Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[Captain3rdLine]

I mean the end result of that situation is also sealing Recchi’s fate - the Devils were going nowhere with their goaltending and Ruff wanted to give him the opportunity to try and dig himself out of the hole for his own future prospects.

Yes and he didn’t really have the time to significantly change it enough to the point where it could hopefully have improved.
He had a lot of other stuff to worry about. And he would’ve been taking over probably the one thing Recchi was in charge of.

 

[Devils731]

It really isn’t that simple. They have assigned roles and he would be walking all-over him and piss Recchi off if he comes in and takes over his role.
He also had a lot of other stuff to take care of and a big part of why they have assistants running special teams is because head coaches do a lot of other stuff and can’t handle it all.

And it’s not as simple as just fixing it. He would’ve had to step in and take over the powerplay and change it and it would take time and hopefully/maybe improve it. But every single player would see it and it would take weeks and a lot of Ruff’s time to change it significantly.

It really is that simple. “Mark, the PP was bad for 20 games, we talked, and it’s been bad for 40 more games. I have to make a change.”

These are adults in a performance industry.

Ruff should have spent the weeks working on the PP since it was atrocious. If that meant hurting Recchi’s feelings then that’s and unfortunate side affect to Recchi’s poor PP coaching.

 

[Billdo]

I'd imagine that ppl might be miffed that a team that had the record they did, in the fashion they did, only gassed assistants. I don't really know of that happening all that often. It has and occasionally does, but it's not the norm. Especially with Nas who was pretty solid during his time here despite rosters changing and stuff. Recchi can f*** fight off though. Horrendous coaching from him.

 

[NJDfan86]

It really is that simple. “Mark, the PP was bad for 20 games, we talked, and it’s been bad for 40 more games. I have to make a change.”

These are adults in a performance industry.

Ruff should have spent the weeks working on the PP since it was atrocious. If that meant hurting Recchi’s feelings then that’s and unfortunate side affect to Recchi’s poor PP coaching.

1) Relieving the PP coach of his duties with 20 games remaining in a lost season is both incredibly harsh to the human and reshuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

2) The Devils did go through a period this year when the PP was getting results, even though the underlying were still abysmal, so this description really isn’t fair.

 

[Devils731]

1) Relieving the PP coach of his duties with 20 games remaining in a lost season is both incredibly harsh to the human and reshuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

2) The Devils did go through a period this year when the PP was getting results, even though the underlying were still abysmal, so this description really isn’t fair.

The PP was bad for 82 games, regardless of a short period where some pucks went in.

Effectively what you’re saying is that a head coach can’t overrule an assistant coach doing a bad job because the assistant coach might have hurt feelings. Also, at some point coaches can just give up on a season and stop trying. Those are both nuts, imo.

 

[MadDevil]

Feathers were ruffled around the league because opposing teams would have preferred we keep Recchi to torpedo our PP.

 

[NJDfan86]

The PP was bad for 82 games, regardless of a short period where some pucks went in.

Effectively what you’re saying is that a head coach can’t overrule an assistant coach doing a bad job. Also, at some point coaches can just give up on a season and stop trying. Those are both nuts, imo.

I don’t disagree, but as we know the league is a result oriented business and many don’t care that the PP results were just a shooting bender. Recchi received 1 full season as our PP coach, tossing the guy to the side in such a short amount of time is overly harsh.

You are also drastically overrating how much of the decisions being made were Ruff’s alone. The Devils PP was very clearly an organizational plan - it played directly into the players 5v5 strengths (creating of the rush) and tried to minimize their weakness (cycle game).

 

[Devils731]

I don’t disagree, but as we know the league is a result oriented business and many don’t care that the PP results were just a shooting bender.

Recchi received 1 full season as our PP coach, tossing the guy to the side in such a short amount of time is overly harsh. You are also drastically overrating how much of the decisions being made were Ruff’s alone.

I mean, what is Ruff’s responsibility then? Ruff is the head coach; the on-ice is his responsibility.

Ruff can’t control the roster or injuries but he is where the buck stops for every strategy happening on the ice. He either creates it or approves of it.

 

[NJDfan86]

I mean, what is Ruff’s responsibility then? Ruff is the head coach; the on-ice is his responsibility.

Ruff can’t control the roster or injuries but he is where the buck stops for every strategy happening on the ice. He either creates it or approves of it.

Is it not obvious how the Devils are actually being run? Hockey Op’s, Analytics, and the coaching staff are working collaboratively.

Very few NHL org’s hire a head coach and give them carte blanche to do whatever they want.

 

[Devils731]

Is it not obvious how the Devils are actually being run? Hockey Op’s, Analytics, and the coaching staff are working collaboratively.

Very few NHL org’s hire a head coach and give them carte blanche to do whatever they want.

Yes, everyone can advise but the head coach bears ultimate responsibility for on-ice decisions.

Otherwise, how is anyone ever at fault when nobody bears final responsibility?

Or will it always be the guys at the bottom of the pyramid not executing the brilliance from the top of the pyramid?

We can’t say Recchi has total control of the PP and needs to go but Ruff has only marginal control of the on-ice product and is a good soldier.

 

[NJDfan86]

Yes, everyone can advise but the head coach bears ultimate responsibility for on-ice decisions.

Otherwise, how is anyone ever at fault when nobody bears final responsibility?

Or will it always be the guys at the bottom of the pyramid not executing the brilliance from the top of the pyramid?

We can’t say Recchi has total control of the PP and needs to go but Ruff has only marginal control of the on-ice product and is a good soldier.

It’s not as simple as “advise” - the Front Office is directly installing systems and tactics with the input of the coaching staff. The coaching staff is then installing these concepts with the players. The PP is most certainly an organizational failure, but firing the PP coach is an easy PR move.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

Fitzgerald former colleagues:

Mike Johnston
Gary Agnew
Dan Bylsma
Tony Granato
Jacques Martin
Todd Reirden
Mike Yeo
Michel Therrien
Andre Savard*

Ruff former colleagues (not including Kevyn Adams):

David Quinn
Greg Brown
David Oliver
Alain Vigneault
Scott Arniel
Darryl Williams
Curt Fraser
James Patrick
Brian McCutcheon
Don Lever
Mike Ramsey

 

[Saugus]

Feathers were ruffled around the league because opposing teams would have preferred we keep Recchi to torpedo our PP.

In that case they would have really hated it if we fired our goalie coach.

 

[Auto Pilot]

Wait the ruffled feathers were from somewhere around the league, not with the Devils? Kinda weird, why would anyone not with the team be upset especially with the disaster that Wrecky was and Nas' contract was up anyway.

Because they don’t actually pay attention to other teams. looking at the advanced stats, ruff actually had the team in the top 10 for the most part 5 on 5. defensively they were surprisingly fine as well in had some categories where they were top 10.

The PP and goaltending legit killed them. So anyone complaining one of the issues (the pp coach) was let go has no idea what they’re talking about. I would be fine with recchi and ruff working in player development for the team. I don’t mind ruff getting another season as long as the pp functions how it should on paper, which has too much talent to be as bad as is it was.

And Nas, well, maybe he didn’t want to renew and wanted to go else where. Also the PK the last month was actually dog shit.

It’s either people don’t know wtf they’re talking about, or they’re terrified of the devils getting a competent pp. or both

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It really is that simple. “Mark, the PP was bad for 20 games, we talked, and it’s been bad for 40 more games. I have to make a change.”

These are adults in a performance industry.

Ruff should have spent the weeks working on the PP since it was atrocious. If that meant hurting Recchi’s feelings then that’s and unfortunate side affect to Recchi’s poor PP coaching.

It really isn’t that simple and you’re ignoring the simple fact that Ruff has a lot of other stuff to worry about. It also just isn’t his job. When Recchi was hired he was hired to run the powerplay. Like in any other job in the world. If a colleague is doing a bad job it doesn’t just mean you just take over their job. You can’t. Recchi was hired to be the pp coach. Ruff can’t and isn’t going to just say okay I’m the pp coach now. He also can’t do that while putting all the required effort into what he is actually supposed to be focused on.
Sure in some situations Fitz could come in and say okay Mark, Lindy is gonna run the pp now but at that point he’s essentially getting fired in season which they clearly don’t want to do and Ruff is handling more than he should.

Recchi was hired to run the pp. They either fire him in season which it seems unlikely they were gonna do especially considering he was well liked. Or they let him try to figure out the pp. At a certain point it was too late anyways. Like once they’re halfway through the season and they’re out of the playoff race it really isn’t worth it.

Yes, everyone can advise but the head coach bears ultimate responsibility for on-ice decisions.

Otherwise, how is anyone ever at fault when nobody bears final responsibility?

Or will it always be the guys at the bottom of the pyramid not executing the brilliance from the top of the pyramid?

We can’t say Recchi has total control of the PP and needs to go but Ruff has only marginal control of the on-ice product and is a good soldier.

Ruff didn’t control the pp. Recchi was hired as the pp coach. Coaches get hired for specific roles and they’re responsible for their roles and they don’t nor is it a good idea to stomp on each others toes and try to take over each others jobs.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I mean, what is Ruff’s responsibility then? Ruff is the head coach; the on-ice is his responsibility.

Ruff can’t control the roster or injuries but he is where the buck stops for every strategy happening on the ice. He either creates it or approves of it.

Ruff’s responsibility is a lot of the other stuff that he was assigned. Recchi was hired as the pp coach. It’s his job to run the pp not Ruff’s

The PP was bad for 82 games, regardless of a short period where some pucks went in.

Effectively what you’re saying is that a head coach can’t overrule an assistant coach doing a bad job because the assistant coach might have hurt feelings. Also, at some point coaches can just give up on a season and stop trying. Those are both nuts, imo.

No, he can’t because it isn’t his job. Fitz hires the staff. He hired Recchi as the pp coach. Ruff was given other responsibilities. He can’t just decide he wants to run the pp and push Recchi aside.

He can provide some input and maybe talk to Fitz but when other guys are given specific jobs it isn’t Ruff’s job to come in and just take over. That’s why Recchi was fired. He was the power play coach and he did very poorly.

 

[bossram]

Braun is not close to Lyubushkin. I'd say Lyubushkin is one of the most underrated players in the league right now. Braun is ok, but he is what he is -- a functional, defensive 3-RD. Lyubushkin is physical, defensively stalwart and good with the puck. If I'm Fitzgerald, Lyubushkin is my #1 UFA target this off-season -- we need a shut-down RD to compliment/contrast Hamilton/Severson even more than we need a goaltender or forward.

I wouldn't mind Boosh as a 3RD either, but the bolded is an incredibly strange description of him. Puck handling and puck-moving are his biggest weaknesses.

I watch a lot of the Leafs, and my overall sense is that Boosh is a very limited player. He can be effective in-zone with his size and physicality, and his neutral zone defence is even decent because he does know when to step up and kill a play early.

Problem is his overall play-driving metrics are poor because he doesn't advance the puck. On retrievals, he doesn't have the processing power to move the puck quickly to avoid the forecheck, and he doesn't have the mobility to skate it out himself. If we had passing microdata, he'd probably lead the Leafs in missed passes. He's limited to punting the puck out. I'd say role-wise, he's interchangeable with someone like Braun.

FWIW, Keefe doesn't even really trust Boosh on the PK either.

Your offer of $3.75M per for a player like this is bananas.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It’s impossible to know exactly who was responsible for what because it’s a little different on every team and is dependent on who’s on the coaching staff but here’s my idea of what I’d guess it could’ve been like.


Ruff:
Runs forwards during games
Most 5v5 systems
Lineup decisions
Manage players
Manage practices

Nas:
Runs Defense during games
Penalty kill
Defense mentor
Implement head coaches systems
Some of defensive structure?

Recchi:
Powerplay/man-advantage
Forward Mentor
Implement head coaches systems


Usually the bulk of the 5v5 systems are the head coaches but another coach could run certain aspects. Like I could see Nas taking over some aspects of the defensive structure as the second in charge and the d coach but it would still most likely be something that him and Ruff discuss heavily together and Ruff has a major affect on.

I doubt Recchi did much more than run man-advantage situations and act as a mentor and coach the forwards and specifically the younger ones.

That’s why if Fitz and Ruff decided to have Ruff take over the powerplay they would essentially be firing him. Instead it made more sense to just let him play it out and see if he could figure it out especially considering the season was lost and young players like Jack seemed to like him.

 

[Bleedred]

Listening to the podcast, the impression that I got was “How can you blame the assistants but think the head coach was good?”

That impression may be colored because I generally agree with that question. If Recchi is so bad at running the PP then Ruff should step in and change it. Either give it to someone else or fix it himself and hand it back to Recchi.

The fact that nothing changed much on the PP suggests Ruff approved of the PP but Recchi takes the fall while Ruff gets praised. I could see how that might rub people outside the organization the wrong way.

I've always been kind of scared that Ruff has more control over the power play than we realize and that it's not all just Recchi, and that if we just fire Recchi we'll still have some of the Ruff bullshit leftover with the power play.

I looked at his results in Dallas (not Buffalo, that was too long ago to really consider) at how their power play was and they were usually around league average or just below league average. Nothing like we had this year, at least not from what I remember when I looked it up a couple months ago.

Although, I remembered this weird stat from years ago that Antti Niemi allowed ELEVEN short handed goals on just 33 shots faced. It was just a one year thing and Lehtonen didn't fare as poorly while the Stars were on the power play that year.

Now, Niemi was pretty much cooked by that point. He was dead average by his last season in San Jose and got worse in Dallas and outside of as a sparsely used backup in Montreal, he never played good in the NHL again. He wasn't that bad at even strength in the first year in Dallas, but his save percentage while the Stars were on the power play was like 60%-something percent with his 11 goals against on 33 shots faced.

What I wondered was for him to allow that many goals shorthanded (Lehtonen allowed 4 on 30 shots that year), that's 15 non-empty net shorthanded goals that year between both of those goalies. Both of those goalies sucked (just like ours this year) by that point in their careers. I remember calling them the Finnished Finns.

But is that a tactical issue that they were allowing that many shorthanded goals?? We saw A LOT of short handed chances against while we were on the power play this year, even when not getting scored on. Even when the goalie wound up not facing a single shot sometimes while we were on the power play, we still gave up a decent amount of chances while we were on the power play.

 

[NJDevs26]

I've always been kind of scared that Ruff has more control over the power play than we realize and that it's not all just Recchi, and that if we just fire Recchi we'll still have some of the Ruff bullshit leftover with the power play.

I looked at his results in Dallas (not Buffalo, that was too long ago to really consider) at how their power play was and they were usually around league average or just below league average. Nothing like we had this year, at least not from what I remember when I looked it up a couple months ago.

Although, I remembered this weird stat from years ago that Antti Niemi allowed ELEVEN short handed goals on just 33 shots faced. It was just a one year thing and Lehtonen didn't fare as poorly while the Stars were on the power play that year.

Now, Niemi was pretty much cooked by that point. He was dead average by his last season in San Jose and got worse in Dallas and outside of as a sparsely used backup in Montreal, he never played good in the NHL again. He wasn't that bad at even strength in the first year in Dallas, but his save percentage while the Stars were on the power play was like 60%-something percent with his 11 goals against on 33 shots faced.

What I wondered was for him to allow that many goals shorthanded (Lehtonen allowed 4 on 30 shots that year), that's 15 non-empty net shorthanded goals that year between both of those goalies. Both of those goalies sucked (just like ours this year) by that point in their careers. I remember calling them the Finnished Finns.

But is that a tactical issue that they were allowing that many shorthanded goals?? We saw A LOT of short handed chances against while we were on the power play this year, even when not getting scored on. Even when the goalie wound up not facing a single shot sometimes while we were on the power play, we still gave up a decent amount of chances while we were on the power play.

Replace ‘Ruff’ with ‘Fitz and his analytics team’ and I’d agree with that first sentence. But given Recchi’s track record before he got here, he had to go regardless. It’s pretty freaking rare when you get a crowd chanting fire the assistant and not Fire Ruff

 

[Emperoreddy]

I mean this is exactly why I wanted Ruff fired too and don't really agree with Fitz keeping him.

He is the HC. If the special teams are so bad, and the way the team plays defense isn't good enough. HC is either already failing, or not stepping in to fix it as the assistant fails.

Why even have a HC then? What does Ruff actually do here if the assistants actually have all the power?

 

[Bleedred]

Replace ‘Ruff’ with ‘Fitz and his analytics team’ and I’d agree with that first sentence. But given Recchi’s track record before he got here, he had to go regardless. It’s pretty freaking rare when you get a crowd chanting fire the assistant and not Fire Ruff

I don't really believe that there's that many people involved in it like Masisak implied in his tweet. Although I wouldn't be surprised if management might be to an extent, but I'm not sure any more or less than they are with the average NHL team.

Analytically, I'm pretty sure we were a BAD power play team. It's pretty obvious just by all the shorthanded chances we allowed. When you get outchanced on your power play like we did sometimes, I can't see there being any data or any stat that would indicate the power play wasn't bad. I'm sure we didn't get outchanced overall on the power play throughout the year, that would be way too hard to do, but there were too many nights that we did or at least too many different power play opportunities that we did.

 

[Devils731]

Replace ‘Ruff’ with ‘Fitz and his analytics team’ and I’d agree with that first sentence. But given Recchi’s track record before he got here, he had to go regardless. It’s pretty freaking rare when you get a crowd chanting fire the assistant and not Fire Ruff

I have that worry about the analytical team and 5 on 5 play.

I assume and hope they’re not using public xGA models to determine how 5 on 5 defense is going but when I hear Ruff and Fitz talk to the press I wonder.

Hearing Fitz talk about poor gap control made me worry a little less though. Gap control while defending entries was a big weakness this year and public xGA models may be blind or possibly in favor of this problem since it can encourage guys to shoot from far out.

 

[Bleedred]

As far Lyubushkin goes, I really think we're better off either using what we'd spend on him and adding to it for someone better, or just rolling the dice on someone younger and more cost controlled like Kevin Bahl. I'm still completely confident that Kevin Bahl will be any good, but he looked pretty good this latest call up, despite looking like Seth Helgeson's clone in previous call ups.

That said, I would rather someone like him or O play the bottom pairing for cheap.

It's one the reasons why I've argued moving out Zacha, rather than give him a long term deal or for millions of dollars. I'm pretty confident we could find a cheaper player on an ELC or making slightly more than an ELC (like Boqvist) to at least replicate or come close to replicating Zacha's production.

 

[RSeen]

Most people seem to be upset with Ruff staying but I'm happy with it.

I cannot ignore the development of Hughes, Hishier and Bratt. Even players like Boqvist, McLeod and Bastian look like NHLers where they easily could have ended up being minor leaguers.

I don't like all his decisions like playing Geertson, but overall I think Ruff has done well given what injuries we had.

Given how young our team is and how Ruff has developed our young players, I'm more than fine with him being the coach next year.