Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

Status
Not open for further replies.

FinnishDevil

Registered User
Dec 6, 2013
5,964
10,558
Finland
He is not an attractive piece. Even NHL GMs, who love size and speed and grittiness, would not pick this guy up on waivers. They wouldn't take him for free.
I honestly bet most if not all GMs would pick him up for free. He helps your team right now. The reason bad UFA deals happen is cause GMs know they probably wont be there once the deal gets bad. Fitz for example needs to do everything to help us be better so he can save his own job. Even if theres bigger needs than just a physical winger.

Lets say he trades futures for Anderson. We have another bad season for whatever reason and he gets fired. He took his shot and now Anderson is someone elses headache. But if he scores say 20-20-40 and we make the playoffs and Fitz buys himself couple more years.

Desperate GMs can be scary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nugg and My3Sons

NjDevsRR

Anything Can Happen In Jersey
Sponsor
Apr 24, 2012
30,227
62,719
Belmar
Not good enough for the U20 team? He is a bust; hopefully the Devils can flip him for a second round pick asap. :sarcasm:
4802F84F-03A8-4642-98BB-FDDCC4660E40.jpeg
 

Stephen Gionta

Boston College > Boston University
Jun 15, 2015
6,392
2,487
East Rutherford, NJ

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
22,675
50,599
If you want to take any cues from Tampa, a group with a pretty versatile set of forwards, you'll note that, aside from Palat at 5.3M, they don't commit over 5M to any of their crash-bang guys and the majority of the cap space is dedicated to the high end skill guys.

They've cycled through value contracts in Goodrow, Coleman, Paul, Hagel, Bellemare, Colton and I guess Perry/Maroon too. Franchise-equivalent of Warren Buffett as far as identifying bottom six value. Of course, they paid in draft capital.

Only way to improve on this would be to actually draft those types of players, and it remains to be seen if we have truly done that. I'd love for Zetterlund, Thompson, etc. to become as useful as those guys but not holding my breath. Part of what makes those guys useful to a championship team is the amount of experience they accumulated before coming to TB.

I also think this is an implicit argument to shoot pretty damn high (boom/bust) in the later rounds of the draft. Is true bottom six value for a contending team ever that young?

Bottom line: never do the Backes, Anderson, Lucic, etc. thing. Like, ever. Draft them? Yeah sure. But never carry their third deals.

We literally drafted Coleman? Who knows, if Tampa drafted him maybe he would be still be on their team. They drafted Palat in the 2011 7th Rd, Killorn in 2011 2nd Rd, Paquette in the 2012 4th Rd, Cirelli in the 2015 3rd Rd, Colton in 2016 4th Rd, etc

You draft for all sorts of potential NHL players and not the same kind. You start bleeding out assets fast when you contend, you can’t make improvements just by trading picks alone. They could only afford a few of those trades and there’s a limited number of the truly high end minimum contract guys around.

Tampa, like Boston and Pittsburgh, also has the advantages of a well-run top of the line organization: great player development in a minor league system augmented by smart FA signing (Gourde, Tyler Johnson).

You’re right about Anderson though a little harsh on him, he did play on a awful team (more awful than ours).

Anderson was younger and cheaper than Lucic (28 & 6 years/6m) & Backes (32 & 5 years/6m) when they signed. 6m was 8.22% of the Cap when they got those deal in that infamous off-season.

Anderson was 26 when he signed his 7 year/5.5m deal and that was 6.75% of the cap. It’s 6.67% of 82.7m and with 5 years left.

The Habs need to dump salary. Anderson & Petry might be movable, they certainly got the press talking about them. I wouldn’t pay them assets to help them out with any of those players.
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,607
25,043
Miami, FL
GMs get fired for giving out bad contracts, they don't give out bad contracts because they anticipate getting fired.

The whole reason GMs do stupid shit is because they're trying to save their jobs. They aren't trying to get themselves fired or wreck their own team out of spite.

There's absolutely no way a guy with 5 years left on his contract gets picked up off waivers. Zero percent chance.
 

glenwo2

JESPER BRATWURST
Oct 18, 2008
52,506
25,005
New Jersey(No Fanz!)
The list should NOT include Goaltenders regardless of being drafted. Hindsight is Hindsight but come on! Realistically-speaking, no team out there would really draft a Goaltender in the first round, let alone using a top 10 pick.

Also, Makar, Heiskanen, and Pettersson....I believe would deserve being drafted ahead of Nico.

But NOT Thomas, Robertson, and DEFINITELY...ABSOLUTELY....UNEQUIVOCALLY...******NOT****** SUZUKI.

Adam Kimelman has to be smoking some serious s--t to put up THAT re-draft.
LOL.

Here's how I'd redraft:
1. Makar
2. Heiskanen
3. Hischier
4. Robertson
5. Pettersson
6. Thomas
7. Oettinger
8. Swayman
9. Norris
10. Suzuki
Just my preference but I'd remove any Goaltender as there is no realistic way any team would've drafted a Goaltender in the first round, let alone a Top 10 pick.
 

Triumph

Registered User
Oct 2, 2007
14,003
14,920
I honestly bet most if not all GMs would pick him up for free. He helps your team right now. The reason bad UFA deals happen is cause GMs know they probably wont be there once the deal gets bad. Fitz for example needs to do everything to help us be better so he can save his own job. Even if theres bigger needs than just a physical winger.

Nobody will take him for free. Have you looked at Capfriendly lately?

Lets say he trades futures for Anderson. We have another bad season for whatever reason and he gets fired. He took his shot and now Anderson is someone elses headache. But if he scores say 20-20-40 and we make the playoffs and Fitz buys himself couple more years.

The problem is that Anderson isn't very good and he can't save your job but he and a few other moves like it sure as hell can end it.

Desperate GMs can be scary.

They sure can, they are rarely that scary. Jim Benning took on OEL last off-season but dumped a bunch of his bad contracts on Arizona. That's how someone is going to get Josh Anderson. A bad contract (or two) will be headed the other way.
 

guitarguyvic

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
9,085
7,648
The list should NOT include Goaltenders regardless of being drafted. Hindsight is Hindsight but come on! Realistically-speaking, no team out there would really draft a Goaltender in the first round, let alone using a top 10 pick.

Also, Makar, Heiskanen, and Pettersson....I believe would deserve being drafted ahead of Nico.

But NOT Thomas, Robertson, and DEFINITELY...ABSOLUTELY....UNEQUIVOCALLY...******NOT****** SUZUKI.

Adam Kimelman has to be smoking some serious s--t to put up THAT re-draft.

Just my preference but I'd remove any Goaltender as there is no realistic way any team would've drafted a Goaltender in the first round, let alone a Top 10 pick.
Why not include goaltenders? I don’t think the main point of a redraft is to say “this team should have picked this player at this spot”, especially for the top pick (usually a consensus on just one or two guys) or a goaltender (who usually go in later rounds). It’s more of just an interesting exercise in ranking each pick based on what they became. There are going to be picks that can be questioned in hindsight as you get past those top spots, but otherwise this shouldn’t be taken that seriously.
 

Stephen Gionta

Boston College > Boston University
Jun 15, 2015
6,392
2,487
East Rutherford, NJ
The list should NOT include Goaltenders regardless of being drafted. Hindsight is Hindsight but come on! Realistically-speaking, no team out there would really draft a Goaltender in the first round, let alone using a top 10 pick.

Also, Makar, Heiskanen, and Pettersson....I believe would deserve being drafted ahead of Nico.

But NOT Thomas, Robertson, and DEFINITELY...ABSOLUTELY....UNEQUIVOCALLY...******NOT****** SUZUKI.

Adam Kimelman has to be smoking some serious s--t to put up THAT re-draft.

Just my preference but I'd remove any Goaltender as there is no realistic way any team would've drafted a Goaltender in the first round, let alone a Top 10 pick.

You seem to be struggling with knowing what a re-draft means.

A re-draft means if we were to re-do the draft right now with the information we have today, how would it play out? So yes, Oettinger and Swayman would almost definitely both be top 10 picks.

Also, I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting Robertson over Hischier. I personally wouldn't but I could see how someone might. Robertson is an elite player. Just like Nico is.
 

Eggtimer

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
15,066
12,132
Calgary Alberta


Not good enough for the U20 team? He is a bust; hopefully the Devils can flip him for a second round pick asap. :sarcasm:

Did he get an invite but turn it down ? Or did they assume that he would want to concentrate on working out or was he simply not a player they wanted? I can’t see how they wouldn’t not want him on the team
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdj12784

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
22,675
50,599
Did he get an invite but turn it down ? Or did they assume that he would want to concentrate on working out or was he simply not a player they wanted? I can’t see how they wouldn’t not want him on the team

Holtz was already on the U20 team. He went to the first attempt at them in December that was canceled early after a couple of games, so he’s automatically in. He turned them down.

The tweet has his explanation, he wants to get ready for the upcoming NHL season. People expected this to happen with a number of players because the make-up tournament is scheduled so close to the start of camp.
 

glenwo2

JESPER BRATWURST
Oct 18, 2008
52,506
25,005
New Jersey(No Fanz!)
Why not include goaltenders? I don’t think the main point of a redraft is to say “this team should have picked this player at this spot”, especially for the top pick (usually a consensus on just one or two guys) or a goaltender (who usually go in later rounds). It’s more of just an interesting exercise in ranking each pick based on what they became. There are going to be picks that can be questioned in hindsight as you get past those top spots, but otherwise this shouldn’t be taken that seriously.
Then if it's just a RANKING, I feel they shouldn't really call it a Re-Draft then.



You seem to be struggling with knowing what a re-draft means.

A re-draft means if we were to re-do the draft right now with the information we have today, how would it play out? So yes, Oettinger and Swayman would almost definitely both be top 10 picks.

Also, I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting Robertson over Hischier. I personally wouldn't but I could see how someone might. Robertson is an elite player. Just like Nico is.
So basically a Hindsight-draft where everyone knows already how a draft pick 5-7 years from then turns out.

Too bad we didn't have that Hindsight with Zacha, huh?
 
Last edited:

FinnishDevil

Registered User
Dec 6, 2013
5,964
10,558
Finland
Nobody will take him for free. Have you looked at Capfriendly lately?



The problem is that Anderson isn't very good and he can't save your job but he and a few other moves like it sure as hell can end it.



They sure can, they are rarely that scary. Jim Benning took on OEL last off-season but dumped a bunch of his bad contracts on Arizona. That's how someone is going to get Josh Anderson. A bad contract (or two) will be headed the other way.
I dont think he's great or anything, but he was on pace for 40 pts. Add to the that all the "grit, physicality, power forward" stuff and he is definitely fine middle six option. He's declining since CBJ, but if he was bought out today every team would be ready to sign him. There are definitely couple dumb GMs who would take his caphit. Its not like its 8 or 10 million or something.

Just look at what Ristolainen got just year ago. Awful player but "plays the right way" and someone was dumb enough to pay premium for him. Then you can say that Risto didnt have awful term.. well now he does. By the same team that traded for him.

I definitely see Philly going for Anderson. I hope its something ridiculous like their 5th overall so we can all have a good laugh. Throw in JVR and you have your contract swap. :popcorn:
 

Eggtimer

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
15,066
12,132
Calgary Alberta
I dont think he's great or anything, but he was on pace for 40 pts. Add to the that all the "grit, physicality, power forward" stuff and he is definitely fine middle six option. He's declining since CBJ, but if he was bought out today every team would be ready to sign him. There are definitely couple dumb GMs who would take his caphit. Its not like its 8 or 10 million or something.

Just look at what Ristolainen got just year ago. Awful player but "plays the right way" and someone was dumb enough to pay premium for him. Then you can say that Risto didnt have awful term.. well now he does. By the same team that traded for him.

I definitely see Philly going for Anderson. I hope its something ridiculous like their 5th overall so we can all have a good laugh. Throw in JVR and you have your contract swap. :popcorn:
Philly will prioritize going after Johnny G. Maybe if they strike out on him , they look at Anderson , but they have cap issues and will have to move out JVR if they want Johnny. Hopefully they do something stupid and trade Provolov out west. The crappier they are the better.
 

Oneiro

Registered User
Mar 28, 2013
9,892
12,002
We literally drafted Coleman? Who knows, if Tampa drafted him maybe he would be still be on their team. They drafted Palat in the 2011 7th Rd, Killorn in 2011 2nd Rd, Paquette in the 2012 4th Rd, Cirelli in the 2015 3rd Rd, Colton in 2016 4th Rd, etc

You draft for all sorts of potential NHL players and not the same kind. You start bleeding out assets fast when you contend, you can’t make improvements just by trading picks alone. They could only afford a few of those trades and there’s a limited number of the truly high end minimum contract guys around.

Tampa, like Boston and Pittsburgh, also has the advantages of a well-run top of the line organization: great player development in a minor league system augmented by smart FA signing (Gourde, Tyler Johnson).

You’re right about Anderson though a little harsh on him, he did play on a awful team (more awful than ours).

Anderson was younger and cheaper than Lucic (28 & 6 years/6m) & Backes (32 & 5 years/6m) when they signed. 6m was 8.22% of the Cap when they got those deal in that infamous off-season.

Anderson was 26 when he signed his 7 year/5.5m deal and that was 6.75% of the cap. It’s 6.67% of 82.7m and with 5 years left.

The Habs need to dump salary. Anderson & Petry might be movable, they certainly got the press talking about them. I wouldn’t pay them assets to help them out with any of those players.
Took a bit of time for most of those players to make their way into the lineup, usually the age 22-23 season as the first impactful season, if not later. If a guy like Zetterlund is for real, it will be 6-7 years from his draft.

I don't think anyone is going to argue against the idea that a team should continually draft well. But both of these cup final teams have only a handful of first or second year players in the mix (Foote, Newhook, Byram), all of whom are higher skill blue chips in their organization. And how many of those long term bottom six guys make the transition J. Boqvist is undergoing (fast skill guy to checker)? Just seems like an easier task to identify NHL-level character guys vs. attempting to read the tea leaves on them at the draft.

But yeah, I don't think you can just continue to dump 1sts to win on those character guys at the deadline. That's not exactly a strategy though I'm kind of impressed Tampa's been able to do it well.
 

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
22,675
50,599
Anderson seems movable but it’s hard to get a feel for the markets when a lot of names are getting mentioned and we’re the alleged buyers half the time.

It’s nice to be the belle of the ball but it makes it feel like a buyers market for forwards. (For goalies… well… *jumps off building*)
 

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
67,701
30,526
LOL.

Here's how I'd redraft:
1. Makar
2. Heiskanen
3. Hischier
4. Robertson
5. Pettersson
6. Thomas
7. Oettinger
8. Swayman
9. Norris
10. Suzuki

Honest question...How do you put a guy that has scored 40+ goals and a high of 79 points while averaging near point per game throughout his career (.98 ppg) behind Hischier? If you add up Nico's last 3 seasons goal totals he has what Robertson scored THIS year....41.

Let alone Pettersson who leads the draft glass in points with a .9 PPG over 245 games. Nobody anywhere would have Pettersson behind Nico.

But I think the point of the article was with pick #3, #26 and #39 the Stars made significant progress to rebuild their team with a starting goalie, a top pairing Dman and a 1st line forward in 1 draft...

3 players who are all arguably better than our #1...We also had #36 we got Boqvist they got Robertson at #39 who has clearly produced at levels Nico doesn't seem cable of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdj12784

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
22,675
50,599
Took a bit of time for most of those players to make their way into the lineup, usually the age 22-23 season as the first impactful season, if not later. If a guy like Zetterlund is for real, it will be 6-7 years from his draft.

I don't think anyone is going to argue against the idea that a team should continually draft well. But both of these cup final teams have only a handful of first or second year players in the mix (Foote, Newhook, Byram), all of whom are higher skill blue chips in their organization. And how many of those long term bottom six guys make the transition J. Boqvist is undergoing (fast skill guy to checker)? Just seems like an easier task to identify NHL-level character guys vs. attempting to read the tea leaves on them at the draft.

But yeah, I don't think you can just continue to dump 1sts to win on those character guys at the deadline. That's not exactly a strategy though I'm kind of impressed Tampa's been able to do it well.

To me top organizations draft well, identify smart FA signings, do player development well, make value UFA signings… it’s everything.

Complimentary players can come from all of those places and you can’t rush that process.

To me you target elite talent where it’s most found, in the first two rounds and then make sure you come out of the draft with potential offense production and play drivers but you two-way players too.

Shouldn’t draft plugs but drafting only guys who are so finesse that they are top 6 wingers or bust is not going to work out for you.
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

Registered User
Aug 24, 2020
15,704
20,701
Nico wouldn't go top 5 in a redraft. Makar, Miro, Petterson and Robertson all go ahead of him and a case could be made for Jake Oettinger > Nico as well. We need to stop trying to validate Nico as a first overall pick, at the time, he was the right pick. He was BPA + most safe player for a team trying to prove to Taylor Hall that they were ready to win asap. Hell, 50 points out of the gate as a 1C but there's no shame in other guys jumping his development. I still like him as our captain and 2C but we don't have to be homers about it, lol.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mdj12784

ZachaFlockaFlame

Registered User
Aug 24, 2020
15,704
20,701
Honest question...How do you put a guy that has scored 40+ goals and a high of 79 points while averaging near point per game throughout his career (.98 ppg) behind Hischier? If you add up Nico's last 3 seasons goal totals he has what Robertson scored THIS year....41.

Let alone Pettersson who leads the draft glass in points with a .9 PPG over 245 games. Nobody anywhere would have Pettersson behind Nico.

But I think the point of the article was with pick #3, #26 and #39 the Stars made significant progress to rebuild their team with a starting goalie, a top pairing Dman and a 1st line forward in 1 draft...

3 players who are all arguably better than our #1...We also had #36 we got Boqvist they got Robertson at #39 who has clearly produced at levels Nico doesn't seem cable of.

Their responsibilities are nowhere near the same on a NHL rink, that's like asking why Mikko Rantanen outscores a center in his 2015 draft class. Agreed on the other points though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad