled his way to Pittsburgh. From the same school no less.

They do it because they can. If there are other rumors feel free spill the tea but I don’t see how the trade to Pittsburgh was nefarious. Unless you find all NCAA prospects who dumped their original teams nefarious.

I don’t know what to expect. Graves was a bit of a hot mess too, Fitz likes mobility.

Here are some 2022 Athletic article’s analyzing his game for people who subscribe:

Marshall: John Marino is offensively deficient, but the Penguins shouldn’t trade him

John Marino has been the central focus of some trade talk as the deadline looms. What's been going on with his game this season?

theathletic.com

Should John Marino be a Canucks trade target? Analyzing fit and potential cost

Should the Canucks revisit Marino as a trade target this summer? Harman Dayal dives in.

theathletic.com

This is a 2020 article with his back story, with a Reilly Walsh appearance. (They were paired together in his last season at Harvard.)

John Marino didn’t come out of nowhere, and here’s the dented dryer to prove it

Rookie defenseman John Marino has been a pleasant surprise for the Penguins this season. His backstory is one of a kind.

theathletic.com

My favourite part from the Athletic article is :

” His ability to retrieve pucks from the defensive zone and skate them out of danger is in the 98th percentile for defensemen this season. That is elite company.”

Ill take that . Says his offence went missing and he was having issues deciding when to pinch and activate in the offensive zone. But , he did do well at that before so it’s not like he is incapable of doing so.
If given a good partner , I think we will be way better in our own end at the very least. If he struggles offensively , we have D partners that can carry the load.
In my opinion , we needed to improve on overall defence from both forwards and D and we did that with Palat Haula Marino Amd hopefully the goalies.

The Athletic article from the TDL in March 2022 shared by @Guttersniped painted a picture of a mobile defender who can exit the zone and play good defense but lost his confidence and had bad decision making at the offensive blue line. That's a flawed but serviceable player. Presumably NJ thinks they can help with the offensive play at the blue line. He doesn't need to be great, just competent. For this upcoming season he's a third pair defender most likely unless injuries strike.

Yes , I read the athletic article and says he was good defensively , and for now thats what I am most concerned with . He should be a huge upgrade over Ty Smith and Subban , everyone slots in pretty good . Marino on the third pair should be very good no?

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not sure what about his game would make him so terrible in the lower part of the defensive zone? You don't have to be a bruiser to play sound positioning and use your stick properly, especially on the PK where you aren't tangling up with the forwards that often since you need to cover your zone in the defensive box. Just odd. He's obviously a smart enough guy having gone to Harvard and if he can defend above the goal line he's talented enough to apply his ability in other parts of the ice. Just strange if true.

He’s relatively small. He gets absolutely bullied net front and along the boards.

And not by like big guys either.

Here’s two examples.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I truly think getting Marino made the perfect scenario for us moving forward. This year he can be a 3rd pairing guy behind Hamilton and Severson, giving us some more stability in that role. Then after this year we'll likely move on from Severson, with Nemac hopefully ready to start his career. Marino can take more of a 2nd pairing role if Nemac is ready for that but hopefully he can take the reigns soon after moving Marino back to the 3rd pair.

Then on the left side we have Siegs locked up long term with Luke waiting in the wings, while Graves is a stop gap this year much like Severson. 3rd pair is more up in the air but we have a number of guys that could take that spot, with Smith being a safety net option.

Very happy with how the defense is shaping up.

 

[Lou is God]

He’s relatively small. He gets absolutely bullied net front and along the boards.

And not by like big guys either.

Here’s two examples.

We get it man, you hate Marino.

 

[Bleedred]

He’s relatively small. He gets absolutely bullied net front and along the boards.

And not by like big guys either.

Here’s two examples.

Goal 1 was a TRASH goal on Jarry. Just stunk out loud.

How many of the 8 Louis Domingue softies was Marino on the ice for this past playoffs?

 

[Cheddabombs]

He’s relatively small. He gets absolutely bullied net front and along the boards.

And not by like big guys either.

Here’s two examples.

These don't seem that bad? First one he wasn't really bullied, looked like a pretty normal play to close out Palms but he lost his balance leaving his guy open. Unless he loses his balance a lot I guess.

2nd video again he doesn't really get bullied, looks like he wins the battle even but his pass hits his teammate. Maybe he should've flung it around the boards instead but there was a Rangers player on that side and down the middle did seem more open to be fair. Just a bit unlucky and could've been a better pass too.

 

[My3Sons]

He’s relatively small. He gets absolutely bullied net front and along the boards.

And not by like big guys either.

Here’s two examples.

Thanks for sharing those thoughts. That said, those plays are nothing special to my eyes. He slows down Palmieri and gets him to dump the puck. He loses his balance backing up after that and Palmieri goes to the open space. Zib makes a nice pass on the backhand and Marino should have tried to cut him off but it's a quick play and it's not like Marino gets run over he just doesn't get there quick enough to do anything - maybe that's a decision making issue. If that's him at his worst it's hardly great but NJ has seen much worse defending the past few years. Most second or third pairing defenders probably make a play similar to those every game. If the goalie makes the save in either spot or the shot goes wide or high it's forgotten. Something tells me he was being overused in PIT by the end.

We get it man, you hate Marino.

To be fair, I asked for specifics so posting those was warranted. I'm not sure they show what the poster was suggesting is Marino's problem but we will find out soon enough....

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Marino was utilized as the Penguins 3D in each of the past 3 seasons. Letang and Dumoulin being utilized as 1D and 2D in all 3 of those years.

Here in NJ, at least right now, Marino slots in as our #5 defenseman.
1. Severson
2. Hamilton
3. Siegenthaler
4. Graves
5. Marino

That alone should help him immensely in terms of matchups and responsibilities. The question is will his play be valuable enough that it warrants a $4.4M cap hit.

 

[My3Sons]

Marino was utilized as the Penguins 3D in each of the past 3 seasons. Letang and Dumoulin being utilized as 1D and 2D in all 3 of those years.

Here in NJ, at least right now, Marino slots in as our #5 defenseman.
1. Severson
2. Hamilton
3. Siegenthaler
4. Graves
5. Marino

That alone should help him immensely in terms of matchups and responsibilities. The question is will his play be valuable enough that it warrants a $4.4M cap hit.

This year it's fine. The bigger issue is next season when he likely has to play as the anchor on a second pair with Luke Hughes or one of the other young defenders.

 

[glenwo2]

New Jersey Devils to Play 7 Games on ESPN & 2 on TNT in 2022-23

Both The Walt Disney Company and Warner Bros.-Discovery announced their broadcast schedules for the 2022-23 NHL season. The New Jersey Devils will have 7 games exclusive to ESPN’s networks and 2 games on TNT. This post is a reaction to both releases.

www.allaboutthejersey.com

Devils on ESPN and TNT this coming season.

 

[Zippy316]

Marino was utilized as the Penguins 3D in each of the past 3 seasons. Letang and Dumoulin being utilized as 1D and 2D in all 3 of those years.

Here in NJ, at least right now, Marino slots in as our #5 defenseman.
1. Severson
2. Hamilton
3. Siegenthaler
4. Graves
5. Marino

That alone should help him immensely in terms of matchups and responsibilities. The question is will his play be valuable enough that it warrants a $4.4M cap hit.

Marino’s responsibilities will skyrocket if the Devils end up trading Severson at any point this season.

Depending on how Nemec looks (and even if Hughes continues to make strides and looks like he could step in), I could see the Devils using Severson to add a forward up-front. Essentially a reverse of the Henrique-Vatanen trade for the Devils.

 

[Patrik26]

Anyone remember this? Blake takes advantage of a Marino blunder. TWICE. Within 6 seconds.

 

[My3Sons]

Anyone remember this? Blake takes advantage of a Marino blunder. TWICE. Within 6 seconds.

The second gaffe was on the goalie and that was an unfortunate bounce off the skate at the blue line. This sort of play probably scarred Marino and led to him waffling on pushing for offense.

 

[Patrik26]

The second gaffe was on the goalie and that was an unfortunate bounce off the skate at the blue line. This sort of play probably scarred Marino and led to him waffling on pushing for offense.

I saw the second one as Marino giving up on Coleman and allowing him to follow up. It happens and we could cherry pick everyone for a mistake at some point. This one stuck out for me because it was Coleman.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Anyone remember this? Blake takes advantage of a Marino blunder. TWICE. Within 6 seconds.

Well that's just not fair to Marino. You can't stop Coleman, you can only hope to contain him