Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 training camp edition

[Hisch13r]

96 is much cooler than 28 for a forward. Don’t switch Timo.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

A lot of them were reactions and rebellion over the couple of staunch supporters he had that would come and defend him over anything and got mad at me when I called out certain goals he allowed. One was super adamant he would be a starting goalie and better than Holtby. That actually came in a GDT when we were playing the Capitals. That poster said he'd be better than Holtby, which he kind of is now because Holtby hasn't played pro hockey in 2 years. As hard it was to believe even then, Kinkaid is actually 2.5 months older than Holtby is.

Kinkaid had some solid years here and some not so solid years here. He started out 17-18 like a real liability. It wasn't even until sometime in February where he really got cooking that year.

What happened to him in 18-19 was probably about what should have been expected. That was the second year in a row that we tried him out as a starter-ish/1a goalie (both years were because of Cory being injured, but also having his own struggles and being an even bigger liability at times) and it didn't go at all well like the first time. I remember him starting that year off just fine (I think he had 3 shutouts in October and 2 in his first 4 games that year), but getting worse and worse as the season went on. Whereas the year before it was the other way around.

His last year here felt like he just broke after a workload that was greater than he was capable of delivering at the NHL level, at least greater than he was capable of for the second straight year.

The reason why the following years after Hall's MVP felt like a fluke is because Schneider's body completely failed him. If we had an average Schneider, we're probably a bubble team or better yet even slowly growing into a contender with players on the outside seeing what NJ was building. Probably worked out best since 18-19 landed us Jack and now we look even better than a team with a good Schneider and an injury prone LW as their top player.

 

[glenwo2]

Oh dear Lord! KK being back, means a certain KK superfan is going to come out of the woodwork!

I forget..who was that superfan?

It's been awhile....

 

[Hisch13r]

The reason why the following years after Hall's MVP felt like a fluke is because Schneider's body completely failed him. If we had an average Schneider, we're probably a bubble team or better yet even slowly growing into a contender with players on the outside seeing what NJ was building. Probably worked out best since 18-19 landed us Jack and now we look even better than a team with a good Schneider and an injury prone LW as their top player.

I knew it was a fluke in the moment. I spent all 17-18 waiting for the wheels to fall off. That team was rag tag as f*** and not good. Maybe they squeeze out another bubble year but no shot they’re ever a contender if they don’t keep bottoming out and being forced to rebuild after that

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I knew it was a fluke in the moment. I spent all 17-18 waiting for the wheels to fall off. That team was rag tag as f*** and not good. Maybe they squeeze out another bubble year but no shot they’re ever a contender if they don’t keep bottoming out and being forced to rebuild after that

Yeah that's fair, but if Schneider doesn't die then you could theoretically do what the Islanders and Rags are doing rn but it depends what you think of them. They'd be more like the Islanders in that roster construction.

 

[Guadana]

I knew it was a fluke in the moment. I spent all 17-18 waiting for the wheels to fall off. That team was rag tag as f*** and not good. Maybe they squeeze out another bubble year but no shot they’re ever a contender if they don’t keep bottoming out and being forced to rebuild after that

Good line, hot goalie, luck. We were lucky with ending of that luck. Could be in much worser situation now.

 

[Triumph]

It’s not about being the best player it’s about how you react being the best player. Every single game he’s going to be the main target by the other team. Like I said every single player wants to take the puck or make a Luke Hughes look bad. It makes them look good when you make a great defensive play against a top offensive threat or make a nice offensive play against a top defensive prospect
And you guys Can laugh at me all you want about saying that I’m a good hockey player. Even playing pick up people want to take the puck off of me more than They want to take the puck off of other people.
Star players are targeted for a reason. I’m quite sure they want to see how he reacts in the situation under pressure.
Every single player out there is trying to impress every single person involved with that organization. You make Luke Hughes look stupid is better than making Riley Dawson look stupid. Many star players struggle with that pressure.

Stars typically *don't* struggle with that pressure because that's what makes them star players. What you're saying may be true of teenagers who can't make the jump to the professional ranks, who might be the best player in their area at 14 or 15 but can't get to the next level.

If Luke Hughes struggles in a prospect game it's because he's taking it at half-speed.

 

[Bleedred]

Yeah that's fair, but if Schneider doesn't die then you could theoretically do what the Islanders and Rags are doing rn but it depends what you think of them. They'd be more like the Islanders in that roster construction.

While Schneider did fall apart and fall apart very fast he did, I'm not sure he would have been of much use for much longer anyway.

His contract was to expire in 2022, when he was 36 years old. Even if he didn't decline quite as fast and weren't bought out, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have still been here last year.

Maybe if he hadn't fallen apart so fast (7 years ago now), he would still be playing in the NHL in 23-24, but it would almost definitely be as like what Halak was the last couple years or a one year deal to be somebody's backup like Quick is doing this year. Maybe even what Craig Anderson has been doing the last few years, before retiring after last season.

He probably wouldn't have been elite anymore by 2020 in a best case scenario. He was actually still playing here in 2020, but let's just say that was his last particularly good year as a starting goalie, which is not at all outlandish to think he probably wouldn't have been particularly good, at least not as a starter the last two years on his deal.

And then having Hall at $10-$11 million per (remember, that's the deal we all speculated it was gonna take to keep him) with still 5 years left would have been brutal. Especially when Hall would have probably been the fifth best forward on the team right now, and even that's counting guys that are here right now, who otherwise wouldn't have been here (Timo) had he stuck around at that price and got that contract we surmised he would.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I'm not a Hall fan by any stretch but he flat out carried. Cory Schneider was a wonderful angles goalie and that's it. Couldn't manage the game, couldn't skate, couldn't handle the puck. Our defense exposed him, our offense couldn't score for him and he crumbled and lost as many games for us as he won. I absolutely loved the move to get him, thought he'd set us up for years, but he couldn't win with us without a healthy Hall doing Hall things.

It all went the way it was supposed to go and here we are.

 

[Camille the Eel]

I like this move, and actually suggested on here even before July 1st that Kinkaid would be a guy I’d target, as I didn’t think we’d get much better for a third string guy that him.

He is 34, so you never really do know, but I think he’s better than Kallgren, who is pretty bad at the NHL level, though significantly younger.

Kinkaid is not someone at this stage that you want playing a lot of NHL games, but he’s done fine as a call up in limited action since washing out of the league on a full time basis.

I guess he was signed by AHL Chicago earlier in the off-season, but they are not an affiliate of any NHL team, so he’s now signed with us?

Kinkaid is also a cool guy and fan friendly. Nice depth move.

 

[Puckclektr]

Stars typically *don't* struggle with that pressure because that's what makes them star players. What you're saying may be true of teenagers who can't make the jump to the professional ranks, who might be the best player in their area at 14 or 15 but can't get to the next level.

If Luke Hughes struggles in a prospect game it's because he's taking it at half-speed.

I agree for the most part that star players typically don't struggle with pressure. But Im quite sure that every signle one of them struggle with it at some point. Some more than others. Some can handle it some can't. Which is one reason why many future stars don't end up being future stars. I think pressure is the main reason why Toronto hasn't won a cup or been succeful int he palyoffs. I was talking to Weinrich a few years ago about Jack hughes and he pretty much said the same thing. He didnt' play the Saturday and there were plenty of upset fans and he said becasue they know what they have in him. I said why bring him then and he said something along the lines of becasue he has to earn it and prove he is the best player against a bunch of players that are playing the most important game of their life.
As for pressure, I don't mean the pressure of being an NHL player. I mean the pressure of being a star player when you are the main target. Luke was a target being a star player in Michigan and he seemd to perform well. I have watched virtually every game at this event aside from the covid years and I believe that this tournament is where more star players tend to not perfom well and the off the radar guys are the ones who tend to stand out. This is a tournament that shows heart and determination over skill argubaly over many than any other tournament that they play in. Even more than the OHL cup. MAny of these players have been scouted since they have been 12-15. But for many this is really their first opportunity to show NHL GMs and the coach what they have. I have known people to play in this tournament and this is their 15 minutes of fame. I personally knew a devils prospect from a few years back who essentially said the same thing. Wearing the crest of an NHL team knowing that this tournament is probably the only time they will ever wear an NHL jersey and this is their ONE shot to prove the are good enough. Not always the case but I've seen it more in these tournaments than anywhere else.

As for Luke struggling becasue he is playing at half speed or not trying 100% then IMO that should be a major issue that he isn't giving 100% in a tournament representing the team. Very rare do players not give 100% at this level. I think if Luke struggles it is because he was shadowed and targeted and struggled under the pressure. Players that are that good want to be the best and want to prove it every chance they get. Many of these players that play in the tournament have been the best or top on their team for pretty much their whole life becasue they want to be. Luke won't half ass it. If he does half ass it and it is noticable, an example should be set and he shouldn't make the team to start the season. No player should get a pass or special treatment.

 

[Dialamo]

I forget..who was that superfan?

It's been awhile....

Speaking of superfans, anyone remember the Andrew Peters superfan here?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Speaking of superfans, anyone remember the Andrew Peters superfan here?

Oh man I do remember that guy

 

[Dialamo]

While Schneider did fall apart and fall apart very fast he did, I'm not sure he would have been of much use for much longer anyway.

His contract was to expire in 2022, when he was 36 years old. Even if he didn't decline quite as fast and weren't bought out, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have still been here last year.

Maybe if he hadn't fallen apart so fast (7 years ago now), he would still be playing in the NHL in 23-24, but it would almost definitely be as like what Halak was the last couple years or a one year deal to be somebody's backup like Quick is doing this year. Maybe even what Craig Anderson has been doing the last few years, before retiring after last season.

Been said a bazillion times, but man we were spoiled with Marty. I don't think there's any ironman workhorse goalies in the NHL anymore. Who were the last goalies besides Marty who got 80% or more of the starts, lasted past the age of 35, and were at least decent? Lundqvist? Fleury? #1 Goalies tend to get less than 60 games started per season now, and they tend to fall apart as soon as they hit 30 years old nowadays. Crazy!

 

[None Shall Pass]

Speaking of superfans, anyone remember the Andrew Peters superfan here?

I never left

 

[njdevils1982]

Speaking of superfans, anyone remember the Andrew Peters superfan here?

@Bleedred?

 

[Triumph]

I agree for the most part that star players typically don't struggle with pressure. But Im quite sure that every signle one of them struggle with it at some point. Some more than others. Some can handle it some can't. Which is one reason why many future stars don't end up being future stars. I think pressure is the main reason why Toronto hasn't won a cup or been succeful int he palyoffs. I was talking to Weinrich a few years ago about Jack hughes and he pretty much said the same thing. He didnt' play the Saturday and there were plenty of upset fans and he said becasue they know what they have in him. I said why bring him then and he said something along the lines of becasue he has to earn it and prove he is the best player against a bunch of players that are playing the most important game of their life.
As for pressure, I don't mean the pressure of being an NHL player. I mean the pressure of being a star player when you are the main target. Luke was a target being a star player in Michigan and he seemd to perform well. I have watched virtually every game at this event aside from the covid years and I believe that this tournament is where more star players tend to not perfom well and the off the radar guys are the ones who tend to stand out. This is a tournament that shows heart and determination over skill argubaly over many than any other tournament that they play in. Even more than the OHL cup. MAny of these players have been scouted since they have been 12-15. But for many this is really their first opportunity to show NHL GMs and the coach what they have. I have known people to play in this tournament and this is their 15 minutes of fame. I personally knew a devils prospect from a few years back who essentially said the same thing. Wearing the crest of an NHL team knowing that this tournament is probably the only time they will ever wear an NHL jersey and this is their ONE shot to prove the are good enough. Not always the case but I've seen it more in these tournaments than anywhere else.

As for Luke struggling becasue he is playing at half speed or not trying 100% then IMO that should be a major issue that he isn't giving 100% in a tournament representing the team. Very rare do players not give 100% at this level. I think if Luke struggles it is because he was shadowed and targeted and struggled under the pressure. Players that are that good want to be the best and want to prove it every chance they get. Many of these players that play in the tournament have been the best or top on their team for pretty much their whole life becasue they want to be. Luke won't half ass it. If he does half ass it and it is noticable, an example should be set and he shouldn't make the team to start the season. No player should get a pass or special treatment.

I see that you really enjoy the tournament and that's great, but for Luke Hughes, this tournament means zilch. You claim above that 'star players don't perform well in this tournament' - the simplest explanation for that is because they don't care as much as the other guys playing. Luke Hughes is going to make the Devils and he doesn't need to skate his ass off in this game to do it; the invitees are going to be going full-tilt to try to get an AHL deal. You say it yourself, these are the guys this tournament is for - the players drafted late or not drafted at all.

There are always going to be different rules for different players, as much as everyone wants to talk about 'proving it'.

 

[crashline]

 

[NjDevsRR]

Kinkaid is also a cool guy and fan friendly. Nice depth move.

Uncle Kinkaid on the other hand….

 

[Puckclektr]

I see that you really enjoy the tournament and that's great, but for Luke Hughes, this tournament means zilch. You claim above that 'star players don't perform well in this tournament' - the simplest explanation for that is because they don't care as much as the other guys playing. Luke Hughes is going to make the Devils and he doesn't need to skate his ass off in this game to do it; the invitees are going to be going full-tilt to try to get an AHL deal. You say it yourself, these are the guys this tournament is for - the players drafted late or not drafted at all.

There are always going to be different rules for different players, as much as everyone wants to talk about 'proving it'.

It probably does mean zilch to him. But as to he isn’t going to go full tilt isn’t the best take. The star players actually try. If he half asses it what does that tell the management? Do you think players actually don’t try against players that are at the same calibre as them. He is the best at this calibre on the team and the tournament but he at his best isn’t just half assing it and being a top player. He isn’t playing mens shinny league. He played in the NCAA against players that rarely make the NHL. Most NCAA teams generally have one player on average that becomes a regular NHL player. More than half end up playing in Europe ECHL or retiring. This tournament normally has anywhere from 5-10 players that end up being regular NHLers and is top level talent palying the tournament of their life. I can tell you he isn’t half assing it.
The devils had 7 players that have become NHL regulars from their 2019 NHL team with Jack Hughes and many players still playing at high level including players still having the opportunity to be regular NHL players.
These are the regular NCAA players that end up in the ECHL or retire after they graduate. These rosters are players that generally have successful hockey careers and are steps ahead of the players in the NCAA that have almost no chance.

 

[Bleedred]

Uncle Kinkaid on the other hand….

I think I took that personally on the day it happened, but not so much anymore.

Especially not after B word who don't talk about anymore's old man liked a social media post of someone picking the Rangers to win game 7 against us, on the day of that game.

 

[My3Sons]

I think I took that personally on the day it happened, but not so much anymore.

Especially not after B word who don't talk about anymore's old man liked a social media post of someone picking the Rangers to win game 7 against us, on the day of that game.

To be fair the microchips in the vaccine were controlling him.

 

[Bleedred]

Anyway. quick note. This forum/website has been back to working again on google chrome desktop for the last two days, and all is right in the world for me.

I just couldn't do the other browsers. Nothing ran right or efficient enough. It was much like how (the now defunct) internet explorer ran when I first got this machine almost 9 years ago, and that's what led me to downloading chrome in the first place.

I think I was actually done with internet explorer long before this computer, but I still have the icon for it on here lol. I remember downloading mozilla in like 2008 because internet explorer was really not working efficient enough for me.

 

[njdevils1982]

Anyway. quick note. This forum/website has been back to working again on google chrome desktop for the last two days, and all is right in the world for me.

I just couldn't do the other browsers. Nothing ran right or efficient enough. It was much like how (the now defunct) internet explorer ran when I first got this machine almost 9 years ago, and that's what led me to downloading chrome in the first place.

I think I was actually done with internet explorer long before this computer, but I still have the icon for it on here lol. I remember downloading mozilla in like 2008 because internet explorer was really not working efficient enough for me.

and to think this shit still works for me....2012 for the win!

 

[mdj12784]

I forget..who was that superfan?

It's been awhile....

His name is Brandon. He was part of a well documented troubled couple. She smartly moved on, but he’s still out there. Somewhere. Lol