Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

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Captain3rdLine

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If one’s max speed has increased then there is a strong correlation their acceleration has improved as well, unless they changed the skate cut (highly doubt this).
You cannot conclude that whatsoever. All the top one took was him hitting a slightly faster speed once. I bet if you lined him and asked him to skate as fast as he could down the ice he could beat that speed first try. Players are rarely skating their fastest.

And skating is a lot more than your top speed or acceleration.

Maybe him slowing down means he can’t turn or transition as quick among other possibilities.
 

Devs3cups

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But like so is Marino. So if you’re bringing in Pesce but moving out Marino you’re looking at a wash defensively while being worse contract wise and older.
All comes down to the term for me tbh. I think Pesce is an upgrade, so if the contract is slightly higher money wise, I’d be fine with it. I think it’d be a fine move/switch it that’s what it ends up being, certainly not one that creates 10+ pages of debating lol! But again, all depends on the term.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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You cannot conclude that whatsoever. All the top one took was him hitting a slightly faster speed once. I bet if you lined him and asked him to skate as fast as he could down the ice he could beat that speed first try. Players are rarely skating their fastest.

And skating is a lot more than your top speed or acceleration.

Maybe him slowing down means he can’t turn or transition as quick among other possibilities.
lol I’m done with this argument. Enjoy never coming to conclusions.
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

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I think this may be the reasoning:


Particularly if they want him paired with Luke. It’s hard to say given we have no idea what else is coming.

Was Marino equally as bad of that in 22-23? I assume not since he was elite that year overall but if it's just a 1 year rash decision then yikes. It does seem like they're trying to find Luke's partner by picking up Pesce
 

Billdo

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Pesce isn't THAT much of an upgrade when you factor in contract compared to Marino. Now if we're trading Marino for a left handed version of himself, maybe.
 

Captain3rdLine

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Try this then

Also, rarely is all they need to capture top speed. I would guess all skaters skate their fastest at least once in a season.
Come on man that’s no better if not worse.

Again there’s so many different aspects apart from max speed in hockey. This isn’t speed skating.

And no they rarely skate their hardest, they never reach their true top speed. Again, if you put him on a sheet off ice and told him to skate as fast as he could he would most likely beat that speed easily.
He’s one doing and concentrating on other things while he’s playing hockey, and two he’s playing shift after shift after shift.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Come on man that’s no better if not worse.

Again there’s so many different aspects apart from max speed in hockey. This isn’t speed skating.

And no they rarely skate their hardest, they never reach their true top speed. Again, if you put him on a sheet off ice and told him to skate as fast as he could he would most likely beat that speed easily.
He’s one doing and concentrating on other things while he’s playing hockey, and two he’s playing shift after shift after shift.
Do you not understand that you keep using rarely and rarely is all it takes to hit top speed once , you know when a Dmen gets caught and they skate their guts out on the backcheck? Either way, you don’t want to learn and that is Ok, carry on.
 

Guttersniped

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Pesce is from NJ, right?

Maybe we'll get a home town discount for once 🤣

Well, he’s from the area.

Born in Terrytown NY

Also:

Question: “Who’s the guy you pattern your game after?”

Pesce: “He’s still relatively young, but I grew up a Rangers fan, and I liked watching Ryan McDonagh play.”
link

His favorite team as a kid and favorite team to play against now is the New York Rangers, and his favorite player growing up was Ryan McDonagh
<cut>
He spends the summers in New York, and his favorite vacation spots are Florida and Avalon, NJ
link
 

Captain3rdLine

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Do you not understand that you keep using rarely and rarely is all it takes to hit top speed once , you know when a Dmen gets caught and they skate their guts out on the backcheck? Either way, you don’t want to learn and that is Ok, carry on.
And guess what, if they’re skating their hardest on the backcheck chances are they’ve already been expending energy on that shift and in that game. They aren’t gonna reach their top speed in that situation. I promise he can beat that speed first try if we rented some ice out for him and asked him to.

And at the end of the day, regardless of whether that is truly representative of his top speed, max speed is a terrible way of evaluating his overall skating or if he’s lost a step.

Maybe he’s lost a little mobility and isn’t turning as well, maybe his acceleration isn’t as good, maybe he’s lost a little quickness in tight spaces, maybe he’s not covering as much ice laterally, maybe his backwards skating has slowed down a bit and he’s getting burnt a little more.

All of those things could be true and he could still be getting to similar or maybe even slightly better max speeds once he gets going fully. All different aspects of skating require different mechanics and can vary differently.

There’s a reason when they do on ice testing at combine’s they don’t just have them skate down the ice once to see their max speed and then send them off.

Its not me not wanting to learn, you’ve yet to make a slightly valuable point and its you drawing a stupid and unreasonable conclusion off of the smallest piece of data.
 
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SteveCangialosi123

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Was Marino equally as bad of that in 22-23? I assume not since he was elite that year overall but if it's just a 1 year rash decision then yikes. It does seem like they're trying to find Luke's partner by picking up Pesce
No real reason to assume this is some awful decision with faulty reasoning. I trust the analytics team and Fitz in general. They certainly have some in house stuff they’re relying on. There are likely non goalie reasons that we underperformed xG models.

This is the absolutely crippling blunder of a deal that should shake your faith in the regime:

1719266924995.png

1719266986444.gif
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

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No real reason to assume this is some awful decision with faulty reasoning. I trust the analytics team and Fitz in general. They certainly have some in house stuff they’re relying on. There are likely non goalie reasons that we underperformed xG models.

This is the absolutely crippling blunder of a deal that should shake your faith in the regime:

View attachment 886377
View attachment 886379

the Palat hate from some people is super weird tbh

its not like the guy is putting up 10 points/year. And its not like he helped set up our biggest goal in a decade.

Using steals in Jack/Bratt/Nico on guys like Palat is something you guys like then go ahead, I personally don't like it and think we could build a better team without him. I don't want to pay for a 3rd liner and "teaching guys to win", how about them just being a good hockey player? Palat's fine but he's not a 6M in any world. And lmao really? That's our bar with 6M guy? That's the exact shit a Rangers fan would make fun of us for saying and you said it.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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Using steals in Jack/Bratt/Nico on guys like Palat is something you guys like then go ahead, I personally don't like it and think we could build a better team without him. I don't want to pay for a 3rd liner and "teaching guys to win", how about them just being a good hockey player? Palat's fine but he's not a 6M in any world. And lmao really? That's our bar with 6M guy? That's the exact shit a Rangers fan would make fun of us for saying and you said it.
What did I say that is factually incorrect?

What do you think Palat should be making? What moves has Palat's contract prevented us from making?
 

McDuffz88

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I'm not sure Pesce is the answer but I'm also just some idiot behind a keyboard. I have no doubt he will be awesome for a few years but on a long term contract it worries me. At the same time we do have to go all in. We aren't in the rebuild stage anymore. In all actuality our dear captain Nico only has a few years left before he becomes a UFA. If we do sign him it's obvious that Marino gets traded for a winger. It still also leaves us with a hole on LD. This is going to be an interesting summer for Fitz because there's still big moves to be made. We either need a 2nd line winger to push Haula to the 3rd line for him to be the 3rd line center or we need to go acquire one. We need someone to replace what we lost with Mcleod.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame

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What did I say that is factually incorrect?

What do you think Palat should be making? What moves has Palat's contract prevented us from making?

Palat was a clear overpay after Fitz missed on Gaudreau, it's painfully obvious. Part of it is Fitz getting strung on by Gaudreau that day in UFA, I wanted Burkakovsky that day but he got signed by Seattle early so he was basically forced to wait for Gaudreau to make his decision and the forwards who didn't sign after Gaudreau that day cashed in even more due to more desperate teams especially us. Do I fault Palat for his deal? Absolutely not, he deserves to get paid for the years in Tampa Bay but you don't pay for guys for their past performances or "intangibles", that's how you end up in trouble in the cap era. If he can get to year 4 before he dips immensely then sure, it was a ok to good deal but if you're saying that about a deal then it's already bad. And who knows? None of us can answer that, we don't know what their plans are until we see them or leaks come out about what they were trying to. What if they wanted Zadorov and Pesce this year as an example and can only have 1? His 6M clearly comes into play there. And no, you're not wrong in theory but why does 1 goal make his contract worth it?
 

Oneiro

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Palat is a very likable player and we needed that kind of player. A younger version of him would fit like a glove but it's just the principle of not paying for past performance on a guy who plays a hard game. A season like last year's was predictable, let alone his groin injury or whatever it was. We better hope the cap accelerates from here.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

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Palat was a clear overpay after Fitz missed on Gaudreau, it's painfully obvious. Part of it is Fitz getting strung on by Gaudreau that day in UFA, I wanted Burkakovsky that day but he got signed by Seattle early so he was basically forced to wait for Gaudreau to make his decision and the forwards who didn't sign after Gaudreau that day cashed in even more due to more desperate teams especially us. Do I fault Palat for his deal? Absolutely not, he deserves to get paid for the years in Tampa Bay but you don't pay for guys for their past performances or "intangibles", that's how you end up in trouble in the cap era. If he can get to year 4 before he dips immensely then sure, it was a ok to good deal but if you're saying that about a deal then it's already bad. And who knows? None of us can answer that, we don't know what their plans are until we see them or leaks come out about what they were trying to. What if they wanted Zadorov and Pesce this year as an example and can only have 1? His 6M clearly comes into play there. And no, you're not wrong in theory but why does 1 goal make his contract worth it?

My point is that Palat's contract is not preventing us from doing literally anything. Say he was making $4 million instead of $6. What huge move are we then making? Say he wasn't on the team at all, thats just another hole we'd have to fill (and with a player that wouldn't play for free, so the cap wouldn't fully offset)

I don't even like Palat that much, I just don't really care about the cap. Teams that want to make moves will make moves. If they really want to sign Zadorov and Pesce, they'll do that and dump Siegs or Marino or both.
 
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