Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[SteveCangialosi123]

I think it's fairly obvious we have a terrible scouting team. And no, getting one late round pick correct in Bratt doesn't make up for all the other mess.

That is not obvious to me whatsoever.

 

[StevenToddIves]

dang nico down to 9? and i thought i was being too harsh on him lol though it does reaffirm what i said about him weeks ago and got trashed for it. smh

That list is idiotic. In a 2017 redraft I take Nico top 3.

1 Makar (duh)
2 Heiskanen
3 Hischier
4 Pettersson
5 Suzuki
6 Robertson
7 Oettinger
8 Thomas
9 Necas
10 Swayman

I'll accept an argument about Pettersson or Suzuki being a shade better offensively than Hischier, but Nico is the best two-way C in the 2017 class -- and that's huge. If the Blues called the Devils and offered Thomas-plus for Nico, the Devils would still hang up the phone.

To be fair this guy has Suzuki 2 spots above Nico which is just wrong. Nico & Suzuki are similar players but Nico had a higher ppg this year & had the same amount of points but in 10 less games. It comes off as completely biased to put Suzuki multiple spots above Nico when currently Nico is the better player.

Yeah, but Suzuki plays in a bigger market which apparently makes him the better player.

 

[Alex NJD]

That article ranks Cal Foote over Ferraro and Joker, either the writer is blind or doesn't even watch these guys play. Foote and Liligren played lower minutes on sheltered 3rd pairings on top contenders. Ferraro and Joker played much larger minutes but played for lottery teams. Necas over Norris and Batherson is also questionable. I bet if you change some of the teams these guys play for the rankings would look vastly different.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think it's fairly obvious we have a terrible scouting team. And no, getting one late round pick correct in Bratt doesn't make up for all the other mess.

Shara's been kind of a hit too. No he hasn't had the season Bratt had last year to date and he started out older but a 5th round pick being a top six forward deserves to be mentioned in the same paragraph.

 

[Hisch13r]

I think it's fairly obvious we have a terrible scouting team. And no, getting one late round pick correct in Bratt doesn't make up for all the other mess.

Last 2 years has not been all that great beyond Holtz, Mercer, Hughes. Ray’s tenure was great. McLeod was always a bad pick. Ty hasn’t worked out but was a good pick at the time. The picks beyond the first round were among the best in the league

 

[Eggtimer]

It's not really about relitigating the 2017 draft...It's more about how shitty the quality we've gotten from the draft....

Which one of plethora of our picks is better than Jason Roberson? Jack? I'd except that but still hasn't score 40 goals or 79 points...Same for Bratt...Then what? Who is the starting goalie we've drafter? Who is the top pair D we've drafted? Dallas did that in 3 picks in 2017...We've been doing this since 2015 with nothing close to the results of Robertson.

I’m with ya brother. Maybe it’s just the current phase I am at in the grieving process of the Devils sucking for yet another year and I’m in the anger phase right now.
Im sick of seeing other teams around us succeeding while we spin our tires.
Yes we have some very nice pieces to look forward to but I question if we could have done better, sooner , and when I think about what we could have done differently i look at our drafting and I’m not overlly pumped about it.
Some picks were perfect ( or at least the best realistic pick was made at the time ) ,but after that there is a lot of crap picks we have made.
Some are too early to tell yet (Shakir Stillman) and we have made some nice ones (Gritsyuk Luke Mercer ) but we have a ton of duds as well .

How do other teams remain competitive and get elite pieces when they draft lower than us ? I dont get it. Maybe I’m not looking at it correctly and I’m not being fair . But it’s hard not to be a little negative.

When is the last time we drafted a good goalie ? Brodeur ? That was in what , 1989 or 1990?

 

[Hisch13r]

Shara's been kind of a hit too. No he hasn't had the season Bratt had last year to date, but his first two years were more productive than Bratt's seasons till this year.

I mean age is a factor in this. Bratt broke in at 19 vs Yegor at 22. They're only 2 months apart. Bratt was more productive last year in 2021 than either of Yegor's years. It's not like Yegor needs to be Bratt to be considered a hit either. Yegor isn't "kind of a hit". He is a hit. At the very least he's a solid middle 6er and you take that without question for a 5th rounder.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Does anyone know if Flyers fans scream and cry about Cale Makar? Feel like they'd be way more justifiably frustrated with what they have to show for their lottery win that year.

Yes they do. You do not remember Bobby Clarke going off on Hextall saying he overruled the scouts and took Patrick?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Oettinger does not go over Nico yet. Nico's arguably 5 but also who cares. The expectation was never superstar so it's far from surprising he isn't the best. He was the right pick at the time which is what actually matters. Looking at things with hindsight is f***ing stupid



Oh no they don't get bounced in 5 games. The horror. Redrafting with hindsight is a dumb exercise. I completely agree there. If you're going to do it though acting like making the playoffs for one year where you got clowned in the playoffs matters literally at all is hilarious.

I didnt say that it mattered...it was just a statement

I Asked if the Devils would be better off right now with Makar vs with Nico. Would they have been literally any better the past few years? I say no.

 

[Hisch13r]

Yes they do. You do not remember Bobby Clarke going off on Hextall saying he overruled the scouts and took Patrick?

Funny thing about that is that it wasn't even Makar they wanted. It was Heiskanen. Obviously still better than Nolan but the senile old man couldn't even get the name right. Wouldn't be the first time he got a guys name wrong when it comes to the draft.

 

[megajake]

That is not obvious to me whatsoever.

Agree to disagree I suppose. We have been rebuilding forever and had to fill a #1 D hole with a free agent signing, and might be the same case with a #1 winger. And we still aren't a playoff team.

Shara's been kind of a hit too. No he hasn't had the season Bratt had last year to date and he started out older but a 5th round pick being a top six forward deserves to be mentioned in the same paragraph.

Yeah that's fair with Shara. He's solid, just so many whiffs outside of first overall picks. All this missing has lead to continuous failure.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I don't even think that is the important part...

I think Dallas getting a starting goalie, a #1 Dman and a 1st line ppg forward with their first 3 picks in 2017 when we've been at this for going on 8 years with 2 #1 overalls and STILL haven't gotten that kind of quality on the ice highlights how shitty this thing has gone for us.

Let's rank the 2017 draft by team, then.

#1 Colorado: Cale Makar is the best player in this draft and the best D in the NHL and the Avs got him 4 picks into the draft, so they win the draft. They also got Connor Timmins in the 2nd round, he should be a good 3rd pairing RD though the multiple health issues have slowed him. The rest of the Avs picks stunk, but they still win on Makar alone.

#2 Dallas: While you're lauding Dallas, you forget they chose a defenseman and took Heiskanen over Makar. That's just an awful pick -- as good as Heiskanen is, he's nowhere close to Makar. But yes, they got the best goaltender in the draft with Oettinger and the best scoring winger with Robertson, so they come in at #2.

#3 New Jersey: Yes -- New Jersey. Nico Hischier is a top 3 or 4 (depending on how you rank him and Pettersson) player in the draft, and one of the better two-way centers in the NHL. In addition to this, the Devils got their likely 2022-23 3rd line C in Jesper Boqvist, a very promising gritty bottom 6 forward in Zetterlund, another possible future 4th line guy in Talvitie and a D with NHL upside doing quite well in Russia in Zaitsev. Reilly Walsh also might have an NHL future, but I'm not sure it will be in New Jersey.

#4 Vancouver: Pettersson was a great pick at #6, and Rathbone was the best skater in the 4th round -- he's got middle-6 potential at the NHL level. DiPietro is a smallish goalie who could become an NHL back-up, while Lind and Gadjovich look like solid NHL depth forwards.

#5 Boston: Swayman in the 4th is highway robbery -- he looks like a terrific goalie and the future in net for the B's. Vaakanainen could be a solid 3rd pairing defender and Studnicka could be a solid NHL 3rd line center. That's a nice haul for such a weak draft year.

Essentially, I'm not sure why we are complaining about the best draft in the conference and the 3rd best draft in the NHL.

I mean, imagine being a Philly fan -- they had #2 overall and 3 picks in the top 35 and didn't get a single top 6 forward or NHL defenseman. How about the Rangers? They picked at #7 and #21 overall and came away with a mega-bust (Andersson) and a good bottom 6 forward (Chytil). Detroit? Their first of 11 picks was at #9 and they came away with a 3rd line forward (Rasmussen), a depth D (Gustav Lindstrom) and a whole lot of garbage.

The Devils are absolutely among the winners of the 2017 draft.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Agree to disagree I suppose. We have been rebuilding forever and had to fill a #1 D hole with a free agent signing, and might be the same case with a #1 winger. And we still aren't a playoff team.


Yeah that's fair with Shara. He's solid, just so many whiffs outside of first overall picks. All this missing has lead to continuous failure.

#1 Ds are extremely difficult to draft and we have one of the most promising young defensemen in the world in our system. Jesper Bratt is a #1 wing, drafted in the 6th round. We aren’t a playoff team because of goaltending and we’re the youngest team in the league. How long do you think it typically takes for drafted players to start contributing?

 

[JimEIV]

Let's rank the 2017 draft by team, then.

#1 Colorado: Cale Makar is the best player in this draft and the best D in the NHL and the Ads got him 4 picks into the draft, so they win the draft. They also got Connor Timmins in the 2nd round, he should be a good 3rd pairing RD though the multiple health issues have slowed him. The rest of the Avs picks stunk, but they still win on Makar alone.

#2 Dallas: While you're lauding Dallas, you forget they chose a defenseman and took Heiskanen over Makar. That's just an awful pick -- as good as Heiskanen is, he's nowhere close to Makar. But yes, they got the best goaltender in the draft with Oettinger and the best scoring winger with Robertson, so they come in at #2.

#3 New Jersey: Yes -- New Jersey. Nico Hischier is a top 3 or 4 (depending on how you rank him and Pettersson) player in the draft, and one of the better two-way centers in the NHL. In addition to this, the Devils got their likely 2022-23 3rd line C in Jesper Boqvist, a very promising gritty bottom 6 forward in Zetterlund, another possible future 4th line guy in Talvitie and a D with NHL upside doing quite well in Russia in Zaitsev. Reilly Walsh also might have an NHL future, but I'm not sure it will be in New Jersey.

#4 Vancouver: Pettersson was a great pick at #6, and Rathbone was the best skater in the 4th round -- he's got middle-6 potential at the NHL level. DiPietro is a smallish goalie who could become an NHL back-up, while Lind and Gadjovich look like solid NHL depth forwards.

#5 Boston: Swayman in the 4th is highway robbery -- he looks like a terrific goalie and the future in net for the B's. Vaakanainen could be a solid 3rd pairing defender and Studnicka could be a solid NHL 3rd line center. That's a nice haul for such a weak draft year.

Essentially, I'm not sure why we are complaining about the best draft in the conference and the 3rd best draft in the NHL.

I mean, imagine being a Philly fan -- they had #2 overall and 3 picks in the top 35 and didn't get a single top 6 forward or NHL defenseman. How about the Rangers? They picked at #7 and #21 overall and came away with a mega-bust (Andersson) and a good bottom 6 forward (Chytil). Detroit? Their first of 11 picks was at #9 and they came away with a 3rd line forward (Rasmussen), a depth D (Gustav Lindstrom) and a whole lot of garbage.

The Devils are absolutely among the winners of the 2017 draft.

How does this negate the fact that we've gotten so little quality from the draft?

That's my point. And having some Zetterlund's, Holtz's, Okhotyuk's in the stable doesn't make it better.

Drafting one Jason Robertson is worth more than our entire prospect pool in my opinion...when you have had picks #6, #11, #1, #17, #1, #7 #4 and now#2 and 50 other picks to go along with that and the best product to date is Jesper Bratt this season you messed up.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I think it's fairly obvious we have a terrible scouting team. And no, getting one late round pick correct in Bratt doesn't make up for all the other mess.

The Devils currently have the best under-23 center tandem in the league with Hughes and Hischier. They have two terrific under-25 wingers in Bratt and Sharangovich. Last year, they brought up a stud top-6 forward in Mercer, and some promising depth forwards in Boqvist, Zetterlund and Thompson.

Beyond that, the Devils prospect pool is arguably top 3 in the NHL, and that's even before a likely pick of Juraj Slafkovsky, which will possibly vault the Devils to #1 overall.

If we look at the other top 5 prospect lists:

BUFFALO:
1 Power 2 Quinn 3 Peterka 4 Rosen 5 Levi
OTTAWA:
1 Sanderson 2 Pinto 3 Greig 4 Thomson 5 Sogaard
LA:
1 Byfield 2 Clarke 3 Faber 4 Chromiak 5 Turcotte
ANAHEIM:
1 McTavish 2 Perreault 3 Pastujov 4 Zellweger 5 Thrun
DETROIT:
1 Edvinsson 2 Cossa 3 Mazur 4 Buium 5 Soderblum

And then we look at the Devils:
DEVILS:
1 L. Hughes 2 Holtz 3 Gritsyuk 4 Mukhamadullin 5 Okhotyuk

Well, I'd say the top 3 there is certainly some ordering of the Devils, LA and Buffalo.

Could the Devils have made some better picks? Sure -- Stillman was a stretch last year at #29 and Salminen was a stretch at #68. The entire back end of the 2020 draft was awful. But all of these teams made mistakes in recent drafts.

I mean, Ottawa's 2021 draft -- with Tyler freaking Boucher at #10 overall -- is one of the worst drafts in recent NHL memory. Anaheim took Colangelo at #36 in 2020 and the next 10 picks included multiple 1st rounders in a re-draft: Khusnutdinov, Bordeleau, Evangelista and Faber. Detroit is just a few years removed from taking Filip Zadina one pick ahead of Quinn Hughes. LA mis-scouted the US-NTDP and passed on Zegras for Turcotte. Buffalo is not too far off having consecutive #8 overall picks and coming away with next-to-nothing: Alex Nylander and Casey Mittlestadt.

So let's not kill ourselves wringing our hands over who we could have had at every pick in every draft. The Devils have a top 3 prospect pool in the league and a very bright future. There's more work still to do, but would you rather be Philadelphia right now?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

the Devils aren't bad right now because of drafting the previous 4-5 years.

they are bad right now because of drafting from the prior 10-15 years.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Last 2 years has not been all that great beyond Holtz, Mercer, Hughes. Ray’s tenure was great. McLeod was always a bad pick. Ty hasn’t worked out but was a good pick at the time. The picks beyond the first round were among the best in the league

Well, I'm admittedly still a bit heartache-y about passing on K'Andre Miller. I would have sprinted to the podium to take him at #17 in 2018.

When is the last time we drafted a good goalie ? Brodeur ? That was in what , 1989 or 1990?

Mike Dunham, dude.

 

[MadDevil]

Oh, good the weekly "Shero sucks!" argument...again. Some of you really need to find a new hobby.

 

[StevenToddIves]

How does this negate the fact that we've gotten so little quality from the draft?

That's my point. And having some Zetterlund's, Holtz's, Okhotyuk's in the stable doesn't make it better.

Drafting one Jason Robertson is worth more than our entire prospect pool in my opinion...when you have had picks #6, #11, #1, #17, #1, #7 #4 and now#2 and 50 other picks to go along with that and the best product to date is Jesper Bratt this season you messed up.

Luke Hughes is quite honestly the closest thing to Cale Makar since Cale Makar. That's not quality? Jack Hughes was the best #1 overall pick between Matthews and Bedard. That's not quality? Nico Hischier is one of the top two-way centers in the league. That's not quality? Dawson Mercer is one of the best young forwards in the league. That's not quality? The Devils have a top 3 prospect pool in the NHL. That's not quality? Jesper Bratt is a first-line forward taken with a 6th round pick. That's not quality? Yegor Sharangovich is a top 6 forward taken with a 5th round pick. That's not quality?

I'm not sure what the complaint is here. At least 30 teams in the league would trade their prospect pool for ours. Every rebuilding team in the league would trade their top 2 centers for our top 2 centers.

Sure the Devils have not nailed every pick. No one does. I'd love to go back in time to 2018 and take K'Andre Miller over Ty Smith, I'd love to go back in time to last year and take Scott Morrow or Aatu Raty over Chase Stillman. But there are also a ton of teams which would like to go back in time and take Bratt, Gritsyuk and Sharangovich over their own first round picks.

 

[Cheddabombs]

It's not really about relitigating the 2017 draft...It's more about how shitty the quality we've gotten from the draft....

Which one of plethora of our picks is better than Jason Roberson? Jack? I'd except that but still hasn't score 40 goals or 79 points...Same for Bratt...Then what? Who is the starting goalie we've drafter? Who is the top pair D we've drafted? Dallas did that in 3 picks in 2017...We've been doing this since 2015 with nothing close to the results of Robertson.

The irony here is amazing

 

[Triumph]

I don't even think that is the important part...

I think Dallas getting a starting goalie, a #1 Dman and a 1st line ppg forward with their first 3 picks in 2017 when we've been at this for going on 8 years with 2 #1 overalls and STILL haven't gotten that kind of quality on the ice highlights how shitty this thing has gone for us.

And where's Dallas at, organizationally? They're a middle of the road team. Johnston and Stankoven look excellent as prospects, but the Stars whiffed 2016 and 2018 so far also, and they like us fumbled their pick in 2015 that should've been the door to a top line player but wasn't.

2017 is a great draft for Dallas. 2020 might be also. They're not likely to be going anywhere.

 

[JimEIV]

Luke Hughes is quite honestly the closest thing to Cale Makar since Cale Makar. That's not quality? Jack Hughes was the best #1 overall pick between Matthews and Bedard. That's not quality? Nico Hischier is one of the top two-way centers in the league. That's not quality? Dawson Mercer is one of the best young forwards in the league. That's not quality? The Devils have a top 3 prospect pool in the NHL. That's not quality? Jesper Bratt is a first-line forward taken with a 6th round pick. That's not quality? Yegor Sharangovich is a top 6 forward taken with a 5th round pick. That's not quality?

I'm not sure what the complaint is here. At least 30 teams in the league would trade their prospect pool for ours. Every rebuilding team in the league would trade their top 2 centers for our top 2 centers.

Sure the Devils have not nailed every pick. No one does. I'd love to go back in time to 2018 and take K'Andre Miller over Ty Smith, I'd love to go back in time to last year and take Scott Morrow or Aatu Raty over Chase Stillman. But there are also a ton of teams which would like to go back in time and take Bratt, Gritsyuk and Sharangovich over their own first round picks.

We won't know what Luke actually is for another 3 years. Hopefully the #2 can produce better quicker than our other 2 #1 did.

Bratt has been a wonderful find. 73 points is awesome and it's the best season we've had from a drafted player since Elias had 78 points in the 2012 season...that in and of itself paints the picture perfectly of the lack of quality we've gotten from a boat load of picks and extremely high ones. 1. Beyond that we don't have a single forward who has cracked 60 points. We don't have a single player that has cracked 26 goals either.... That's after drafting at the very top of the draft for the majority of the last 7 years and 8 with this one.

2. We don't have a single drafted top 4 defenseman in the lineup and it's extremely questionable that we have one in the system aside from Luke. Well Severson technically is but you know what I mean.

3. We have been drafting goalies every year for the last 7 years and it's extremely questionable that we have a starter or even a backup anywhere in the system.

It's nice to be hopeful but there is very little tangible success or high end production to point to. You can keep using adjectives like best and terrific but it's just storytime until we see the production and success

 

[Triumph]

We won't know what Luke actually is for another 3 years. Hopefully the #2 can produce better quicker than our other 2 #1 did.

Bratt has been a wonderful find. 73 points is awesome and it's the best season we've had from a drafted player since Elias had 78 points in the 2012 season...that in and of itself paints the picture perfectly of the lack of quality we've gotten from a boat load of picks and extremely high ones. 1. Beyond that we don't have a single forward who has cracked 60 points. We don't have a single player that has cracked 26 goals either.... That's after drafting at the very top of the draft for the majority of the last 7 years and 8 with this one.

2. We don't have a single drafted top 4 defenseman in the lineup and it's extremely questionable that we have one in the system aside from Luke. Well Severson technically is but you know what I mean.

3. We have been drafting goalies every year for the last 7 years and it's extremely questionable that we have a starter or even a backup anywhere in the system.

It's nice to be hopeful but there is very little tangible success or high end production to point to. You can keep using adjectives like best and terrific but it's just storytime until we see the production and success

I think bookmarking this will be useful. I think you know how dumb this sounds, but when it's thrown back in your face after next season, I don't think there'll be much you'll have to say about it.

 

[Devils731]

 

[JimEIV]

I think bookmarking this will be useful. I think you know how dumb this sounds, but when it's thrown back in your face after next season, I don't think there'll be much you'll have to say about it.

What can be "throw back in my face" facts?

Who is the starting goalie in our system today? Who is top 4 defender not named Luke...I suppose any piece of garbage can be top 4 defender...we used John Moore as one for 3 years...

Beyond that everything else was just facts ...Bratt is the highest scoring single season drafted player since Elias 2012....we haven't had a single pick crack 26 goals or 60 points ...that includes 8 seasons from 2 #1OA"s.

Just facts. Maybe after 10 seasons from #1OA's and nearly 16 million in salary someone will crack 26 goals or 60 points..... freaking joke.