Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[Dreakmur]

So how does it fall on Lou once he is gone ?

It doesn't. Lou made some mistakes, but I don't think that was one of them.

 

[Mess]

It's amazing that the team on the other side ate a big contract for futures and has been a top contender since.

FWIW

The Player that Carolina chose with Leafs pick in the Marleau deal was Seth Jarvis who is already a regular in the NHL.

2021-22 - Carolina Hurricanes NHL .. 68 games 17 goals 23 assists 40 points
&
Playoffs 14 games 3- 5-8 points

 

[Atomos2]

The only people who should be giving Dubas an A+ are the Colorado Avalanche organization.

 

[Apotheosis]

It's a simple thought exercise that I think 99% of the fanbase won't be able to reconcile with their previously held expectations.

You could make a case, once upon a time, that those original Leafs teams that lost to Washington/Boston were knocking on the door of greatness/success but after 6 consecutive first round exits, it's pretty clear that the door was always locked from the outside due in large part to gross roster mismanagement.

Not even going to begin to defend Dubas here, but I think the much larger problem was actually the early success had the Leafs top brass at the time (before Dubas took over) way too trigger happy thinking the team was further ahead than it actually was. Case in point, Mackinnon and the Avs broke out but they bottomed out in a year where Makar and Heiskanen were in the top 4 of a draft. The Leafs have no true number 1 D that logs and does well in huge minutes. The early success is what made them deviate from slower development and made them think that signing Tavares to that horrible contract was a good idea. Another year bottoming out for either another blue chip forward or even better, top D prospect would have paid dividends in the future. No albatross Tavares contract, better D core and more importantly, deeper team which would have included Kadri and the money to spend on a goalie instead of a centre we did not even need.

 

[deprw]

.....this makes no sense to the topic. Compensation for money they were looking for is a 2nd rounder. We could have ran the risk knowing worst case we get a 2nd rounder if we can't get a 1st.

So we gave up first and got first later back, had better team and more flexibility. So what was the problem?

Season to contend is worth something. It cost us first but we got one back later. In hindsight it's nice to complain, when we know what happened. Back then it gave us a chance.

6,5 million support level player is quite A burden and to lose young players under their value to keep that player.

 

[DarkKnight]

The only people who should be giving Dubas an A+ are the Colorado Avalanche organization.

And agents.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I see we're back to pretending that the rebuild wasn't long, long done by 2018, in an attempt to blame the crippling cap anchor and its resulting impacts on the guy who was forced to deal with it instead of the guy who made the stupid signing in the first place.

 

[ToneDog]

Maurice on Jeff Marek show talked about getting the coaching gig in Florida says he is getting a Ferarri but has to teach that Ferrari how to drive fast on wet roads because the regular season and playoffs are different animals. Talked our the Wings, Pens and Tampa teams not winning until they bought into being harder to play against defensively. Let's see if he can and how long it takes him to get them over the hump. So far Kyle and his buddy haven't been able to do so in 4/3 years.

 

[socko]

The only people who should be giving Dubas an A+ are the Colorado Avalanche organization.

Hey now, let's not forget about the player agents.... They voted Kyle the best of the best.

 

[socko]

I see we're back to pretending that the rebuild wasn't long, long done by 2018, in an attempt to blame the crippling cap anchor and its resulting impacts on the guy who was forced to deal with it instead of the guy who made the stupid signing in the first place.

We haven't hired the guy forced to deal with it yet. $11 million for Tavares, good god you have to be kidding.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We haven't hired the guy forced to deal with it yet.

Dubas was already forced to deal with Marleau years ago.

 

[socko]

Dubas was already forced to deal with it years ago.

So you're saying the same guy who caused all the problems is the same guy we're looking at to fix them? Oh my, I think you're correct. We're screwed.

 

[hamzarocks]

Dubas was already forced to deal with it years ago.

And he dealt with it poorly

The whole 2019 offseason was a bad one by Dubas

Marleau trade, Kadri Trade, extending Kap+AJ only to get rid of them a year later, no backup goalie (Hutch) costing us points in the reg season

The 2020 season was our weakest with the team taking a hit due to poor decisions by dubas in the summer

He's onto his 5th offseason now so he's had control of the team for near half a decade.

Needs to build a winner or be removed next year. Time to prove he's actually a capable GM

 

[Dekes For Days]

So you're saying the same guy who caused all the problems is the same guy we're looking at to fix them?

No, obviously not. Dubas is the one that fixed the problem that Lou caused. What "problems" do you think need fixing?

And he dealt with it poorly

Not really. He dealt with it in the way that was necessary.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Dubas was already forced to deal with Marleau years ago.

The rebuild has been going on since they hired Fletcher for the interim (post JFJ). All the weight shouldn't be on Dubas, but you have to wonder about Shanahan...

 

[egd27]

If he likes his 1st rounders so much explain to me Foligno? We just lost our 1st for Marleau what are we doing being so irresponsible with Foligno?

Dubas is an inexperienced manager and that leads to making decisions based on impatience. Look no further than his first significant move after taking the reins.

Long term, strategic thinking, doesn't seem to be a skill that he has developed yet. It was a mistake to promote him to GM.

 

[socko]

Partial List of Problems:

Don't overpay Nylander
Don't sign Tavares
Don't trade Kadri for Kerfoot/Barrie
Don't overpay Marner
Keep Marleau
Don't trade for Foligno
Sign Matthews to longer deal

You could summarize by just saying he completely sucks at his job and should have been fired a long time ago.

 

[Gallagbi]

FWIW

The Player that Carolina chose with Leafs pick in the Marleau deal was Seth Jarvis who is already a regular in the NHL.

2021-22 - Carolina Hurricanes NHL .. 68 games 17 goals 23 assists 40 points
&
Playoffs 14 games 3- 5-8 points

Think a 5'10, 175lbs RWer would have went over well here?

 

[DarkKnight]

Oh the Marleau contract, my lord I think people have got their mileage out of that one. They’ll also simultaneously ignore that Mrazek stench we have to deal with now.

 

[socko]

And the Marleau contract would have done nothing without that terrible Tavares signing. The Mrazek contract is happening during our prime window of opportunity and it along with the terrible Tavares contract is killing us. Dubas will no doubt be throwing away more draft picks.

 

[DarkKnight]

And the Marleau contract would have done nothing without that terrible Tavares signing. The Mrazek contract is happening during our prime window of opportunity and it along with the terrible Tavares contract is killing us. Dubas will no doubt be throwing away more draft picks.

The Marleau contract was one year too long as well, yet it’s the root of all evil apparently. Meanwhile we’re stuck with this boat anchor for another two years, unless we give up something significant, which we will.

 

[ACC1224]

And he dealt with it poorly

The whole 2019 offseason was a bad one by Dubas

Marleau trade, Kadri Trade, extending Kap+AJ only to get rid of them a year later, no backup goalie (Hutch) costing us points in the reg season

The 2020 season was our weakest with the team taking a hit due to poor decisions by dubas in the summer

He's onto his 5th offseason now so he's had control of the team for near half a decade.

Needs to build a winner or be removed next year. Time to prove he's actually a capable GM

Yeah there really is no arguing otherwise, the Marleau debacle is just a part of it. He made his own mess. Really just head in the sand to pretend anything else. All we can hope for is that he’s learned from it.

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas is an inexperienced manager and that leads to making decisions based on impatience. Look no further than his first significant move after taking the reins.

Long term, strategic thinking, doesn't seem to be a skill that he has developed yet. It was a mistake to promote him to GM.

Desperate to dump Kadri and blew that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Partial List of Problems:

Don't overpay Nylander
Don't sign Tavares
Don't trade Kadri for Kerfoot/'Barrie
Don't overpay Marner
Keep Marleau
Don't trade for Foligno
Sign Matthews to longer deal

None of those are current problems. They're past grievances based largely on hindsight, an improper understanding of contracts, and blaming our GM for a global pandemic.

Marner and Nylander weren't overpaid. Their contracts are consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts, and in the present, both provide considerably more value and impact to the team than their cap hits. Matthews was signed to the term he was to ensure that everybody could be fit in. 5 years is the most common post-ELC term for a player of that caliber. He's still locked up for 2 more years and seems likely to re-sign, so it's also not a current problem.

It's easy to say with hindsight that we shouldn't have traded for Foligno, since he got injured while he was here, and we didn't win the cup, but we were in a go-for-it situation, Foligno was exactly the type of player that everybody here was dying for, and we know for a fact from the Prime series that multiple teams were offering 1sts, so it's not like we paid beyond the established price. It sucks that we didn't end up getting a ton of value out of Foligno, and I probably would have preferred Hall at their respective costs, but teams in our position buy rentals.

Kadri had just been suspended for the 2nd consecutive playoffs after a history of discipline issues and had to go, and the trade was widely seen as a win at the time. We needed a middle-six forward who was good defensively and on the PK more than we needed a slightly more offensive but less defensive middle-six forward who was good on the PP and who would get suspended every playoffs, and it allowed us to add a defenseman who checked off a lot of boxes (cheap 20+ min right-handed puck mover with a big PP shot coming off an excellent playoffs) in our biggest cap crunch year.

Keeping Marleau wasn't an option. You don't significantly hinder yourself in a competitive year and sell off actual helpful players for under value in order to drag around 6+ million dead weight in an on-ice liability that doesn't even want to be there. Tavares isn't a problem. He is a big part of our team and adds a lot of value, and we added him for zero assets. If signing a PPG #1 center to a reasonable UFA deal is your biggest problem, you're doing pretty well.

 

[notbias]

Maurice on Jeff Marek show talked about getting the coaching gig in Florida says he is getting a Ferarri but has to teach that Ferrari how to drive fast on wet roads because the regular season and playoffs are different animals. Talked our the Wings, Pens and Tampa teams not winning until they bought into being harder to play against defensively. Let's see if he can and how long it takes him to get them over the hump. So far Kyle and his buddy haven't been able to do so in 4/3 years.

Worked well in Winnipeg for him

Dubas is an inexperienced manager and that leads to making decisions based on impatience. Look no further than his first significant move after taking the reins.

Long term, strategic thinking, doesn't seem to be a skill that he has developed yet. It was a mistake to promote him to GM.

You guys are all crying he is too patient with the team and you want major changes and now he is too impatient too?