Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[Triumph]

Sharangovich is looking better and better, Maltsev I'm still very skeptical of - of the 4 goals he's scored, 2 were ridiculously low-percentage and the other was an empty-netter. I think Maltsev can play on a 4th line, but I'm not sure I'm seeing the offense to play above that long-term. The good news (for the Devils) in this regard is that he seems to be persona non grata in the KHL, so he might be open to staying in that role - many Russian players aren't.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Interesting stat, bullshit conclusion. It's called: lost the ability to pass, skate, and generate any sort of quality shot. Our sloppiness at the blue lines is more a factor than suddenly being unable to finish.

We've never been able to finish, really... Or at least the guys who historically CAN finish, like palms, haven't. If anything, Zacha has suddenly found his shot.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Sharangovich appears to be climbing the wall he hit after a great first couple of games. He is gaining confidence handling the puck and making plays. I believe the goals will start coming more as a result.

He received one hard pass at the bluline that I have seen bounce off Johnsson's stick all year. His skating, reach, stick work and compete level have been some of the best on the team. Really hopeful. Fits well with Kuokkanen's game too.

 

[Beetlebum]

Interesting stat, bullshit conclusion. It's called: lost the ability to pass, skate, and generate any sort of quality shot. Our sloppiness at the blue lines is more a factor than suddenly being unable to finish.

We've never been able to finish, really... Or at least the guys who historically CAN finish, like palms, haven't. If anything, Zacha has suddenly found his shot.

Fatigue can cause a lot of knock on effects.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I just don't get it. I think Gardiner is a solid veteran presence on the blueline, and over 20 assists each of the last 7 years. When's the last time the Devils had that type of consistency from a defenseman. Gardiner's cap hit simply replaces Murray's next season. This was a no-brainer and Carolina, just like all cap strapped teams it seems, gets bailed out again.

Idk if I'd ever call Gardiner solid...
He's more Severson of two years ago. (or last two games) in my eyes. All the tools, lots of potential, occasional game losing heartrending mindfarts.

 

[billingtons ghost]

glenwo2, I don't know what that means, sorry, would you explain? Thanks

Here's a description link
First World problem

 

[devlzfan]

Interesting stat, bullshit conclusion. It's called: lost the ability to pass, skate, and generate any sort of quality shot. Our sloppiness at the blue lines is more a factor than suddenly being unable to finish.

We've never been able to finish, really... Or at least the guys who historically CAN finish, like palms, haven't. If anything, Zacha has suddenly found his shot.

Yes, I can't tell you how many times I've seen the Devils miss location on passes where if the passes were in the right spot, it would have led to better scoring opportunities.

 

[Forge]

If Kulikov keeps up even close to his current play, I wouldn't mind resigning him. I'd imagine he is likely going to get a 3 year deal.

He has been great for us.

I have no problems with bringing him back on like a one year deal, but I can't get on board with a 3 year deal. This sample is far too limited compared to his previous years, and this is why you sign guys like him to these cheap one year deals. You hope they outplay it, you get tremendous value for the contract and then you move on. There's a reason he had no market this off season. This feels like a situation where you get stuck with John Moore on your books for 3-4 years and regret it 2 months later. My expectation for Kulikov would be third pairing type guy moving forward based on prior precedent, and I'm not giving those types multi year deals. I think you can always find okay third pairing types on the market for a short term deal, and I like to have some flexibility on third pairings for prospects.

Though I suppose like anything, it all comes down to actual money. I mean, if it's the Carrick deal for 3 years rather than 2, that's whatever.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I think Maltsev is a better option as the 4C going forward with a healthy lineup over McLeod.

 

[Scorcho]

luke hughes cmonnn dowwwnnn

 

[NJDevs86]

I think Maltsev is a better option as the 4C going forward with a healthy lineup over McLeod.

100% agree. Love the energy the 4th line has brought this year but McLeod is an absolute black hole offensively. Does not look like the skill set is there to be effective on the offensive end and the 4th line has to chip in.

 

[RyGuy]

I think Maltsev is a better option as the 4C going forward with a healthy lineup over McLeod.

I like his game so far. Im concerned about Faceoffs going forward though. This team has sucked in the dot for many years, and 0nce Zajac leaves its going to get worse. Mikey is a pretty good FO/PK/forecheck guy with speed.

 

[MichaelJ]

100% agree. Love the energy the 4th line has brought this year but McLeod is an absolute black hole offensively. Does not look like the skill set is there to be effective on the offensive end and the 4th line has to chip in.

Chip in? McLeod is playing at a 10 goal/82 game pace. I’d happily take 10 goals from our 4C as his offensive contribution as long as the rest of his game is up to what the Devils need from 4C.

 

[hidek91]

My reply to @guitarguyvic , since the GDT was closed when I was typing.

Missing the point. We are 8 years into major suck era, six years removed from the previous regime that everyone still blames for where we are. And what have we got to show for it so far? Only more “wait and see”...at some point you have to prove to me with actual results that there are legit first liners in this organization. Until that happens I’m not getting optimistic or excited because that requires giving the benefit of the doubt to an organization that has thus far failed for an extended period of time.

I mean are you trying to tell it’s not reasonable to expect that an Elias or Parise should have emerged by now, after more than a half a decade of high drafting and two #1’s???

Well, noone forces you to be optimistic as drafting high doesn't guarantee turning into a successful team but when Lou was leaving in 2015, there were zero young pieces that you could build a team around. Team was left in a very bad state and the core players were between 35 and 40. And since between drafting a player and him entering his prime usually at least 6-7 years have to pass, the cause and effect is simple to notice. If you had Jesus of NHL become a GM (let's assume the best GM ever) tomorrow of Arizona, Devils, Sabres or Detroit (basement teams), it would still take at least few years before such a team would become a perennial playoff team.

If you don't believe that Lou's drafting and trading away first round picks have impacted where we are now, ask yourself when did top 5 teams in the East Division drafted their cores?

BOS - Bergeron, Krejci and Pastrnak (our fantastic GM forgot to forfeit 2012 pick so he drafted 30th in that draft) drafted during Lou's era, Rask acquired during Lou's era;
PIT - Malkin, Crosby, Letang during the Lou era,
PHI - Voracek traded for during the Lou era (using Jeff Carter drafted in 2003), Giroux drafted during Lou's era, Couturier drafted during that era, lots of pieces that are results of trading away pieces, which were drafted when Lou was our GM,
NYI - Lee drafted in 2009, Eberle acquired for Strome, Nelson drafted in 2010, Pulock, Pelech, Mayfield all drafted during that era, Barzal was actually drafted in 2015 so Lou wasn't our GM anymore,
WSH - Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Carlson, Orlov, Vrana (two picks after where we would have picked if Lou didn't forfeit Matteau pick), Tom Wilson all drafted during that era.

See where I'm heading? All teams that beat us this season whenever they have 2 hours of free time built their cores either directly or indirectly (via trades) from pieces they drafted in 2003-2014. Few weeks ago ZBC posted a summary of our drafts during 2006-2014 and the most impactful players were Henrique, Severson, Larsson and Wood. And you seriously expected Shero/Fitzgerald to turn that piece of garbage into a legitimate contender?

It's so depressing that posts like this one have to be written every few weeks because people fail to see the connection between drafting in a year X and the success (or lack thereof) in a year X+10.

 

[guitarguyvic]

My reply to @guitarguyvic , since the GDT was closed when I was typing.



Well, noone forces you to be optimistic as drafting high doesn't guarantee turning into a successful team but when Lou was leaving in 2015, there were zero young pieces that you could build a team around. Team was left in a very bad state and the core players were between 35 and 40. And since between drafting a player and him entering his prime usually at least 6-7 years have to pass, the cause and effect is simple to notice. If you had Jesus of NHL become a GM (let's assume the best GM ever) tomorrow of Arizona, Devils, Sabres or Detroit (basement teams), it would still take at least few years before such a team would become a perennial playoff team.

If you don't believe that Lou's drafting and trading away first round picks have impacted where we are now, ask yourself when did top 5 teams in the East Division drafted their cores?

BOS - Bergeron, Krejci and Pastrnak (our fantastic GM forgot to forfeit 2012 pick so he drafted 30th in that draft) drafted during Lou's era, Rask acquired during Lou's era;
PIT - Malkin, Crosby, Letang during the Lou era,
PHI - Voracek traded for during the Lou era (using Jeff Carter drafted in 2003), Giroux drafted during Lou's era, Couturier drafted during that era, lots of pieces that are results of trading away pieces, which were drafted when Lou was our GM,
NYI - Lee drafted in 2009, Eberle acquired for Strome, Nelson drafted in 2010, Pulock, Pelech, Mayfield all drafted during that era, Barzal was actually drafted in 2015 so Lou wasn't our GM anymore,
WSH - Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Carlson, Orlov, Vrana (two picks after where we would have picked if Lou didn't forfeit Matteau pick), Tom Wilson all drafted during that era.

See where I'm heading? All teams that beat us this season whenever they have 2 hours of free time built their cores either directly or indirectly (via trades) from pieces they drafted in 2003-2014. Few weeks ago ZBC posted a summary of our drafts during 2006-2014 and the most impactful players were Henrique, Severson, Larsson and Wood. And you seriously expected Shero/Fitzgerald to turn that piece of garbage into a legitimate contender?

It's so depressing that posts like this one have to be written every few weeks because people fail to see the connection between drafting in a year X and the success (or lack thereof) in a year X+10.

Who is saying we should be a legit contender already??? We have been a bottom 5 team for multiple consecutive years with zero on-ice improvement in that time span. Being better than the worst in the league is not a reasonable expectation six years removed from the previous regime???

It did not take 6-8 years for those teams you cited to improve with those players. It may have taken that that long or linger to become legit contenders but that’s not what anyone is demanding, certainly not me.

The point is that there’s this constant drumbeat that the benefit of the doubt should be given to this organization and any skepticism about what we have or where we are headed is completely unwarranted. Whereas I think that’s complete delusional baloney...skepticism is absolutely warranted because year and year after year now no actual on ice improvement is materializing.

In short, this franchise’s leadership and the players have up to this point failed to provide actual results or live up to the hype.

I mean, 2-3 years ago in the middle of the Shero era this board was certain that by now we would be contending for the playoffs. How’d that turn out?

I’ll display optimism when the scoreboard starts giving me a reason to.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Who is saying we should be a legit contender already??? We have been a bottom 5 team for multiple consecutive years with zero on-ice improvement in that time span. Being better than the worst in the league is not a reasonable expectation six years removed from the previous regime???

It did not take 6-8 years for those teams you cited to improve with those players. It may have taken that that long or linger to become legit contenders but that’s not what anyone is demanding, certainly not me.

The point is that there’s this constant drumbeat that the benefit of the doubt should be given to this organization and any skepticism about what we have or where we are headed is completely unwarranted. Whereas I think that’s complete delusional baloney...skepticism is absolutely warranted because year and year after year now no actual on ice improvement is materializing.

being skeptical =/= "we suck and are going to suck forever" which is basically what you've been saying, That adds nothing to the discussion whatsoever.

 

[guitarguyvic]

being skeptical =/= "we suck and are going to suck forever" which is basically what you've been saying, That adds nothing to the discussion whatsoever.

No it’s not what I’ve been saying. It’s what you pretend I’m saying so you can summarily dismiss it without consideration.

 

[NJDevs86]

Chip in? McLeod is playing at a 10 goal/82 game pace. I’d happily take 10 goals from our 4C as his offensive contribution as long as the rest of his game is up to what the Devils need from 4C.

23 games with 3 goals and 2 assists. 2 of those goals came in one game vs Buffalo. 2 of his goals this year were him throwing it on net and it leaking through the goalie after they got a piece of it.

56 career games with 3 goals and 7 assists. The eye test with him offensively is not picturesque. Not sure I’ve seen him show the ability to lift the puck on a shot. He didn’t score in Bingo, looks like another Kevin Rooney type player who might bring even less offense.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We might get an update in a couple of days lol

 

[NJDevs86]

We might get an update in a couple of days lol

Finally disclosing the whereabouts of the funeral?

 

[guitarguyvic]

I don’t know how one can have an honest discussion with people who insist you’re saying something you’re actually not.

 

[hidek91]

Who is saying we should be a legit contender already??? We have been a bottom 5 team for multiple consecutive years with zero on-ice improvement in that time span. Being better than the worst in the league is not a reasonable expectation six years removed from the previous regime???

It did not take 6-8 years for those teams you cited to improve with those players. It may have taken that that long or linger to become legit contenders but that’s not what anyone is demanding, certainly not me.

The point is that there’s this constant drumbeat that the benefit of the doubt should be given to this organization and any skepticism about what we have or where we are headed is completely unwarranted. Whereas I think that’s complete delusional baloney...skepticism is absolutely warranted because year and year after year now no actual on ice improvement is materializing.

In short, this franchise’s leadership and the players have up to this point failed to provide actual results or live up to the hype.

I mean, 2-3 years ago in the middle of the Shero era this board was certain that by now we would be contending for the playoffs. How’d that turn out?

I’ll display optimism when the scoreboard starts giving me a reason to.

You have every right to be skeptical but:

1) Blaming the current regime and not Lou ignores the real reasons why we are in the basement, in the first place;
2) It's better to miss the playoffs with youngsters in the lineup than with Jagr/Elias/Cammalleri/Zidlicky/Havlat/Ruutu etc.
3) The success of the rebuild is dependant on a very young pieces that are still developing, you can't expect "on ice results" instantly, especially when 3 of our first round prospects, have been drafted half a year ago;
4) Actually, I'm also willing to hold Shero accountable for:
a) trading away lots of 2nd round draft picks,
b) whiffing on McLeod pick and partially whiffing on Zacha (hot streak this season doesn't make him a good choice there).
5) Fitzgerald so far has made logical choices (incl. trades, FAs and draft picks), I didn't like Lindy Ruff's signing but I assume that coaches with the better reputation (Gallant, Laviolette, Boudreau) were aware that NJD roster is so bad that it could kill their career.

 

[Mgd31]

We might get an update in a couple of days lol

An update on the update. Love it.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I don’t know how one can have an honest discussion with people who insist you’re saying something you’re actually not.

And you’re actually surprised by this? It’s been going on since for years lol.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

You have every right to be skeptical but:

1) Blaming the current regime and not Lou ignores the real reasons why we are in the basement, in the first place;
2) It's better to miss the playoffs with youngsters in the lineup than with Jagr/Elias/Cammalleri/Zidlicky/Havlat/Ruutu etc.
3) The success of the rebuild is dependant on a very young pieces that are still developing, you can't expect "on ice results" instantly, especially when 3 of our first round prospects, have been drafted half a year ago;
4) Actually, I'm also willing to hold Shero accountable for:
a) trading away lots of 2nd round draft picks,
b) whiffing on McLeod pick and partially whiffing on Zacha (hot streak this season doesn't make him a good choice there).
5) Fitzgerald so far has made logical choices (incl. trades, FAs and draft picks), I didn't like Lindy Ruff's signing but I assume that coaches with the better reputation (Gallant, Laviolette, Boudreau) were aware that NJD roster is so bad that it could kill their career.

You have to blame Lou for where we are today but with that said, it’s just mind boggling that we’re still a bottom 5 team with the number of picks we’ve had in the past 7 years. At what point do we start improving and by improving, I’m not even suggesting making the playoffs but going from 27th, to 24th, to 20th, to eventually getting close enough to sniff the postseason.

We’ve been shopping at the bargain bin store because we had a boat load of cap space and we got what we paid for. True, we got a great deal for Palmieri but thinking that we’d hit a home run on every presence to the plate was flat out wrong.

This team is taking the same path Buffalo is currently on and that’s alarming. At some point, we have to add legit talent to the young core we currently have and if it means sacrificing a 1st round pick with a young player, so be it. We need to bring in veterans that will groom our kids, proven veterans that will establish a winning mentality and change this gong show we’re currently in. Zajac has been a true soldier for us but he doesn’t look like leadership material. Palmieri says all the right things between periods but his play is the complete opposite of what he preaches. Subban looks like a leader but his play on the ice has regressed so much that his voice doesn’t hold any weight when he’s trying to pump up the boys.

We need a better veteran presence, toughness and a balance lineup. We’re nowhere close to any of that atm and that’s scary.