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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 training camp edition

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Triumph

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Puckclektr said:
It probably does mean zilch to him. But as to he isn’t going to go full tilt isn’t the best take. The star players actually try. If he half asses it what does that tell the management?
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It doesn't tell the management anything. He didn't go 100% in a double preseason game.

Puckclektr said:
Do you think players actually don’t try against players that are at the same calibre as them. He is the best at this calibre on the team and the tournament but he at his best isn’t just half assing it and being a top player. He isn’t playing mens shinny league. He played in the NCAA against players that rarely make the NHL. Most NCAA teams generally have one player on average that becomes a regular NHL player. More than half end up playing in Europe ECHL or retiring. This tournament normally has anywhere from 5-10 players that end up being regular NHLers and is top level talent palying the tournament of their life. I can tell you he isn’t half assing it.
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It is the tournament of their life for the invitees. I just do not think it is for someone drafted top 10, a guy who has played in WJCs and Frozen Fours and NHL playoff games and who know that they are going to be on the NHL roster in October.

It is something above shinny for sure but not by much. There's no systems in place. It's not competitive hockey, even if the players are trying hard, especially the players who don't have a contract.

Puckclektr said:
The devils had 7 players that have become NHL regulars from their 2019 NHL team with Jack Hughes and many players still playing at high level including players still having the opportunity to be regular NHL players.
These are the regular NCAA players that end up in the ECHL or retire after they graduate. These rosters are players that generally have successful hockey careers and are steps ahead of the players in the NCAA that have almost no chance.
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It's a neat tournament. I'm glad the Devils do it, I don't think Lou would've done something like this or at least I can't recall him doing it. They liked to keep everything in house - at development camp there used to be a ton of scrimmages. I just don't think top guys going to this are giving everything out there, which you seemed to implicitly acknowledge but then somehow backed off from.
 
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Puckclektr

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Triumph said:
It doesn't tell the management anything. He didn't go 100% in a double preseason game.



It is the tournament of their life for the invitees. I just do not think it is for someone drafted top 10, a guy who has played in WJCs and Frozen Fours and NHL playoff games and who know that they are going to be on the NHL roster in October.

It is something above shinny for sure but not by much. There's no systems in place. It's not competitive hockey, even if the players are trying hard, especially the players who don't have a contract.



It's a neat tournament. I'm glad the Devils do it, I don't think Lou would've done something like this or at least I can't recall him doing it. They liked to keep everything in house - at development camp there used to be a ton of scrimmages. I just don't think top guys going to this are giving everything out there, which you seemed to implicitly acknowledge but then somehow backed off from.
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I never said that top guys aren't giving their everythign out there. I said that this tournament is arguably the most important few games in the average players whole career and that it tends to be the guys with heart and determination that tend to be more noticiible than the skilled guys. Generally skilled guys get more notice, but in this tournament the defensive plays, hard work and physcial play is much more noticble than offensive plays then most hockey games at this level. Not becasue skilled guys don't try, but because the guys who don't have the skill want it more as they have more to prove.
These are the kinds of games that the Langebrunners, Blake Coleman and Okhotyuk excel at. Ty smith looked terrible while players like Okhotyuk stood out. Like I said earlier Marino made the team that year based on how good he was this tournament. He showed up being a potential average AHLer that year and was the best player in the tournament IMO and made the team.
 

Triumph

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Puckclektr said:
I never said that top guys aren't giving their everythign out there. I said that this tournament is arguably the most important few games in the average players whole career and that it tends to be the guys with heart and determination that tend to be more noticiible than the skilled guys. Generally skilled guys get more notice, but in this tournament the defensive plays, hard work and physcial play is much more noticble than offensive plays then most hockey games at this level. Not becasue skilled guys don't try, but because the guys who don't have the skill want it more as they have more to prove.
These are the kinds of games that the Langebrunners, Blake Coleman and Okhotyuk excel at. Ty smith looked terrible while players like Okhotyuk stood out. Like I said earlier Marino made the team that year based on how good he was this tournament. He showed up being a potential average AHLer that year and was the best player in the tournament IMO and made the team.
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Come on now. Pittsburgh traded a 6th round pick for Marino less than 3 weeks before he was set to be a UFA. That's a huge price to pay for a guy who was a 6th round pick himself 4 years ago. They may not have known he was going to make the team, but they definitely thought he had real promise. He did not make the team off that tournament - that is what started him on the path to making the team.

The reason why guys like Smith struggle and guys like Okhotiuk succeed is because there isn't structure. That's also why the offensive plays are less likely to work, nobody has any chemistry with their teammates.
 
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Puckclektr

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Triumph said:
Come on now. Pittsburgh traded a 6th round pick for Marino less than 3 weeks before he was set to be a UFA. That's a huge price to pay for a guy who was a 6th round pick himself 4 years ago. They may not have known he was going to make the team, but they definitely thought he had real promise. He did not make the team off that tournament - that is what started him on the path to making the team.

The reason why guys like Smith struggle and guys like Okhotiuk succeed is because there isn't structure. That's also why the offensive plays are less likely to work, nobody has any chemistry with their teammates.
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Yes and Marino proved it that tournament. He was THAT good. Skilled people also don’t need structure to succeed. They tend to have higher hockey IQ and follow more based off of creativity than structure. Less skilled guys are more focused on structure. Anyways. I’m done talking about This. We can just agree to disagree. Have a good night
 
Hischier and Hughes

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is Kallgren good enough to backup if we ended up getting Hellebuyck and sending Schmid down to start with Kinkaid behind him? o

or would we just keep Kinkaid up and send Kallgren down?

:spider:
 
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Gelbin Mekkatorque said:
is Kallgren good enough to backup if we ended up getting Hellebuyck and sending Schmid down to start with Kinkaid behind him? o

or would we just keep Kinkaid up and send Kallgren down?

:spider:
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Sir, you have a bug on your post.

IMG_0042.gif
 
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Hisch13r

Hisch13r

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Gelbin Mekkatorque said:
is Kallgren good enough to backup if we ended up getting Hellebuyck and sending Schmid down to start with Kinkaid behind him? o

or would we just keep Kinkaid up and send Kallgren down?

:spider:
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t count on either to backup. Would still be Schmid. You only send Schmid down if he sucks again or the reason that trade happens is the Jets suck and so they don’t want Vitek
 
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devilsblood

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Hisch13r said:
I knew it was a fluke in the moment. I spent all 17-18 waiting for the wheels to fall off. That team was rag tag as f*** and not good. Maybe they squeeze out another bubble year but no shot they’re ever a contender if they don’t keep bottoming out and being forced to rebuild after that
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This is so hindsighty.

We had guys in their mid 20's who looked pretty good. Hall, Palm's, Sev' Vats. Then a couple other guys like Coleman and Noesen who looked like they too could be good, or Mojo who we hoped could get back to being good.

Then a bunch of young guys like Nico, Bratt, Wood, Butcher and Zacha. And we had just drafted 20 guys in the previous 2 offseasons, including McLeod and Boq who we all thought pretty highly of.

If Schneid's and Kink (not to mention Hall and Vat's) don't fall off a cliff, there was good reason to think we would be able to build off that season and continue to be a playoff team.

Now did going on another 4 year top of the draft bender help us build what looks like it should be a true contender for the next decade+, well duh.
 

Triumph

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Forwards shouldn't do single digits below 8 and D shouldn't do numbers starting with 1. I am always going to think Nemec is a forward now - the good news is with a short name that's basically all easy to pick out letters and being a right-handed shot, I think he might get away with it.

Taylor Hall as 4 sucked, obviously he didn't do that here but it was bad on Edmonton.
 
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TF1970

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smart to not have luke going there. last season, buffalo had samuelsson play and he got injured then pretty sure he missed like the first month of the season.
 
Bleedred

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Gelbin Mekkatorque said:
is Kallgren good enough to backup if we ended up getting Hellebuyck and sending Schmid down to start with Kinkaid behind him? o

or would we just keep Kinkaid up and send Kallgren down?

:spider:
Click to expand...
No Kallgren. Kallgren is terrible at the NHL level. He’s not good enough to backup anybody up here. Why not just leave Schmid up to backup Hellebuyck in that case?
 
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HBK27

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Hisch13r said:
Right move to hold him back
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Yeah, I understood both sides of the argument but ultimately I think this was the correct call.

Nobody else on the Prospects Challenge roster had NHL experience, let alone NHL playoff experience, let alone was arguably the best player on the ice for the Devils in their final game last postseason.

Luke has a roster spot locked up - no need for him to go to this tournament.
 
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