Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[NJDevs26]

Only rationale I can come up with is they’re more fed up the assistants got quickly ‘scapegoated’ while the head coach remained but that’s too simplistic for reasons given above

 

[RangerDoggo]

Who cares? People get fired every day. One of them was possibly the longest tenured assistant coach for the NHL team in franchise history. The other was absolutely horrendous at what he was assigned to do and did a terribly miserable job. Because he was so great of a player he's entitled to a longer leash to f*** up as a coach? It doesn't work like that. Did it ruffle feathers when Pittsburgh let him go?

I wonder if anybody had their feathers ruffled when Mike Yeo was let go the other day? If they had such a problem with it then they can hire them now. Problem solved.

The boy’s club defies logic by design.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Team has sucked for so long, everyone is tired of it... some change actually happens and it's the Pikachu surprise face apparently.

Lol

 

[StevenToddIves]

Either one would be a great get to balance out this team on the right side. Braun is another option that I’ve seen thrown out a bit. Devils would definitely need to make sure whoever they sign would be capable of playing heavy PK minutes to free up Severson a little.

Ruff seems to know he’s in limbo. Fitzgerald hasn’t fully committed to him as head coach. I think there’s a great possibility Ruff shifts to a different role if there’s a coach out there the Devils like.

Braun is not close to Lyubushkin. I'd say Lyubushkin is one of the most underrated players in the league right now. Braun is ok, but he is what he is -- a functional, defensive 3-RD. Lyubushkin is physical, defensively stalwart and good with the puck. If I'm Fitzgerald, Lyubushkin is my #1 UFA target this off-season -- we need a shut-down RD to compliment/contrast Hamilton/Severson even more than we need a goaltender or forward.

 

[Triumph]

Braun is not close to Lyubushkin. I'd say Lyubushkin is one of the most underrated players in the league right now. Braun is ok, but he is what he is -- a functional, defensive 3-RD. Lyubushkin is physical, defensively stalwart and good with the puck. If I'm Fitzgerald, Lyubushkin is my #1 UFA target this off-season -- we need a shut-down RD to compliment/contrast Hamilton/Severson even more than we need a goaltender or forward.

Lyubushkin was one of the most underrated players in the league. Now he plays for Toronto. That ship sailed. He'll get 10+ offers on Day 1 of UFA.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Team has sucked for so long, everyone is tired of it... some change actually happens and it's the Pikachu surprise face apparently.

Lol

I say let's hire Boudreau and get some energy in the room. If Boudreau doesn't want to come to NJ to be head coach, Kirk Mueller would also be a terrific option.

Lyubushkin was the most underrated players in the league. Now he plays for Toronto. That ship sailed. He'll get 10+ offers on Day 1 of UFA.

Devils have more cap room than the other 9 offers. He's currently making just $1.3 million at age 28. I'm perfectly fine blowing up the market and offering him a 4 year deal at $3.75 million per.

 

[Devils731]

I say let's hire Boudreau and get some energy in the room. If Boudreau doesn't want to come to NJ to be head coach, Kirk Mueller would also be a terrific option.


Devils have more cap room than the other 9 offers. He's currently making just $1.3 million at age 28. I'm perfectly fine blowing up the market and offering him a 4 year deal at $3.75 million per.

Just to confirm, we are talking former Devil Kirk Muller? Seems a fine choice, just want to make sure I’m not missing out on a second guy with a similar name.

 

[Nubmer6]

Just to confirm, we are talking former Devil Kirk Muller? Seems a fine choice, just want to make sure I’m not missing out on a second guy with a similar name.

That would be him.

 

[Triumph]

Devils have more cap room than the other 9 offers. He's currently making just $1.3 million at age 28. I'm perfectly fine blowing up the market and offering him a 4 year deal at $3.75 million per.

This is a terrible idea for a 3rd pairing D. 4 years is far too many for a guy who throws his body around like Lyubushkin (and who already isn't very good, so it doesn't take much of a diminuition of skill for him to be replacement-level or worse).

I like Lyubushkin, but let some other media-addled team get him.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Just to confirm, we are talking former Devil Kirk Muller? Seems a fine choice, just want to make sure I’m not missing out on a second guy with a similar name.

No, you're correct -- Captain Kirk. Sorry for the misspell.

 

[Bleedred]

Only rationale I can come up with is they’re more fed up the assistants got quickly ‘scapegoated’ while the head coach remained but that’s too simplistic for reasons given above

I was thinking that too. Maybe they're mad they took the bullets and Ruff has (so far) survived? Would it have made them feel any better if Ruff went and Nas and Recchi went anyway?

 

[StevenToddIves]

This is a terrible idea for a 3rd pairing D. 4 years is far too many for a guy who throws his body around like Lyubushkin (and who already isn't very good, so it doesn't take much of a diminuition of skill for him to be replacement-level or worse).

I like Lyubushkin, but let some other media-addled team get him.

Lyubushkin is a mobile, 6'2, physical shut-down D who handles the puck well, clears creases and wins battles down low. He plays excellent gaps and is a beast in one-on-one battles. He's basically a right-handed version of Jonas Siegenthaler -- maybe not quite as good overall, but more physical. The difference in the overall play of the Toronto blueline before and after the acquisitions of Lyubushkin (and, to a lesser extent, Giordano) was huge and easy to see if you actually watched the games.

Anyone who says Lyubushkin "isn't very good" clearly hasn't watched him very much and is making this assessment using some less accurate method, so this is not a debate I'm willing to continue.

 

[JK3]

Wait the ruffled feathers were from somewhere around the league, not with the Devils? Kinda weird, why would anyone not with the team be upset especially with the disaster that Wrecky was and Nas' contract was up anyway.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Those guys would succeed with me or you behind the bench though. I'm trying to find some of the younger guys that took steps under Ruff. Zacha...no, McLeod meh, Smith...oof, Kuokkanen...big meh. Mercer just stepped in and took off I guess. Maybe Boqvist but he just needed consistent playing time.

That’s not necessarily true at all. A player like Hughes may not have done as well under a lot of other coaches. There are a lot of coaches that would’ve sat Hughes at points this season or been a lot harder on him. Maybe that’s what he needs at some point but as Hughes said Ruff knew how to push his buttons and get him going and the reality is that Ruff had a reputation for being good at developing young players coming in and Fitz as well as the young players themselves clearly feel he has been good at that here as well.

 

[Triumph]

Lyubushkin is a mobile, 6'2, physical shut-down D who handles the puck well, clears creases and wins battles down low. He plays excellent gaps and is a beast in one-on-one battles. He's basically a right-handed version of Jonas Siegenthaler -- maybe not quite as good overall, but more physical. The difference in the overall play of the Toronto blueline before and after the acquisitions of Lyubushkin (and, to a lesser extent, Giordano) was huge and easy to see if you actually watched the games.

He is not a right-handed version of Jonas Siegenthaler. 'To a lesser extent Giordano' - lol. Giordano is +7 at 5v5 for Toronto, Lyubushkin is -1, but sure, it's Lyubushkin who is the big driver of results, not Giordano. See, Lyubushkin hits people, Giordano doesn't. If you're going to be intellectually dishonest and just disregard the actual results of on-ice play - you know, goals and all that - just leave Giordano out of it.

Where do you think Lyubushkin, a player who was getting 3rd pairing minutes on Arizona, is going to be in 3 years?

Anyone who says Lyubushkin "isn't very good" clearly hasn't watched him very much and is making this assessment using some less accurate method, so this is not a debate I'm willing to continue.

LOL okay. Stick to teenagers, buddy. I'm using ice time and actual results, which show Lyubushkin as, at best, a breakeven proposition 5v5. Which is just fine for the 3rd pairing, but not fine to pay borderline 2nd pairing money to, especially not for 4 years when his body will almost certainly be breaking down long before that.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Speaking of Bratt, what a difference a season makes :

And the Defense has a low rating because he has not been on the PK like he was at times last season.

8 years 6.5? I say 8 years 6.8 or 6.9 (7 is the goal of Bratt's agent but he won't get there).

Not true. Seems like he just wasn’t as good defensively but was quite a bit better offensively at least according to this model

 

[Cheddabombs]

Wait the ruffled feathers were from somewhere around the league, not with the Devils? Kinda weird, why would anyone not with the team be upset especially with the disaster that Wrecky was and Nas' contract was up anyway.

Ohh is that the ruffled feathers lol, maybe I should've listened to the segment myself.

I retract nothing though

 

[Devils731]

I was thinking that too. Maybe they're mad they took the bullets and Ruff has (so far) survived? Would it have made them feel any better if Ruff went and Nas and Recchi went anyway?

Listening to the podcast, the impression that I got was “How can you blame the assistants but think the head coach was good?”

That impression may be colored because I generally agree with that question. If Recchi is so bad at running the PP then Ruff should step in and change it. Either give it to someone else or fix it himself and hand it back to Recchi.

The fact that nothing changed much on the PP suggests Ruff approved of the PP but Recchi takes the fall while Ruff gets praised. I could see how that might rub people outside the organization the wrong way.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Significant part of the beginning of 32 Thoughts given to the Devils and Fitz's press conference. Interesting takeaway: there were apparently some ruffled feathers around the league about letting go of Nas and firing Recchi.

Too bad, bitches. This is the NHL, not a social club.

This is really weird to me. Does this kind of stuff not happen all the time.

Braun is not close to Lyubushkin. I'd say Lyubushkin is one of the most underrated players in the league right now. Braun is ok, but he is what he is -- a functional, defensive 3-RD. Lyubushkin is physical, defensively stalwart and good with the puck. If I'm Fitzgerald, Lyubushkin is my #1 UFA target this off-season -- we need a shut-down RD to compliment/contrast Hamilton/Severson even more than we need a goaltender or forward.

Umm I agree that he would be great to have but we absolutely need a good goaltender more than we need a 3RD.

 

[StevenToddIves]

He is not a right-handed version of Jonas Siegenthaler. 'To a lesser extent Giordano' - lol. Giordano is +7 at 5v5 for Toronto, Lyubushkin is -1, but sure, it's Lyubushkin who is the big driver of results, not Giordano. See, Lyubushkin hits people, Giordano doesn't. If you're going to be intellectually dishonest and just disregard the actual results of on-ice play - you know, goals and all that - just leave Giordano out of it.

Where do you think Lyubushkin, a player who was getting 3rd pairing minutes on Arizona, is going to be in 3 years?



LOL okay. Stick to teenagers, buddy. I'm using ice time and actual results, which show Lyubushkin as, at best, a breakeven proposition 5v5. Which is just fine for the 3rd pairing, but not fine to pay borderline 2nd pairing money to, especially not for 4 years when his body will almost certainly be breaking down long before that.

"Stick to teenagers, buddy," he said, frantically rifling through his JFresh player cards in order to know what his own assessment should be.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Listening to the podcast, the impression that I got was “How can you blame the assistants but think the head coach was good?”

That impression may be colored because I generally agree with that question. If Recchi is so bad at running the PP then Ruff should step in and change it. Either give it to someone else or fix it himself and hand it back to Recchi.

The fact that nothing changed much on the PP suggests Ruff approved of the PP but Recchi takes the fall while Ruff gets praised. I could see how that might rub people outside the organization the wrong way.

It doesn’t necessarily work like this. Sometimes when that is all an assistant coach has to run a head coach isn’t just gonna step in and change it even if it’s doing poorly. They work together and that’s a great way to piss off your colleague.

 

[Devils731]

It doesn’t necessarily work like this. Sometimes when that is all an assistant coach has to run a head coach isn’t just gonna step in and change it even if it’s doing poorly. They work together and that’s a great way to piss off your colleague.

A head coach/leader needs to step in when things are failing.

Ruff’s defense to the PP flailing all year can’t be “I didn’t want upset Mark by trying to fix the failing PP”.

If Ruff didn’t step in then he’s allowing Recchi to run the failing PP into the ground and that’s a failure on Ruff as head coach.

 

[Triumph]

"Stick to teenagers, buddy," he said, frantically rifling through his JFresh player cards in order to know what his own assessment should be.

I've already said I like Lyubushkin, he gets decent results, he can play on my third pair any time. 3 years at 2.5M? Yeah, that would work. 4 years at 3.5? Absolutely not. GMs cannot mistake rare skill sets for valuable ones, and while this sort of RHD hit machine who plays a decent defensive game is somewhat rare, it doesn't mean it is valuable.

Also should be noted that you as a watch-the-games enthusiast liked him so much that you mentioned him one (1) time before he was traded to Toronto. And now you love him! You had so many other strong assessments of totally marginal Toronto players - Justin Holl, Andreas Johnsson - that it makes me think you watch Toronto a lot. Guess who else pays attention to Toronto way more? The bulk of NHL GMs. The real undervalued players in Toronto tend to be players being dumped on by the media, which a Lyubushkin type almost never will be.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

A head coach/leader needs to step in when things are failing.

Ruff’s defense to the PP flailing all year can’t be “I didn’t want upset Mark by trying to fix the failing PP”.

If Ruff didn’t step in then he’s allowing Recchi to run the failing PP into the ground and that’s a failure on Ruff as head coach.

It really isn’t that simple. They have assigned roles and he would be walking all-over him and piss Recchi off if he comes in and takes over his role.
He also had a lot of other stuff to take care of and a big part of why they have assistants running special teams is because head coaches do a lot of other stuff and can’t handle it all.

And it’s not as simple as just fixing it. He would’ve had to step in and take over the powerplay and change it and it would take time and hopefully/maybe improve it. But every single player would see it and it would take weeks and a lot of Ruff’s time to change it significantly.

 

[NJDfan86]

A head coach/leader needs to step in when things are failing.

Ruff’s defense to the PP flailing all year can’t be “I didn’t want upset Mark by trying to fix the failing PP”.

If Ruff didn’t step in then he’s allowing Recchi to run the failing PP into the ground and that’s a failure on Ruff as head coach.

I mean the end result of that situation is also sealing Recchi’s fate - the Devils were going nowhere with their goaltending and Ruff wanted to give him the opportunity to try and dig himself out of the hole for his own future prospects.

Leadership is also allowing people to learn from their mistakes.