Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[93LEAFS]

The test was winning more than we previously have. We haven't passed that. I'm sorry, but anyone who considers this a pass needs to seriously re-evaluate whatever expectations you had for this team when we hired Dubas. At best you can argue for an incomplete.

 

[Mess]

You sold your boss on a plan.
You bet your job on the plan.
Your boss started you off with 3 players on ELC, great value deals in Kadri/Rielly and a 105 point team.

In 4 years, the best you did was 10 points in the regular season.

Matthews alone from his 2017-18 maturation as a player over the course of those 4 years going from 34 goals and 63 points on a 105 point team to today a 60 goals 106 points and league MVP on a 115 point team, can account for that team improvement.

What use is that 115 point season and +10 point gain, with home ice advantage earned, when you lose to teams below you in the standings without home ice advantage anyways?

At least back in 2018 you still had a team full of young kids, and were the underdogs without home ice against a better more proven and battle tested Bruins team and still took them to a hard fought 7 games. Nowadays a hard fought 7 game series is seen as success and progress 4 years later, when most objective and unbiased people would see NO progress at all and the very same LOST in round #1 end results.

You entered the playoffs and all your boss was able to give you for your efforts on your playoff results was this participation certificate to show how proud he was.

All test passed. !!!

I suppose expectations are different for each individual and for some the bar is set a lot lower than others.

 

[Sypher04]

You’d be hard pressed to find many a Leaf fan who actually say they are satisfied with what happened this playoffs. Expectations were higher pretty well across the board contrary to Mess’ typical overtly negative opinion. Drawing Tampa round 1 was a tough one. Even if Tampa is an excellent team and about as tough a round 1 matchup as anyone could get, I thought it was winnable, and arguably that we should have, and that didn’t happen. That’s on the players/management to fix. But being disappointed with the team not reaching expectations shouldn’t imo be equated to making no progress. I don’t personally believe that be true. Yea the result is the same, but progress is not always about momentary results.

Also while we all rightfully demand playoff success, I dont think people should downplay the difficulty of improving on your team’s franchise record season of 105 points by 10, when that previous mark came with basically all your best players on ELCs. The challenge is completely different, and of course this team was deeper at that time - how could they not have been?

Also people are and have been making way too much of PART of that keefe handshake respect quote. Naturally they leave out the most important part…

 

[93LEAFS]

You’d be hard pressed to find many a Leaf fan who actually say they are satisfied with what happened this playoffs. Expectations were higher pretty well across the board contrary to Mess’ typical overtly negative opinion. Drawing Tampa round 1 was a tough one. Even if Tampa is an excellent team and about as tough a round 1 matchup as anyone could get, I thought it was winnable, and arguably that we should have, and that didn’t happen. That’s on the players/management to fix. But being disappointed with the team not reaching expectations shouldn’t imo be equated to making no progress. I don’t personally believe that be true. Yea the result is the same, but progress is not always about momentary results.

Also while we all rightfully demand playoff success, I dont think people should downplay the difficulty of improving on your team’s franchise record season of 105 points by 10, when that previous mark came with basically all your best players on ELCs. The challenge is completely different, and of course this team was deeper at that time - how could they not have been?

Also people are and have been making way too much of PART of that keefe handshake respect quote. Naturally they leave out the most important part…

Tampa doesn't bother me that much, but we are measuring his entire tenure. Everyone loses to great teams at times. But, its this on the back of back to back elimination games to teams we were heavy favorites against. If anything those playoff loses were way worse than the losses to the Bruins. The other thing is, we had great chances vs Tampa and Montreal to put the game away prior to a game 7 and didn't.

And while we have different obstacles when tighter against the cap and not on ELC's. We have trade way more of our futures than either of the first two playoff years prior to Dubas getting promoted.

 

[DarkKnight]

I love when this thread comes up top again, we all need a laugh in these trying times.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Major challenges he created himself - and is still creating

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

perry maroon colton paul in our bottom 6 would have won us a cup this season. That cost less than 5 mil. How many years is Dubas going to get to build the rest of the roster?

At this point some people have to be putting on an act being okay watching the core go to waste. Our bottom 6 is so easy to build because of what our core is comprised of but they keep going for losers instead. It's sabotage at this point someone check Dubas' closet for Habs pajamas

 

[ToneDog]

Tampa doesn't bother me that much, but we are measuring his entire tenure. Everyone loses to great teams at times. But, its this on the back of back to back elimination games to teams we were heavy favorites against. If anything those playoff loses were way worse than the losses to the Bruins. The other thing is, we had great chances vs Tampa and Montreal to put the game away prior to a game 7 and didn't.

And while we have different obstacles when tighter against the cap and not on ELC's. We have trade way more of our futures than either of the first two playoff years prior to Dubas getting promoted.

Yet some will claim Dubas will leave the next GM in a better position than the last GM. Look for him to start dipping into our 2026 draft pool soon. I mean he already traded a 2025 second-round pick conditionally to get rid of Ritchie and he has the Mrazek mistake waiting in the wings.

 

[Mess]

You’d be hard pressed to find many a Leaf fan who actually say they are satisfied with what happened this playoffs. Expectations were higher pretty well across the board contrary to Mess’ typical overtly negative opinion. Drawing Tampa round 1 was a tough one. Even if Tampa is an excellent team and about as tough a round 1 matchup as anyone could get, I thought it was winnable, and arguably that we should have, and that didn’t happen. That’s on the players/management to fix. But being disappointed with the team not reaching expectations shouldn’t imo be equated to making no progress. I don’t personally believe that be true. Yea the result is the same, but progress is not always about momentary results.

Also while we all rightfully demand playoff success, I dont think people should downplay the difficulty of improving on your team’s franchise record season of 105 points by 10, when that previous mark came with basically all your best players on ELCs. The challenge is completely different, and of course this team was deeper at that time - how could they not have been?

Also people are and have been making way too much of PART of that keefe handshake respect quote. Naturally they leave out the most important part…

Talk is cheap.

That is the whole point of fan frustration and disappointment, as its management that is leaving out and not delivering on the most important part "WINNING".

Its not missing from the quote, its the actual missing from the results of lost in round #1, which a lot of Leaf fans seem to be overlooking.

The "respect" part is the sugar coating and fluff nonsense to help soften the actual failure part, which no normal experienced coach would even say outloud, as it comes across as some self gratifying praising of patting oneself on the back that emphasizes the opposition coach and team is so much better, and they acknowledge that our inexperienced coach held his own. Nobody but Keefe would take anything away from that, and bury the lead at the very end almost as an afterthought when he realized he was going to get mocked as the laughter was beginning for saying something so ridiculous. Nobody plays professional sports to earn opponents respect, when the objective is to beat them and claim respect in victory not seek it in defeat.

Maple Leafs coach Sheldon Keefe said the lamest thing after Game 7 loss and NHL fans ripped him​

“We got a lot of respect in that (handshake) line from that team, which is nice to see. It was a much different tone and much different feeling of respect from the other side from what we’ve experienced previously. We’re certainly earning respect in the league but, again, we’re not in the respect game. We’re in the winning game.”

 

[Havoc]

perry maroon colton paul in our bottom 6 would have won us a cup this season. That cost less than 5 mil. How many years is Dubas going to get to build the rest of the roster?

At this point some people have to be putting on an act being okay watching the core go to waste. Our bottom 6 is so easy to build because of what our core is comprised of but they keep going for losers instead. It's sabotage at this point someone check Dubas' closet for Habs pajamas

If they build us a playoff worthy bottom 6, and we still win nothing, only then will I start to look into the core / cap hits.

We still use the 4th line as a country club for old guys and damaged goods so it's hard to sell me on the core being the problem. Our core mopped the floor with Tampa's core in round 1. I still can't believe we lost that series.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Talk is cheap.

That is the whole point of fan frustration and disappointment, as its management that is leaving out and not delivering on the most important part "WINNING".

Its not missing from the quote, its the actual missing from the results of lost in round #1, which a lot of Leaf fans seem to be overlooking.

The "respect" part is the sugar coating and fluff nonsense to help soften the actual failure part, which no normal experienced coach would even say outloud, as it comes across as some self gratifying praising of patting oneself on the back that emphasizes the opposition coach and team is so much better, and they acknowledge that our inexperienced coach held his own. Nobody but Keefe would take anything away from that, and bury the lead at the very end almost as an afterthought when he realized he was going to get mocked as the laughter was beginning for saying something so ridiculous. Nobody plays professional sports to earn opponents respect, when the objective is to beat them and claim respect in victory not seek it in defeat.

Maple Leafs coach Sheldon Keefe said the lamest thing after Game 7 loss and NHL fans ripped him​

“We got a lot of respect in that (handshake) line from that team, which is nice to see. It was a much different tone and much different feeling of respect from the other side from what we’ve experienced previously. We’re certainly earning respect in the league but, again, we’re not in the respect game. We’re in the winning game.”

Wow that clip is even worse then I thought! "We are gaining respect" lmao

Also, Kadri looked good getting the OT game winning goal last night. We sure could've used a timely goal from a player like that. Oh right, dubas traded Kadri for kerfoot and barrie.

Dubas should've been fired in 2019. Maybe we would have at least 1 series win by now instead of three more wasted years.

 

[socko]

They need to replace the goal song next year from Hall & Oates to Aretha Franklin's Respect.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Wow that clip is even worse then I thought! "We are gaining respect" lmao

Also, Kadri looked good getting the OT game winning goal last night. We sure could've used a timely goal from a player like that. Oh right, dubas traded Kadri for kerfoot and barrie.

Dubas should've been fired in 2019. Maybe we would have at least 1 series win by now instead of three more wasted years.

Kadri liked wearing the Leafs jersey more than any other player during this era from my stance. Thats important, he cared and had pride. He was the one guy with grit, courage and push back with a bunch of skilled young guys. Kadri stood up for them all. This is a meat and potatoes, soul type of player. Dubas trying to upgrade on this type of player, paying 6.5 million more for Tavares has effed this team up. U will never see Tavares drop the gloves because passion and courage are running hot. Broken thumb last night, im sure Kadri was begging to get into the lineup, hockey gods blessed him.

 

[ToneDog]

Kadri liked wearing the Leafs jersey more than any other player during this era from my stance. Thats important, he cared and had pride. He was the one guy with grit, courage and push back with a bunch of skilled young guys. Kadri stood up for them all. This is a meat and potatoes, soul type of player. Dubas trying to upgrade on this type of player, paying 6.5 million more for Tavares has effed this team up. U will never see Tavares drop the gloves because passion and courage are running hot. Broken thumb last night, im sure Kadri was begging to get into the lineup, hockey gods blessed him.

As Bunkis said this morning and in the past. Rather have a guy who cares more than a guy who does not care much. In fairness to the Leafs this version of Kadri is so much better than the one who played #3C his last year here. Question is, does he revert back to the old Kadri once he signs his next huge deal or does he reman a PPG+ player? Either way he will have his name engraved on the Cup but not as a Leaf.

Happy for him.

 

[hotpaws]

Talk is cheap.

That is the whole point of fan frustration and disappointment, as its management that is leaving out and not delivering on the most important part "WINNING".

Its not missing from the quote, its the actual missing from the results of lost in round #1, which a lot of Leaf fans seem to be overlooking.

The "respect" part is the sugar coating and fluff nonsense to help soften the actual failure part, which no normal experienced coach would even say outloud, as it comes across as some self gratifying praising of patting oneself on the back that emphasizes the opposition coach and team is so much better, and they acknowledge that our inexperienced coach held his own. Nobody but Keefe would take anything away from that, and bury the lead at the very end almost as an afterthought when he realized he was going to get mocked as the laughter was beginning for saying something so ridiculous. Nobody plays professional sports to earn opponents respect, when the objective is to beat them and claim respect in victory not seek it in defeat.

Maple Leafs coach Sheldon Keefe said the lamest thing after Game 7 loss and NHL fans ripped him​

“We got a lot of respect in that (handshake) line from that team, which is nice to see. It was a much different tone and much different feeling of respect from the other side from what we’ve experienced previously. We’re certainly earning respect in the league but, again, we’re not in the respect game. We’re in the winning game.”

The idiot must of thought that was clever at the time .

Oh look at me I came up with something new to say after another loss . Lol .

 

[capfit9]

Matthews alone from his 2017-18 maturation as a player over the course of those 4 years going from 34 goals and 63 points on a 105 point team to today a 60 goals 106 points and league MVP on a 115 point team, can account for that team improvement.

What use is that 115 point season and +10 point gain, with home ice advantage earned, when you lose to teams below you in the standings without home ice advantage anyways?

At least back in 2018 you still had a team full of young kids, and were the underdogs without home ice against a better more proven and battle tested Bruins team and still took them to a hard fought 7 games. Nowadays a hard fought 7 game series is seen as success and progress 4 years later, when most objective and unbiased people would see NO progress at all and the very same LOST in round #1 end results.

You entered the playoffs and all your boss was able to give you for your efforts on your playoff results was this participation certificate to show how proud he was.

View attachment 561338

All test passed. !!!

I suppose expectations are different for each individual and for some the bar is set a lot lower than others.

 

[Racer88]

You’d be hard pressed to find many a Leaf fan who actually say they are satisfied with what happened this playoffs. Expectations were higher pretty well across the board contrary to Mess’ typical overtly negative opinion. Drawing Tampa round 1 was a tough one. Even if Tampa is an excellent team and about as tough a round 1 matchup as anyone could get, I thought it was winnable, and arguably that we should have, and that didn’t happen. That’s on the players/management to fix. But being disappointed with the team not reaching expectations shouldn’t imo be equated to making no progress. I don’t personally believe that be true. Yea the result is the same, but progress is not always about momentary results.

Also while we all rightfully demand playoff success, I dont think people should downplay the difficulty of improving on your team’s franchise record season of 105 points by 10, when that previous mark came with basically all your best players on ELCs. The challenge is completely different, and of course this team was deeper at that time - how could they not have been?

Also people are and have been making way too much of PART of that keefe handshake respect quote. Naturally they leave out the most important part…

Absolutely the team was deeper at the time…….mainly because we didn’t have 4 forwards eating up 50% of the cap. I know this has been beat to death but it’s 100% relevant. We were always going to have to pay our 3 young stars but adding the 3rd 11 million dollar players was so wrong

 

[Sypher04]

Absolutely the team was deeper at the time…….mainly because we didn’t have 4 forwards eating up 50% of the cap. I know this has been beat to death but it’s 100% relevant. We were always going to have to pay our 3 young stars but adding the 3rd 11 million dollar players was so wrong

My point wasn’t that we could have had more depth now if things had happened differently just to say that building a deep team when your best players are all on ELCs vs being paid like the stars they are not even remotely similar challenges. The fact this team has improved on their franchise best in that scenario should not be minimized even if we are all still disappointed with how the year ended

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Matthews alone from his 2017-18 maturation as a player over the course of those 4 years going from 34 goals and 63 points on a 105 point team to today a 60 goals 106 points and league MVP on a 115 point team, can account for that team improvement.

What use is that 115 point season and +10 point gain, with home ice advantage earned, when you lose to teams below you in the standings without home ice advantage anyways?

At least back in 2018 you still had a team full of young kids, and were the underdogs without home ice against a better more proven and battle tested Bruins team and still took them to a hard fought 7 games. Nowadays a hard fought 7 game series is seen as success and progress 4 years later, when most objective and unbiased people would see NO progress at all and the very same LOST in round #1 end results.

You entered the playoffs and all your boss was able to give you for your efforts on your playoff results was this participation certificate to show how proud he was.

View attachment 561338

All test passed. !!!

I suppose expectations are different for each individual and for some the bar is set a lot lower than others.

I am so despondent after watching the other teams play deeper in the playoffs. The main reason is, I have no hope that we can EVER play the way we need to to win a Cup, never mind a round or 2. The desperation and effort to get to loose pucks and to block shots is so lacking (for us) compared to the Final 4 its almost comical. The fight that we needed to have just for 1 round wasn't there...to go 4 rds is really almost impossible with the way this team is built. We have nobody coming up that has some size and snarl besides Knies...and no..I don't consider Joey Anderson to be a guy who can do anything remotely close to what we need. It's just depressing to see other teams play their heart out every single night and we can't even do it for 4 games.

Major challenges he created himself - and is still creating

The gift that keeps on giving...

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

My point wasn’t that we could have had more depth now if things had happened differently just to say that building a deep team when your best players are all on ELCs vs being paid like the stars they are not even remotely similar challenges. The fact this team has improved on their franchise best in that scenario should not be minimized even if we are all still disappointed with how the year ended

Record setting season and Keefe didn't receive a single first place vote.

Matthews on other hand cleaned house at awards in spite of general public thinking mcdavid deserved the Hart.

It is straight forward why Leafs still improve even though they are playoff flops. Combine impact of matthews marner and nylander is just that good and the 3 of them combined will be even better again next year.

Question remaining is will Dubas finally build bottom 6 that can take advantage and maximize wins in playoffs or is he going to waste another year.

(I leave out tavares because he peak by now so doesn't lead to improvement, but his impact is huge too being a 2C behind matthews).

 

[Leaf Fans]

Talk is cheap.

That is the whole point of fan frustration and disappointment, as its management that is leaving out and not delivering on the most important part "WINNING".

Its not missing from the quote, its the actual missing from the results of lost in round #1, which a lot of Leaf fans seem to be overlooking.

The "respect" part is the sugar coating and fluff nonsense to help soften the actual failure part, which no normal experienced coach would even say outloud, as it comes across as some self gratifying praising of patting oneself on the back that emphasizes the opposition coach and team is so much better, and they acknowledge that our inexperienced coach held his own. Nobody but Keefe would take anything away from that, and bury the lead at the very end almost as an afterthought when he realized he was going to get mocked as the laughter was beginning for saying something so ridiculous. Nobody plays professional sports to earn opponents respect, when the objective is to beat them and claim respect in victory not seek it in defeat.

Maple Leafs coach Sheldon Keefe said the lamest thing after Game 7 loss and NHL fans ripped him​

“We got a lot of respect in that (handshake) line from that team, which is nice to see. It was a much different tone and much different feeling of respect from the other side from what we’ve experienced previously. We’re certainly earning respect in the league but, again, we’re not in the respect game. We’re in the winning game.”

We are in the winning game. Sure, respect is nice, but winning is better.

 

[hamzarocks]

We are in the winning game. Sure, respect is nice, but winning is better.

Well be in the winning game once we actually you know win

Right now we are a team missing something.

Coach leads us to a 115 ot season then goes MIA in the playoffs

Depth produces very strongly in the reg season than can't finish in the close out games vs Tampa

Defense is consistently good in the reg season then Brodie is getting walked by Paul, kerfoot is dropping the puck to no one and Giordano my God is getting humiliated by Cirelli

Winning game seems to be more mental than talent based. This team needs to find the winning mentality somehow because on the ice they always manage to go to very last game of a series but can't actually win there

Need a mental shift somehow. Could be getting a different voice in the room who can will us emotionally to compete and get that killer instinct.

Leafs find a way to win 1 round and I don't see us winning less than 10 playoff games after that.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Well be in the winning game once we actually you know win

Right now we are a team missing something.

Coach leads us to a 115 ot season then goes MIA in the playoffs

Depth produces very strongly in the reg season than can't finish in the close out games vs Tampa

Defense is consistently good in the reg season then Brodie is getting walked by Paul, kerfoot is dropping the puck to no one and Giordano my God is getting humiliated by Cirelli

Winning game seems to be more mental than talent based. This team needs to find the winning mentality somehow because on the ice they always manage to go to very last game of a series but can't actually win there

Need a mental shift somehow. Could be getting a different voice in the room who can will us emotionally to compete and get that killer instinct.

Leafs find a way to win 1 round and I don't see us winning less than 10 playoff games after that.

Yes, obviously we need to win first. But winning is better than respect, but there is nothing wrong with respect.

Wow that clip is even worse then I thought! "We are gaining respect" lmao

Also, Kadri looked good getting the OT game winning goal last night. We sure could've used a timely goal from a player like that. Oh right, dubas traded Kadri for kerfoot and barrie.

Dubas should've been fired in 2019. Maybe we would have at least 1 series win by now instead of three more wasted years.

You just remembered the trade?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I am so despondent after watching the other teams play deeper in the playoffs. The main reason is, I have no hope that we can EVER play the way we need to to win a Cup, never mind a round or 2. The desperation and effort to get to loose pucks and to block shots is so lacking (for us) compared to the Final 4 its almost comical. The fight that we needed to have just for 1 round wasn't there...to go 4 rds is really almost impossible with the way this team is built. We have nobody coming up that has some size and snarl besides Knies...and no..I don't consider Joey Anderson to be a guy who can do anything remotely close to what we need. It's just depressing to see other teams play their heart out every single night and we can't even do it for 4 games.


The gift that keeps on giving...

Thinking this team can't EVER win even one round is way over the top. Play like we did against TB and we beat most teams and had the refs done a better job, we would have beaten TB as well.

 

[makbeer]

2022	54-21-7	Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
2021	35-14-7	Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
2020	36-25-9	Lost Qualifying Round (Won 0 Rounds)
2019	46-28-8	Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
2018	49-26-7	Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
2017	40-27-15	Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)

No tests have been passed.