Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests
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Trapper
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- Nov 21, 2013
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Still not full time. Is he staying or being moved for a goalie?
Hoglund4MvP
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- Jan 26, 2022
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Another thing confuse me as far drafting is concerned, they committed to year 3 sweetener in trading Marleau from day 1, why not plan ahead even further knowing you can't afford to bet a first rounder on Foligno. If you know you will need that skillset at that time should have jumped on it way before with different means instead of last minute over payment for someone injured when you know in 2017 you are already going to lose picks because of marleau.
There's 2 picks right there that just go poof. Not even any more ideas to downgrade the sweetener to a 2nd rounder? Why do we need both aj and kap? sell high on one and use even 1-2 mil of the saved space for retention on Marleau. We didn't have to jump straight into losing seth jarvis and then losing another 1st on foligno.
Hoglund4MvP
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In case people don't know what I'm talking about:
theleafsnation.com
Mike Babcock confirms Maple Leafs signed Patrick Marleau to three-year deal despite knowing “the math didn’t work out”
The Toronto Maple Leafs -- and more notably, general manager Kyle Duba...
theleafsnation.com
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Turn the clock back 4 years to when Dubas was hired as GM, after the Leafs lost to Boston in 7 games in round #1.
He was handed the keys to a 105 point franchise best team that included 5 X high-end core players all drafted top 10 and under age 25 ..
Kadri (7th), Reilly (5th), Nylander (8th), Marner (4th) and of course a franchise #1C in Matthews (#1 OA)
Can anyone imagine that if you asked any Leaf fan, how many years do you think it will take for Dubas to win a single playoff round?
If you knew the answer to that question was guaranteed to be at least 5 years, no sooner and maybe even longer, the conclusion would be almost unanimous that this guy isn't qualified to be an NHL GM.
Now flash back to today, and let reality sink in, because here we are, no further progress since the day he arrived and answering how many test has he passed.
He was handed the keys to a 105 point franchise best team that included 5 X high-end core players all drafted top 10 and under age 25 ..
Kadri (7th), Reilly (5th), Nylander (8th), Marner (4th) and of course a franchise #1C in Matthews (#1 OA)
Can anyone imagine that if you asked any Leaf fan, how many years do you think it will take for Dubas to win a single playoff round?
If you knew the answer to that question was guaranteed to be at least 5 years, no sooner and maybe even longer, the conclusion would be almost unanimous that this guy isn't qualified to be an NHL GM.
Now flash back to today, and let reality sink in, because here we are, no further progress since the day he arrived and answering how many test has he passed.
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deprw
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- Mar 7, 2010
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Would you have kept 6 million dollar fourth liner + first rounder and dumped Kapanen and Johnson for scraps?
That stark change in philosophy from something new, which didn't make sense, to something more conventional a couple years later was a very bad look for a GM that had everyone on edge wondering if a rookie was the right guy to take the Leafs next step.
Watching BOS steal a game by basically just beating us up was like watching an out of control train finally hit a wall. That was so depressing.
He has improved but the time lost and the long term challenges created that can't seem to be undone will continue to be unsettling until progress is made and hope established.
Freddy just got 4th in Vezina voting. Another lesson learned as we scramble to fix the latest priority. Maybe he keeps the next top 10 goalie, if we find one, and rolls with the punches.
Dreakmur
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In case people don't know what I'm talking about:
Mike Babcock confirms Maple Leafs signed Patrick Marleau to three-year deal despite knowing “the math didn’t work out”
The Toronto Maple Leafs -- and more notably, general manager Kyle Duba...
Marleau was overpaid, but that was irrelevant until the rebuild was ended too quickly. He was brought in to help show the kids how to be elite professional athletes. He wasn't brought in to help win in the present. He was brought in to help win in the future. The value he brought was to be paying dividends years after his 3 year contract expired.
Trapper
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- Nov 21, 2013
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5 years ago people here would of laughed at you for saying that, today, they defend it wholeheartedly.
Dreakmur
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I would have, and I said it when they were trying to unload Marleau to make room to resign those RFAs.
Hoglund4MvP
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That's irrelevant to anything I'm saying. I'm talking about the knowledge they already have to help them plan ahead from day 1 of the signing. We should not have lost both 1st rounders (or even any).
it's sad watching other teams hire new coaches and management personnel while we are stuck with this
Trapper
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What do we have have for Kap/Johnsson in the lineup today (or next year) heavily contributing to our success.
If your answer is I don’t know, then yes since they were moved to pay the 4 guys anyway.
Might as well had just picks then.
Hoglund4MvP
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Time has proven this was the best option if the 1st couldn't be changed.
And it wouldn't have been for scraps. Their value was highest that off season.
deprw
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We just have different opinion on that. That's okay. We basicly would have forfeited that season in my mind and got ton of shit for doing that with our window open, but it was definitely one solution and I thought we'd be forced to do that.
Wouldn't have been that high value with us being against the cap.
Hoglund4MvP
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What does our cap situation have to do with trading one of AJ or Kap back then?
The fact they didn't choose losing one of them as the cost of signing Marleau (retention space), and chose to quickly give up a 1st instead, means they valued AJ/Kap as 1st rounders too. Why does our cap situation prevent us from getting nice picks from 1 of them?
deprw
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We could keep either Marleau or Kap and Johnsson. Buyout window was deadline for that decision. Every GM in the league knew those facts.
No one would make fair trade with us before that deadline and we would be squeezed after it.
So we can keep Marleau and lose value with Kap and Johnsson or trade Marleau with incentives.
Marleau was dead weight and overpaid. Younger guys had potential to improve + there was two players instead of one.
That’s so damn sad to look at. Especially after looking at the 2017 picture. That team was so much fun to cheer for.
Hoglund4MvP
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They had 2 years to plan that moment. These are not the only options that were available to them these are the options used to give him a free pass.
deprw
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There was an option to run with Marincin and Rosen as your go to defenders.
In any case problem was Marleau that was so bad dead weight that it basicly made competing for Cup impossible. I run numbers a lot that spring and was horrified when Marleau decided to utilize his no trade clause in a way that he wanted to play either in San José or wanted to be bought out.
We paid that first for chance to contend and to give more time to young players. It was worst squeeze there would be after RFA contracts and Tavares signing. Covid made it annual thing.
There was this chance to have second line with Kadri and Marleau, but it would have been lost season even with that pairing.
Hindsight is easy.
capfit9
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Hoglund4MvP
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Do you agree or disagree they had 2 year to plan what to do with Marleau in the 3rd year?
Do you agree or disagree trading one of AJ/Kap for retention space (could have got a 1st round pick for one too) is a solution to save our 1st rounder, and a solution that make us remain contender? I'm sure others can come up with other possibilities to save our 1st rounder and remain competitive as well
If the answer is yes then they didn't do a good job with Marleau. The move they end up making was brute force impulsive and not clever at all.
Mike Babcock confirms Maple Leafs signed Patrick Marleau to three-year deal despite knowing “the math didn’t work out”
The Toronto Maple Leafs -- and more notably, general manager Kyle Duba...
theleafsnation.com
I will paste this here again so you know why I say the 2 year thing
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You forgot Montreal in 7 as well but it's understandable. That is already quite the lengthy resume of failure so it's easy to lose track at this point.
deprw
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You think that if there was better trade available they would have done the worst? It is pretty safe to assume that we explored every possible option there was. Dubas like his first round picks.Do you agree or disagree they had 2 year to plan what to do with Marleau in the 3rd year?
Do you agree or disagree trading one of AJ/Kap for retention space (could have got a 1st round pick for one too) is a solution to save our 1st rounder, and a solution that make us remain contender? I'm sure others can come up with other possibilities to save our 1st rounder and remain competitive as well
If the answer is yes then they didn't do a good job with Marleau. The move they end up making was brute force impulsive and not clever at all.
Mike Babcock confirms Maple Leafs signed Patrick Marleau to three-year deal despite knowing “the math didn’t work out”
The Toronto Maple Leafs -- and more notably, general manager Kyle Duba...
I will paste this here again so you know why I say the 2 year thing
Marleaus third year was big mistake in first place. It meant that someone had to pay real money for that his not playing for us.
I was pretty sure back then that we have to "forfeit" that season. Since with Marleau we had no room to build good enough team.
In hindsight it's easy to say from here that it would have been ok with bubble playoffs and everything.
It's amazing that the team on the other side ate a big contract for futures and has been a top contender since.Do you agree or disagree they had 2 year to plan what to do with Marleau in the 3rd year?
Do you agree or disagree trading one of AJ/Kap for retention space (could have got a 1st round pick for one too) is a solution to save our 1st rounder, and a solution that make us remain contender? I'm sure others can come up with other possibilities to save our 1st rounder and remain competitive as well
If the answer is yes then they didn't do a good job with Marleau. The move they end up making was brute force impulsive and not clever at all.
Mike Babcock confirms Maple Leafs signed Patrick Marleau to three-year deal despite knowing “the math didn’t work out”
The Toronto Maple Leafs -- and more notably, general manager Kyle Duba...
I will paste this here again so you know why I say the 2 year thing
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