Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[Darkauron]

lol have you read this board this year? Tons of people think the way you do and never have anything positive to say....

Yep pretty much.

 

[guitarguyvic]

lol have you read this board this year? Tons of people think the way you do and never have anything positive to say....

And we are outnumbered still pretty heavily. Most agree with you. What’s your point?

It seems you’re offended that not everyone agrees with the consensus. Given how you typically respond I’m not surprised.

 

[NJDevs26]

1) I already agreed that you've right to be skeptical. Regarding Lou, I've written a few posts already how his asset management affects our current team. Not blaming Lou for the state of NJD is like not blaming Chiarelli for the state of EDM or not blaming Chayka for the state of ARI. Just because they left, doesn't mean that the effects of their management have magically disappeared.

2) I agree with that but in 2013-2015 we had no youth, now we have. I'm not saying that they should have played youth then, I'm saying that I'd rather see young players playing over core nearing 40 y. o. if the end result is similar (i. e. lack of playoffs).

3) The problem with this "sucking for 8 years" is that it misses context. Sucking in 2013 and 2014 does not matter at all because we didn't even pick a players early in the draft because of that. Later on, we've made two very mediocre picks in Zacha and McLeod, and all following first round picks are either doing well or it's too early to judge the impact. During that whole era a lot of 2nd round picks were also traded away.

4) I think that we all agree that results this season are very bad but judging organization based on the results, while ignoring the roster, prospects, recent draft picks and the value that team possesses is way too superficial.

5) Again, I agree that you have every right to be skeptical, I personally am quite satisfied with his first year as his philosophy (trust the process, rather then try to combine rebuild and competing) seems to be the most reasonable. We can already see that the effects of Shero's philosophy (half competing/half rebuild) will partially still be here (rebuild pieces e. g. Smith, Hischier, Hughes, Bratt), while his "win now" pieces (e. g. Grabner, Hall, Subban, Vatanen, Palmieri) are either gone or will be gone very shortly.

1 is a terrible analogy. How long has it been since Chia and Chyaka left their teams and how long has it been since Lou left here? Blaming Lou for the state of the organization in 2016 is a little different than still doing it in 2021 and beyond.

I also get tired of the ‘but at least they have YOUNG PLAYERS’ now meme, it would have been utterly hideous if they didn’t have some young players after six years of mostly rebuilding with two lotto wins but we really don’t know if most of them can be more than just fringe players so being aesthetically better isn’t necessarily going to translate into actually being better.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

And we are outnumbered still pretty heavily. Most agree with you. What’s your point?

It seems you’re offended that not everyone agrees with the consensus. Given how you typically respond I’m not surprised.

not at all, I can debate fairly and do so on here with plenty of people.

but again, you literally never have anything positive to say. Why would I want to respond kindly to that?

 

[Woncka]

I sure hope the veterans actually step it up soon because that loss will be demoralizing for a young team

This is where not having good veterans can affect the future of the team

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Or Dell, I don't know how long that shutout buys Wedgewood when he gives up a ton of goals every other game he doesn't get a shutout in. I'd probably still put him in over Dell for tomorrow but it's like I said a few days ago, just shuttle these guys in and out every two or three games until someone gets hot.

This post didn't age real well.

 

[Bologna 1]

Should Bratt be expendable? I teeter on this one bc hes young and clearly talented. But that being said, with all the flash he shows, does it really amount to as much tangible results as it should? Could he fetch a young dman or be part of package for better/different forward?

 

[EnglishDevil]

Should Bratt be expendable? I teeter on this one bc hes young and clearly talented. But that being said, with all the flash he shows, does it really amount to as much tangible results as it should? Could he fetch a young dman or be part of package for better/different forward?

I'd keep him purely because I don't think he'd return enough to make moving him worthwhile, he seems like one of those players whose value is probably greater to us than it is to the rest of the league. That said if a prime aged legitimate top linger winger or defender were available, there's very players on this roster I wouldn't be willing to include as a makeweight.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I'd keep him purely because I don't think he'd return enough to make moving him worthwhile, he seems like one of those players whose value is probably greater to us than it is to the rest of the league. That said if a prime aged legitimate top linger winger or defender were available, there's very players on this roster I wouldn't be willing to include as a makeweight.

I don’t have a single player on my untouchable list. If we can get a player to improve our team, even if it’s Hughes or Hischier, so be it.

 

[glenwo2]

What a baloney-and-cheese-sandwich of a call that was.



(hold the mustard. )

 

[glenwo2]

I'd keep him purely because I don't think he'd return enough to make moving him worthwhile, he seems like one of those players whose value is probably greater to us than it is to the rest of the league. That said if a prime aged legitimate top linger winger or defender were available, there's very players on this roster I wouldn't be willing to include as a makeweight.

But even then, he'd have to be packaged with one other player plus a prospect if we're looking to make a deal for an actual Top D-man, though.

 

[RSeen]

Should Bratt be expendable? I teeter on this one bc hes young and clearly talented. But that being said, with all the flash he shows, does it really amount to as much tangible results as it should? Could he fetch a young dman or be part of package for better/different forward?

I think he will more than likely be a complementary piece in the top six, which is still valuable, rather than the driver on his line. I think he and Hughes need a better linemate than Johnsson.

 

[glenwo2]

I think he will more than likely be a complementary piece in the top six, which is still valuable, rather than the driver on his line. I think he and Hughes need a better linemate than Johnsson.

I think every NHL player in this entire LEAGUE needs(and deserves) a better linemate than Johnsson.

 

[My3Sons]

I think he will more than likely be a complementary piece in the top six, which is still valuable, rather than the driver on his line. I think he and Hughes need a better linemate than Johnsson.

If Nico can ever get out of witness protection I still think you don’t know what any of Bratt Nico or Zacha are truly capable of until they get some extended run together

 

[glenwo2]

If Nico can ever get out of witness protection I still think you don’t know what any of Bratt Nico or Zacha are truly capable of until they get some extended run together

Nico getting hurt was the worst possible thing to happen to that line.

It was starting to gel and get going.

Hope we have some good news on Nico in the coming days.

 

[Devs4L]

We're entering season 7 pretty soon of a rebuild. We've been a bad team for even longer. Heading toward being a bottom feeding team again. A bunch of young players growing in a losing environment growing accustomed to losing, which Severson admitted to being the case here for years just the other day. Which is frightening.

I remember trading for a young Kyle Palmieri with the thinking being that he would grow perfectly in this teams window and become a core piece. Years later it's now a debate whether it even makes sense to re-sign Palmieri with where this team is at and where his game may be at in the next couple of years.

If you're a fan that's not OK with any of this. If you're a fan who believes maybe more could have possibly been done over the last 6 years for this team to at least be somewhat consistently competitive by now - at least sniffing the playoffs for two or three years in a row, or something. If you're a fan that with each passing season prefers more and more to hold the current regime (Shero included, ownership as well) entering season 7, at least more accountable than the one from years ago...

You're sane. You're normal. You know there are positives here. You know we HAVE moved forward in terms of young pieces we should be excited about - and you are excited about that - but you had higher expectations for the on-ice results of a rebuild nearing the end of 6 seasons. And you're right. You thought that this could finally at least be a season that we were close. That we made it interesting right until the end, even if we fell short.

The truth is this team takes a step forward to being a competitive team when they've established their young core and begin using assets - maybe some of the nearly 60 draft picks they'll have made by July over the last 6 years - to bring in established talent to surround and compliment that young core. And when you see moves being made and messages being clearly sent that indicate from the top down that this result - and the atmosphere Severson spoke about - is no longer OK. And we all just continue to wait for that, I guess.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I’m no longer certain Bratt’s a cut above Zacha and Wood among the 2nd contract RFA guys on the team. All three are probably still on the team for their 3rd contracts but I don’t expect them to be true impact players, just hopefully useful role players. I’d be fine trading any of them in a hockey trade depending on the return.

Johnsson needs to get away from Hughes, and possibly off the team. They might want to waive him honestly.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I am waiving Goose before Johnsson and I think Johnsson sucks.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Bratt is a very good player who is also quite young.

Wanting to trade him is exactly the thought process the same people are complaining got the team into this hole in the first place.

It's a loser mindset.

We also need players to build around. Good young players. Not over the hill plugs.

 

[Bleedred]

I am waiving Goose before Johnsson and I think Johnsson sucks.

I think Johnsson is still more salvageable than Gusev at this point.

Gusev will almost definitely be in the KHL or some other overseas league by the 2022-2023 season. Possibly even after this season. Can’t wait to see what we get at the deadline. Have to suffer through him doing nothing for the next month and being on PP1 while not scoring on it, only for him to bring back a 4th or 5th rounder for our troubles. We might be able to still get that by just scratching him for the better part of the rest of the way till the deadline. His value is getting lower the more we play him and he produces shit and helps keep our power play doing nothing.

I’m about near the end with Johnsson too, but at least Johnsson has two good NHL seasons, whereas Gusev only has one.

 

[Bleedred]

We're entering season 7 pretty soon of a rebuild. We've been a bad team for even longer. Heading toward being a bottom feeding team again. A bunch of young players growing in a losing environment growing accustomed to losing, which Severson admitted to being the case here for years just the other day. Which is frightening.

I remember trading for a young Kyle Palmieri with the thinking being that he would grow perfectly in this teams window and become a core piece. Years later it's now a debate whether it even makes sense to re-sign Palmieri with where this team is at and where his game may be at in the next couple of years.

this here is the most disappointing aspect about the Shero era. That we acquired younger players between ages 24-26 that were actually good players, yet they’re all becoming/became long in the tooth before we were even icing competitive teams.

Shero got Palmieri (24), Hall (24), Johansson (26), Vatanen (26) and all of these guys either became washed up and useless or we just had to get rid of them (Hall more than anybody) because we were not nearly a competitive team when it came time for them to commit and their contracts were ending.

Just for the disclaimer, I don’t regret Hall not committing to us. I’m just saying that I think the hope from Shero was that this team would be competitive before these players either got to old to be useful anymore (Vatanen, Johansson and probably Palmieri from the looks of it) or before their big UFA contracts were coming up and we had to make a decision. Hall and Palmieri maybe still being in this category.

Actually, Palmieri should be in that category, but he’s now bordering on the washed up and not worth any kind of long term contract anyway category.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

remember Bratt had the GW assist tonight but since his skate was maybe (still not sure) .5 inches offside, it didnt count

like I said, I think most people would sing a different tune with Bratt and Hughes if they had actual finishers on their lines.

 

[EnglishDevil]

I think he will more than likely be a complementary piece in the top six, which is still valuable, rather than the driver on his line. I think he and Hughes need a better linemate than Johnsson.

Agreed although I don't really think Bratt pairs well with Hughes stylistically, it's too much of the same with them on a line together. If we ever get healthy I'd like to see Bratt as the playmaker on a line with some complementary size & scoring, Zacha - Hischier - Bratt was looking pretty solid until Nico bit the dust.

Likewise I wouldn't mind rolling Hughes with the hot hands of Sharangovich & Kuokkanen, they've both looked lively recently.

But even then, he'd have to be packaged with one other player plus a prospect if we're looking to make a deal for an actual Top D-man, though.

For sure, since we're not really in a position to be trading 1st round picks it limits our ability to 'trade up' a player like Bratt for someone better. But if a team like Nashville blows it up and dangles a proven scorer like Forsberg, I'd 100% consider packaging Bratt + Picks/Prospects to swing a deal like that.

I personally don't think we'll be making a move like that for a while yet anyway, we're still too much of a dumpster fire overall for it be sensible, but outside of Hughes there's not a single player on this roster I wouldn't at least entertain the idea of trading if the deal made sense.

 

[glenwo2]

Agreed although I don't really think Bratt pairs well with Hughes stylistically, it's too much of the same with them on a line together. If we ever get healthy I'd like to see Bratt as the playmaker on a line with some complementary size & scoring, Zacha - Hischier - Bratt was looking pretty solid until Nico bit the dust.

Likewise I wouldn't mind rolling Hughes with the hot hands of Sharangovich & Kuokkanen, they've both looked lively recently.

If there are bright spots on this team, those two are it.

And I have said it many times before : Bratt and Hughes should not be on the same line together, especially with someone like Johnsson.

This is why Nico's injury hurt the Devils so badly. Because that line with him, Bratt, and Zacha was starting to gel before the injury (thanks, PK).

For sure, since we're not really in a position to be trading 1st round picks it limits our ability to 'trade up' a player like Bratt for someone better. But if a team like Nashville blows it up and dangles a proven scorer like Forsberg, I'd 100% consider packaging Bratt + Picks/Prospects to swing a deal like that.

I personally don't think we'll be making a move like that for a while yet anyway, we're still too much of a dumpster fire overall for it be sensible, but outside of Hughes there's not a single player on this roster I wouldn't at least entertain the idea of trading if the deal made sense.

I think that's what it will take though I have a feeling Nashville may find a better deal elsewhere.

 

[Woncka]

I don’t have a single player on my untouchable list. If we can get a player to improve our team, even if it’s Hughes or Hischier, so be it.

Hischier is untouchable

Hes our captain and a future 1C you can win with. Hes proven enough. As much as Id never trade Jack, its far more reasonable