Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

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Great line.

Imagine telling your boss that after failing 6 straight performance reviews. :laugh:



Yeah these year-by-year results you're bringing to the discussion are great and all, but it's all in the past man!!!!

:dunce:
Bwahahahahahahah
 
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"So let me guess this straight, when a cameras around I just scribble notes and people will think I know what I'm doing?"

Don't even get why he's there tbh. There aren't many finns in the CHL
 
Just to be clear, you believe that it's accurate to say that this team can't win a round? That next season, our chances of winning a round are zero?
Looking at the last 6 years, it’s not looking good. And I think if they are going to win a round, it’s going to have to be in 6 or less. I think do or die games are in their heads right now and basically a guaranteed loss at this point.
 
Despite major challenges that Dubas himself played a significant role in creating, he has failed at his job spectacularly would be a more accurate thread title.

How can anyone take what this core has accomplished under his watch and say, "what a success". Some posters on here love this guy more than they do the actual team. To the point that it has warped their expectations to what qualifies as success. It's like a weird cult of personality (or maybe thinking given the analytics junkies fawning over this dude).

All he's accomplished is capping out this team and creating a choke job machine so far.

Trades suck, drafting sucks, no playoff results, no cap space. Any other franchise would have fired this loser already.
 
Looking at the last 6 years, it’s not looking good. And I think if they are going to win a round, it’s going to have to be in 6 or less. I think do or die games are in their heads right now and basically a guaranteed loss at this point.
Yeah winning in 6 would definitely be a good idea. I'd like to think that since we played well in game 7 against TB instead of choking for a change, we don't have to worry about game 7's so much but the sad truth is, we can't really be sure until we win one.

The way we choked away the 4 years previous just before the finish line is one of the most baffling things I've seen in my 50+ years of following NA pro sports. Still makes me sick to think about it.
 
Kyle is like a mutual fund portfolio manager. Telling people to think of the long game and not worry about results. Just long enough for him to squirrel away a good amount of money before people start catching on.

Yup! Best way to describe all the crap he has done to the franchise
 
Yeah winning in 6 would definitely be a good idea. I'd like to think that since we played well in game 7 against TB instead of choking for a change, we don't have to worry about game 7's so much but the sad truth is, we can't really be sure until we win one.

The way we choked away the 4 years previous just before the finish line is one of the most baffling things I've seen in my 50+ years of following NA pro sports. Still makes me sick to think about it.
The sad part is Gary we can’t be sure of anything. We have no idea who we will play next year and what type of game they bring.

It’s quite possible that circumstance matched us up the best against Tampa and we don’t face that next time. We face something that clogs us up and we are basing progress on losing in 7 games to Tampa.

Also the Leafs have done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt. Edmonton might get stomped next year but the difference in franchises currently is seeing is believing.
For Edmonton the hope is winning past where they were. That’s what they know.
For us, it’s not losing where we always lose, that’s what we know.
 
The sad part is Gary we can’t be sure of anything. We have no idea who we will play next year and what type of game they bring.

It’s quite possible that circumstance matched us up the best against Tampa and we don’t face that next time. We face something that clogs us up and we are basing progress on losing in 7 games to Tampa.

Also the Leafs have done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt. Edmonton might get stomped next year but the difference in franchises currently is seeing is believing.
For Edmonton the hope is winning past where they were. That’s what they know.
For us, it’s not losing where we always lose, that’s what we know.

after 6 seasons with...

2 seasons of a team out of rebuild

4 seaons out of a team that got paid under dubas


the so called "success" being defined as getting out of the first round. It is quite pathetic!
 
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Trades suck, drafting sucks, no playoff results, no cap space. Any other franchise would have fired this loser already.
I think he's mostly made good trades and the players we've drafted during his tenure seem to be progressing well so I can't agree with you there.

No playoff results, that's a sad fact. If you want to fire him for that, I can understand that.

No cap space - it's a given that this team will spend to the cap so this isn't really relevant.

The sad part is Gary we can’t be sure of anything. We have no idea who we will play next year and what type of game they bring.

It’s quite possible that circumstance matched us up the best against Tampa and we don’t face that next time. We face something that clogs us up and we are basing progress on losing in 7 games to Tampa.

Also the Leafs have done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt. Edmonton might get stomped next year but the difference in franchises currently is seeing is believing.
For Edmonton the hope is winning past where they were. That’s what they know.
For us, it’s not losing where we always lose, that’s what we know.

There are many sad parts to this story and no, we can't be sure of anything.

It might be fair to call this season progress, but the sad part is that the only reasoning behind calling it progress is how pathetically bad the previous years have been. The Zekes of this world will no doubt point to the regular season and claim we're elite which makes want to throw rocks at them and that's why I have them on ignore but yeah, when a 1st round loss could be considered progress, you know you're in a sad spot.

No benefit of the doubt for this group - that goes without saying. It's going to be a long season but then, I'm used to that - last season was pretty damn long too and no, our "record breaking awesomely elite November" didn't fool me one bit. Time to win some rounds, that is all.

the so called "success" being defined as getting out of the first round. It is quite pathetic!
Success is a subjective term. For me personally, the last 3 seasons have fallen well short of "success", maybe even the last 5. I would say that we came closer to success this season than in the previous 4 seasons but then some people might get angry. ;)
 
Despite major challenges that Dubas himself played a significant role in creating, he has failed at his job spectacularly would be a more accurate thread title.

How can anyone take what this core has accomplished under his watch and say, "what a success". Some posters on here love this guy more than they do the actual team. To the point that it has warped their expectations to what qualifies as success. It's like a weird cult of personality (or maybe thinking given the analytics junkies fawning over this dude).

All he's accomplished is capping out this team and creating a choke job machine so far.

Trades suck, drafting sucks, no playoff results, no cap space. Any other franchise would have fired this loser already.
Failed to win in 5 vs Montreal and CBJ.

Failed to win in 6 vs Boston, Montreal and Tampa.

Failed to win in 7 vs Bostonx2 and Tampa.

The only thing we have not failed to win at is in 4.
 
I think he's mostly made good trades

If you evaluate the trades only based on asset value, he's made mostly good trades. If you evaluate them only based on team needs, it's a lot more mixed. He's got better over time, but he still doesn't seem to fully understand the difference between collecting players and building a team.

and the players we've drafted during his tenure seem to be progressing well so I can't agree with you there.

The drafting has been solid enough. Tough to fully judge after so little time to flesh out. Everyone always has high hopes for recent draft picks. The hype on prospects maxes out at 19-20 and then fades over time, so who knows what these players will actually become.
 
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If you evaluate the trades only based on asset value, he's made mostly good trades. If you evaluate them only based on team needs, it's a lot more mixed. He's got better over time, but he still doesn't seem to fully understand the difference between collecting players and building a team.



The drafting has been solid enough. Tough to fully judge after so little time to flesh out. Everyone always has high hopes for recent draft picks. The hype on prospects maxes out at 19-20 and then fades over time, so who knows what these players will actually become.

Anybody can collect players. It is his job to build a team. Specifically a team that wins in the playoffs. Nobody remembers good regular season teams.

Edit: I still find it hilarious when JD Bunkis says Dubas gets "body bagged" in trades.
 
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show work please
Judging trades will always be somewhat subjective, it's not like you can sort by points or whatever so not sure what kind of "work" you'd like to see.

It's just my opinion, if you disagree then feel free to show your "work".

If you evaluate the trades only based on asset value, he's made mostly good trades. If you evaluate them only based on team needs, it's a lot more mixed. He's got better over time, but he still doesn't seem to fully understand the difference between collecting players and building a team.

The drafting has been solid enough. Tough to fully judge after so little time to flesh out. Everyone always has high hopes for recent draft picks. The hype on prospects maxes out at 19-20 and then fades over time, so who knows what these players will actually become.

You might be right about "collecting players", not sure but it's an interesting thought. As far as team needs go, I think the main point of criticism is our goaltending situation. He's been in charge for what 4 years now? The goalie is arguably the most important player on the team and I think it's fair to say that our goaltending is in the worst shape it's been since Dubas took over. That's just really bad.

Agree that it's too early to say for sure how good or bad the drafting has been. Seems pretty good, but too early to tell for sure. Zero reason for anyone to say he's drafted poorly though, that's just nonsense.
 
If you evaluate the trades only based on asset value, he's made mostly good trades. If you evaluate them only based on team needs, it's a lot more mixed. He's got better over time, but he still doesn't seem to fully understand the difference between collecting players and building a team.



The drafting has been solid enough. Tough to fully judge after so little time to flesh out. Everyone always has high hopes for recent draft picks. The hype on prospects maxes out at 19-20 and then fades over time, so who knows what these players will actually become.
I will have to disagree with the drafting.
We took Matthews in 2016. The last of the 3 big draft picks.
That’s 5 years and currently nobody since then is contributing full time. Not a C, not a D, not a next year full time goalie.
For a half salary cap team that’s a death sentence.
 
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Anybody can collect players. It is his job to build a team. Specifically a team that wins in the playoffs. Nobody remembers good regular season teams.

That's been his biggest failing, but I see him making progress.

He started with the idea what you could roll our 4 pure skill lines.
The addition of Muzzin showed him the value of physicality, even if that wasn't the reason he was acquired.
He acquired Clifford and signed Simmonds, but those guys can't play, so they don't bring enough physicality at the right times.
Bringing in Thornton to add veteran leadership was hilarious.
He signed Ritchie to adds some physicality that can play.... but you don't bring in a lazy player to add a presence.

The additions of Bunting, Kampf, and Lyubushkin give me hope that he's figuring this out.
 
I will have to disagree with the drafting.
We took Matthews in 2016. The last of the 3 big draft picks.
That’s 5 years and currently nobody since then is contributing full time. Not a C, not a D, but a next year full time goalie.
For a half salary cap team that’s a death sentence.
Sean Durzi is contributing full time. Oh, whoops.

Well at least Muzzin helped us win a round. Oh, whoops.
 
Sean Durzi is contributing full time. Oh, whoops.

Well at least Muzzin helped us win a round. Oh, whoops.
1st round pick traded to get rid of Marleau.
1st round pick traded to get Foligno.
Durzi out, Grundstrom out, all of Kadri/Brown/Kap/Johnsson out.
I wanted us to draft Braden Schneider (he was right there for the taking), nope, another LW to go with Robertson/whatever, when D wins championships.
Whatever. Trying to win a round for the 7th time in a row is good though.
 
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