Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[AfroThunder396]

Pettersen was absolutely dreadful the first half of this season - 17 points in 37 games is far worse than Nico's worst performance. Even with a broken leg, broken face, and COVID he did better with 11 points in 21 games in 2021.

Pettersen did not crack the top-100 in ES points this season. Bratt, Hischier, and Sharangovich all produced better than him at ES. Pettersen's 27 PP points, however, inflate his point totals far more than Hischier's 12 PP points.

Petterssen's career ES points/game is only 0.044 points per game better than Nico's, a difference of ~3.6 points over an 82 game season. The difference in their production is purely power play.

People don't appreciate how horrendously dysfunctional our PP was this season and it's almost entirely due to Recchi. Hischier would have easily been at or above a point per game with a competent power play. The fact he scored as much as he did through mostly ES production is pretty astonishing.

 

[Eggtimer]

Who cares about the re-draft . Every single team in the league can look at any draft and say they would do things different if you knew how things would eventually work out.
That’s like me saying I wished i invested in Tesla stock years ago amd now I’m regretting it and constantly bringing it up and stressing about it .
You cannot beat yourself up about things you cannot control or predict.
It could have been worse. We could have had the Bruins 2015 draft.
I am happy with Nico. Yes it would be better if we had Makar now instead , but no way anyone could have predicted that Makar would be as good as he is now. Pick #1 was between Nico and Patrick. Everyone here would have lost their mind if we took Makar and he ended up like a Gudbransen , while Nico went on to be elite. The Devils did what they should have. No way were we in a position to take a massive risk on a player that came from a junior A league in Alberta…. We HAD to hit on our pick and Nico was the safer pick . No GM in the world wo have went that far off the board and passes on Nico Patrick and went with Makar #1 especially when their team was desperate to add talent and could not afford to miss on their pick.

Yes it sucks in hindsight , but in the history of the draft , there are about 384737274 cases of where teams “screwed up” when looking back on the draft years down the road.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Pettersen was absolutely dreadful the first half of this season - 17 points in 37 games is far worse than Nico's worst performance. Even with a broken leg, broken face, and COVID he did better with 11 points in 21 games in 2021.

Pettersen did not crack the top-100 in ES points this season. Bratt, Hischier, and Sharangovich all produced better than him at ES. Pettersen's 27 PP points, however, inflate his point totals far more than Hischier's 12 PP points.

Petterssen's career ES points/game is only 0.044 points per game better than Nico's, a difference of ~3.6 points over an 82 game season. The difference in their production is purely power play.

People don't appreciate how horrendously dysfunctional our PP was this season and it's almost entirely due to Recchi. Hischier would have easily been at or above a point per game with a competent power play. The fact he scored as much as he did through mostly ES production is pretty astonishing.

Yeah, the wild part is Nico's best powerplay output came under Kowalsky. Not even Ward and definitely not under Recchi. Also he's usually either net front of the bumper spot too which our power plays don't run through as much as other good powerplays do.

 

[Azathoth]

I think if you go back and look at past drafts that don't have McJesus or Matthews, its not really all that uncommon to not end up with the best player with the 1OA.

I also think its a little early to re-draft 2017 considering some of the guys that now all of a sudden better than Nico have only played 1 82 game season. Robertson is a fantastic player but its little premature to anoint him a perennial 40 goal player after one 41 goal season, especially when he was only pace for 27 goals in 20-21.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Fun fact: over their first 300 games, Nico has the same amount of points (206) as Nate MacKinnon did over his first 300 games.

Nico is also fairly close in point production to Sasha Barkov at the same stage of their careers, I'm just to lazy to do the exact calculations.

I'll rip on him too when the team is down in the dumps, but given that the only realistic alternative to drafting Nico was Nolan Patrick, the scouting staff did its job.

 

[JrFischer54]

2017 NHL Redraft: Makar at No. 1, three current Stars players in top six | NHL.com

Defenseman moves up three spots; Heiskanen, Robertson, Oettinger rise; Swayman jumps from No. 111 to No. 8

www.nhl.com

dang nico down to 9? and i thought i was being too harsh on him lol though it does reaffirm what i said about him weeks ago and got trashed for it. smh

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I would absolutely 100% take Nico over Pettersson AND Heiskanen.

 

[McDuffz88]

dang nico down to 9? and i thought i was being too harsh on him lol though it does reaffirm what i said about him weeks ago and got trashed for it. smh

To be fair this guy has Suzuki 2 spots above Nico which is just wrong. Nico & Suzuki are similar players but Nico had a higher ppg this year & had the same amount of points but in 10 less games. It comes off as completely biased to put Suzuki multiple spots above Nico when currently Nico is the better player.

 

[JimEIV]

dang nico down to 9? and i thought i was being too harsh on him lol though it does reaffirm what i said about him weeks ago and got trashed for it. smh

I don't even think that is the important part...

I think Dallas getting a starting goalie, a #1 Dman and a 1st line ppg forward with their first 3 picks in 2017 when we've been at this for going on 8 years with 2 #1 overalls and STILL haven't gotten that kind of quality on the ice highlights how shitty this thing has gone for us.

 

[RCPXP]

Philly will prioritize going after Johnny G. Maybe if they strike out on him , they look at Anderson , but they have cap issues and will have to move out JVR if they want Johnny. Hopefully they do something stupid and trade Provolov out west. The crappier they are the better.

I'm afraid by hiring Tortorella they may have used up all their stupid for one offseason.

 

[JrFischer54]

I don't even think that is the important part...

I think Dallas getting a starting goalie, a #1 Dman and a 1st line ppg forward with their first 3 picks in 2017 when we've been at this for going on 8 years with 2 #1 overalls and STILL haven't gotten that kind of quality on the ice highlights how shitty this thing has gone for us.

this is really spot on and i couldn't agree more.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Just found out there are some players that may be better than Nico Hischier

 

[MachoDiablo]

It's fun to strip any and all context away when discussing recent draft outcomes.

Oh, wait, sorry, I mixed that up with "a titanic waste of time."

Here, this is much more productive.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Like I said the other day, how much different would the Devils right now be if they had Makar over Hischier? They likely don't make the playoffs in 2018 without Nico

I don't get the point in doing this type of exercise. Its only going to make you mad....especially given that it was always going to be Nico or Nolan and they made the right choice.

 

[JimEIV]

I think if you go back and look at past drafts that don't have McJesus or Matthews, its not really all that uncommon to not end up with the best player with the 1OA.

I also think its a little early to re-draft 2017 considering some of the guys that now all of a sudden better than Nico have only played 1 82 game season. Robertson is a fantastic player but its little premature to anoint him a perennial 40 goal player after one 41 goal season, especially when he was only pace for 27 goals in 20-21.

27 goal pace was his rookie season. He also had a .88 points per game as a rookie where he finish 2nd in Calder voting to Kaprizov. It wasn't really a race but he was unanimously the 2nd best rookie with 94 2nd place votes.

Place	Player	Age	Tm	Pos	Votes	Vote%	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	G	A	PTS	+/-	W	L	T/O	GAA	SV%	OPS	DPS	GPS	PS
1	Kirill Kaprizov	23	MIN	LW	997	99.70	99	1	0	0	0	27	24	51	10						5.4	1.3	0.0	6.7
2	Jason Robertson	21	DAL	LW	689	68.90	1	94	3	2	0	17	28	45	13						4.0	1.5	0.0	5.6

This was his 2nd full season and he produced 41 goals and 79 points...The last 3 years combined Nico has exactly 41 goals.

We don't have a single forward that has scored anywhere near 40 goals...And this guy was taken 3 spots after Boqvist.

 

[Hisch13r]

Nico wouldn't go top 5 in a redraft. Makar, Miro, Petterson and Robertson all go ahead of him and a case could be made for Jake Oettinger > Nico as well. We need to stop trying to validate Nico as a first overall pick, at the time, he was the right pick. He was BPA + most safe player for a team trying to prove to Taylor Hall that they were ready to win asap. Hell, 50 points out of the gate as a 1C but there's no shame in other guys jumping his development. I still like him as our captain and 2C but we don't have to be homers about it, lol.

Oettinger does not go over Nico yet. Nico's arguably 5 but also who cares. The expectation was never superstar so it's far from surprising he isn't the best. He was the right pick at the time which is what actually matters. Looking at things with hindsight is f***ing stupid

Like I said the other day, how much different would the Devils right now be if they had Makar over Hischier? They likely don't make the playoffs in 2018 without Nico

I don't get the point in doing this type of exercise. Its only going to make you mad....especially given that it was always going to be Nico or Nolan and they made the right choice.

Oh no they don't get bounced in 5 games. The horror. Redrafting with hindsight is a dumb exercise. I completely agree there. If you're going to do it though acting like making the playoffs for one year where you got clowned in the playoffs matters literally at all is hilarious.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Oettinger does not go over Nico yet. Nico's arguably 5 but also who cares. The expectation was never superstar so it's far from surprising he isn't the best. He was the right pick at the time which is what actually matters. Looking at things with hindsight is f***ing stupid

Agreed, as someone said unless it's a McDavid/Bedard/Crosby the chances that the number 1 overall pick winds up being the best player Is very low. They're going to the worst situation in most cases and that could stunt that players development, etc. Obviously he doesn't go 1 in a redraft but he's still a good player.

 

[ninetyeight]

Oh great this topic again, lets whine some more so maybe they'll pick Makar instead of Nico.

Bunch of guys who don't follow drafts and prospects complaining why we don't have the best players in the world. Go root for the Avs if it's so terrible being a Devils fan. Only thing worse than losing is having to read grown ass men cry about it every day.

 

[VoidCreature]

Trying to litigate how drafting a different player would impact the team now involves too many variables for me. Makar is clearly the better player than Nico but switching the two would effect where we ended up in the standings in subsequent years. If we're even one spot off in 2019 we don't get Hughes.

 

[Blackjack]

Does anyone know if Flyers fans scream and cry about Cale Makar? Feel like they'd be way more justifiably frustrated with what they have to show for their lottery win that year.

 

[JimEIV]

It's not really about relitigating the 2017 draft...It's more about how shitty the quality we've gotten from the draft....

Which one of plethora of our picks is better than Jason Roberson? Jack? I'd except that but still hasn't score 40 goals or 79 points...Same for Bratt...Then what? Who is the starting goalie we've drafter? Who is the top pair D we've drafted? Dallas did that in 3 picks in 2017...We've been doing this since 2015 with nothing close to the results of Robertson.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Does anyone know if Flyers fans scream and cry about Cale Makar? Feel like they'd be way more justifiably frustrated with what they have to show for their lottery win that year.

Wild part is they had two first rounders and both could be considered busts for them in Patrick/Frost.

It's not really about relitigating the 2017 draft...It's more about how shitty the quality we've gotten from the draft....

Which one of plethora of our picks is better than Jason Roberson? Jack? I'd except that but still hasn't score 40 goals or 79 points...Same for Bratt...Then what? Who is the starting goalie we've drafter? Who is the top pair D we've drafted? Dallas did that in 3 picks in 2017...We've been doing this since 2015 with nothing close to the results of Robertson.

I legit don't think anyone's gonna argue our drafting has been shit but comparing your team to other teams doing well is just gonna drive you insane. Best thing you can hope for as a Devils fan is that it was just an insane rough patch and that it eventually turns around because sports are cyclic.

 

[Blackjack]

It's not really about relitigating the 2017 draft...It's more about how shitty the quality we've gotten from the draft....

Which one of plethora of our picks is better than Jason Roberson? Jack? I'd except that but still hasn't score 40 goals or 79 points...Same for Bratt...Then what? Who is the starting goalie we've drafter? Who is the top pair D we've drafted? Dallas did that in 3 picks in 2017...We've been doing this since 2015 with nothing close to the results of Robertson.

Jason Robertson had six more even strength goals than Yegor Sharangovich last year. If you want to know why our young players aren't putting up bigger counting stats, look no further than Mark Recci.

 

[megajake]

I think it's fairly obvious we have a terrible scouting team. And no, getting one late round pick correct in Bratt doesn't make up for all the other mess.

 

[Eggtimer]

We are “due” to have a draft like the Stars did that year.
I’m sick of other teams hitting on their later picks and up getting a franchise altering player in later rounds while for the most part we whiff.
Yes I am being greedy as we “hit” on Bratt but there has been more misses than hits. That’s one true gem in the past 20 years. (Shara is a “nice” player to het but no where near some of these other guys like Kucherov etc.

Or at least it sure the hell feels like it. Seems like we suck at an unlucky time where when there is a legit stud dominant force at the top of the draft , we miss out.
It just feels like we go for the safe choice in later rounds instead of the boom or bust types. That or we take the 5’3” water bug with skill . Im probably wrong if I took a look at our late round drafting in later rounds but it sure feels like we suck at drafting.