Rumor: Dave Pagnotta of the 4th Period- Canucks getting plenty of calls/offers on JT Miller

[Just A Bit Outside]

If NYR, scrap the 1st and Lundkvist and replace with Othmann and Schneider.

Chytil (C), Schneider (D) + Othmann (W).

Retain on Miller if need be.

 

[StickShift]

The Canucks ought to hold out for an absolute homerun of a deal. Rutherford is in no rush to trade him at this deadline. He still has the off-season or next year's deadline if he needs to holdout. And re-signing him hasn't been ruled out either.

If they do engage in discussions they ought to target teams like Carolina or Florida who may still want to load up in case they need to go through Tampa and who are peaking at a time when they can fully take advantage of Miller's low AAV.

In either scenario—If I'm Vancouver, I'm asking for Necas from Carolina or Lundell from Florida.

 

[bossram]

I'm not so convinced:

Previous Cup Champs

Tampa- No regular Dman under 6'0
St L Blues- No regular Dman under 6'0. Vince Dunn is was their smallest Dman, He is listed 6'0-6'1
Washington Caps- No regular Dman under 6'0- Orlov was their smallest and he is listed at 6'0
Pittsburgh Pens- 1 Regular Dman under 6-0. Trevor Daley listed at 5'11
Chicago Blackhawks- 1 regular Dman under 6'0- Kimo Timonnen is 5-11

Thats almost a decade of the the last Stanley Cup Champions not having more than 1 guy under 6 feet on their D core.

You're suggesting the Canucks carry 3.

Hughes - 5'10
Rathbone - 5'10
Lundqvist- 5'11

Yes, I am suggesting the Canucks try to acquire and retain high-level defensemen. If Rathbone/Lundkvist simply aren't that good, then no, I wouldn't keep them. But there is certainly room on a blueline for three guys who can provide top-four (or better) quality puck-moving and offensive ability.

The Jack Rathbone measurements are going to be outdated too. You watch him in person or on the ice...he's not that short. I'd peg him around 6' now.

Acquiring Coke Machine defensemen is why the Canucks have had such an awful blueline over the entirety of the Benning era.

 

[bossram]

The Canucks ought to hold out for an absolute homerun of a deal. Rutherford is in no rush to trade him at this deadline. He still has the off-season or next year's deadline if he needs to holdout. And re-signing him hasn't been ruled out either.

If they do engage in discussions they ought to target teams like Carolina or Florida who may still want to load up in case they need to go through Tampa and who are peaking at a time when they can fully take advantage of Miller's low AAV.

In either scenario—If I'm Vancouver, I'm asking for Necas from Carolina or Lundell from Florida.

The Canucks simply will not be getting either of those players, full stop. And this is coming from a Vancouverite.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Both have shown more ability to play in the top 6 then Greenway, a player who would be completely redundant on our team.

I would think we could get more for Miller than assets we don't really need, even the 1st will be low.

Add to that another undersized Dman who was drafted 3 years ago and can't make the big club, no thanks.

to be fair with Addison, when he is up he clearly looks like he should be on the big club above others, the wild would rather he be having top pairing minutes in the AHL than 3rd pair nhl minutes as when we are fully healthy he is not above Dumba or Spurgeon, yet.

 

[Canuck Luck]

I see a first+ a recently taken 1st prospect plus two plug in roster players that are RFA aged plus another top 60 pick that has a chance at being a top 32 pick. that’s considerably more no?

Except the Canucks have no use for wingers. We have Podkolzin/hoglander/boeser on the wings already that are young.

Let’s say abrimov = Canucks 1st in that deal. Leafs 1st = Foote. Now miller is a much much better player than Coleman at 800k more salary AND you’re dumping salary back. The 2nd round pick is going to be a late 2nd. Imo that’s not enough payment for dumping ritchie’s 2.5M and the difference in caliber of player. Take Ritchie out of the deal and then the value is fair. Doesn’t meet the Canucks needs, but value would be what we expect for miller at 50%.

the younger roster players is a generous way of saying 2 25 year olds even your own team doesn’t play.

Ritchie cleared waivers. He’s a cap dump. Nobody is taking him for free yet you think he has any sort of value that’s positive? He’s a 0 value asset at best and more of a negative asset due to his 2.5M for the next season.
Dermott has been a healthy scratch for the leafs for almost 1/4th of the season (8 games). He’s a bottom pairing lhd. He’s 25 with over 200 games played. He is what he is at this point. He’s worth a 3rd if you’re lucky and a team overpays at the deadline. To the Canucks he’s just a filler. We don’t need a lhd. You can take him out of the proposal and it would make 0 difference to us. If anything we’d prefer the 3rd round pick he may fetch over him.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

to be fair with Addison, when he is up he clearly looks like he should be on the big club above others, the wild would rather he be having top pairing minutes in the AHL than 3rd pair nhl minutes as when we are fully healthy he is not above Dumba or Spurgeon, yet.

Fair enough, I still don't think he's the type of Dman we need.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Fair enough, I still don't think he's the type of Dman we need.

i wont try to change that view for you as a right handed less skilled hughes is not really what id be wanting for your team as well. just wanted to clear that up as not making the big club this year has many more factors than if he is ready to or not. Dumba makes more sense but i could see why you would say no.

 

[nergish]

If NYR, scrap the 1st and Lundkvist and replace with Othmann and Schneider.

Chytil (C), Schneider (D) + Othmann (W).

Retain on Miller if need be.

Miller (2.25 mil retained)
Jack Rathbone
Halak

for

Chytil
B. Schneider
Kravtsov
Othmann

 

[UrbanImpact]

Tampa would be such a fantastic fit for Miller.

The problem is their 1st round picks isnt really that valuable as it will be a late one and they dont really have many top end prospects in their system as they have been picking during the later part of the rounds the last few years.

Stamkos
Kucherov
Point
Cirelli
Palat
Killorn
Miller

That would be incredibly ridiculous to deal with in the playoffs.

Then you have Hedman and Vasi

 

[UrbanImpact]

Miller (2.25 mil retained)
Jack Rathbone
Halak

for

Chytil
B. Schneider
Kravtsov
Othmann

Rutherford immediately after agreeing to the trade:

 

[TheFinalWord]

Dubas destroyed the RFA market and it looks like he has also destroyed the trade market with his Foligno trade. Pagnotta is right. Foligno as a 30 point player returned a 1st round pick, Miller as a point per game player with an extra year should return 3 first round picks

Dubas can't control what other teams do. It doesn't matter what he paid for Foligno. Other teams can hold out for a similar haul for a similar player, but if nobody is buying at that price, then the prices drop and normalize. Same thing with RFA price. Other agents can show what Marner got, but the GM's can tell them to stuff it and let them sit out. One or two players does not make market. It's weak to blame one GM.

 

[dman34]

Miller 50% retained & Luke Schenn
22 1st + Amirov/Robertson + Dermott + Ritchie (cap) +23 2nd that becomes a 1st based on a Cup final appearance in either the 22 or 23 post-season or Miller re-upping in TML.

 

[Phrasing]

Doubt Canucks would be interested in picks given the age of the group of the roster— it would take 3 years for that player to be a reliable contributor. Likely would be for a young NHL player or NHL ready ready prospect if it did happen. Pretty sure JR said as much in one of his many interviews since taking the job.

 

[Overrateprospects]

You say this, yet your first post in this thread was this garbage:



Tell me who started the garbage slinging here?

I have had many insults and some racial from people. I got told 2 firsts plus a prospect wasn’t enough for JT Miller in a trade. I also saw few Canucks fans demand 3 firsts in a JT Miller trade. I also saw in another deal Rangers trade Adam Fox plus for JT Miller.


I’m garbage slinging? Had 2 Canucks fans tell me why shouldn’t they expect that

Don’t get me started on being told someone proposing K’Andre Miller for Podz was not close in equal value. It would’ve made more sense to point out it makes no sense for both sides considering Canucks want RHD and Rangers want a Centre

 

[Overrateprospects]

The only deals I have seen for Braden and Kravstov have included Boeser, if there have been any with Rathbone as the centrepiece than yes that is ridiculous from our end, I also couldn't agree more, we don't make good trading partners.

Once again Boeser is a good player but makes no sense. Rangers could’ve kept Buchnevich instead. Any deal Rangers would make is young player for young player or a cheap rental that fills 3rd line and possibly can step into 2nd line at times.

 

[Overrateprospects]

Sold cheap? Tbay got a 1st when they were up against the wall. Wouldn’t say that was cheap….

Fit or not, do you have any evidence that he’s a chemistry killer? I would suggest he’s a heart and soul player that every team would be lucky to have.

He got traded for a 2nd and Vlad in one deal with Rangers having cap space and Tampa traded him instead of trading Johnson,Killorn,Palat etc. seems weird how Stevie Y requested he be put in the deal knowing cap situation and year later changed his mind.


Canucks had that article back in November talk about leadership divide involving JT Miller and Horvat. Rangers and Tampa sold him cheaply when they could’ve gotten more for him.It also doesn’t make sense why Canucks would trade him when every Canuck fan raves about him being one of the best players in the league. Why not extend him this coming July especially with his leadership ability he can usher in the new Canucks era.
All I know is AV and Jon Cooper put him on the 4th line at times which says a lot about him. Things may have changed since he went to Vancouver but to have 2 different coaches do that to him for a guy who was expected to be on top line speaks volumes.

 

[StreetHawk]

It’s the upcoming contract that is the main sticking point moving forward.

if he was a couple of years younger it wouldn’t be as much of an issue but he will be 30 when his deal expires in 2023. Guys in his position will ask for maximum term. He would have made close to $35 mill by the time his deal is over.

he would easily exceed $40 mill on his next deal and push close to $50 mill. But again he will begin that new deal at age 30.

so does he fit the Canucks window. That’s the biggest question JR has to decide.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Once again Boeser is a good player but makes no sense. Rangers could’ve kept Buchnevich instead. Any deal Rangers would make is young player for young player or a cheap rental that fills 3rd line and possibly can step into 2nd line at times.

I agree and don't think there is any chance the Rangers would trade for him. I'm not advocating for the trade, simply saying that the proposals I have seen have had players like that, not proposals centred around Rathbone as you stated.

 

[jackjohnson]

Tampa would be such a fantastic fit for Miller.

The problem is their 1st round picks isnt really that valuable as it will be a late one and they dont really have many top end prospects in their system as they have been picking during the later part of the rounds the last few years.

Stamkos
Kucherov
Point
Cirelli
Palat
Killorn
Miller

That would be incredibly ridiculous to deal with in the playoffs.

Then you have Hedman and Vasi

Keep dreaming, Tampa didnt even have cap space to retain their RFAs and UFAs lastoff season, how will they even magically fit Miller assuming they magically got him for a bag of pucks lol
Canucks could trade Miller to you guys for Cernak in return. Would be fair deal with matching cap hits. It would fix Canucks hole on D, needing a defensive RHD while Tampa gets Miller.

 

[violaswallet]

The Canucks ought to hold out for an absolute homerun of a deal. Rutherford is in no rush to trade him at this deadline. He still has the off-season or next year's deadline if he needs to holdout. And re-signing him hasn't been ruled out either.

If they do engage in discussions they ought to target teams like Carolina or Florida who may still want to load up in case they need to go through Tampa and who are peaking at a time when they can fully take advantage of Miller's low AAV.

In either scenario—If I'm Vancouver, I'm asking for Necas from Carolina or Lundell from Florida.

Lol why would Florida trade one of the top defensive players in the league this season with a .6 point per game average as a rookie when we already have enough forward depth? We don’t need more scoring: we need defensemen lol

I’m glad that you appreciated his performance agai

 

[jackjohnson]

He got traded for a 2nd and Vlad in one deal with Rangers having cap space and Tampa traded him instead of trading Johnson,Killorn,Palat etc. seems weird how Stevie Y requested he be put in the deal knowing cap situation and year later changed his mind.


Canucks had that article back in November talk about leadership divide involving JT Miller and Horvat. Rangers and Tampa sold him cheaply when they could’ve gotten more for him.It also doesn’t make sense why Canucks would trade him when every Canuck fan raves about him being one of the best players in the league. Why not extend him this coming July especially with his leadership ability he can usher in the new Canucks era.
All I know is AV and Jon Cooper put him on the 4th line at times which says a lot about him. Things may have changed since he went to Vancouver but to have 2 different coaches do that to him for a guy who was expected to be on top line speaks volumes.

Jon Cooper's team had a lot of depth where Verheage and Miller were forced to play 4th line. AV is a dumb coach and he also had Burrows and Kesler playing 3rd or 4th line before they broke out. It speaks volumes of what happens when you give a player like Miller top line minutes, nothinv regarding his character unless you are implying Cooper and AV are bad coaches lol.

 

[jackjohnson]

The Canucks simply will not be getting either of those players, full stop. And this is coming from a Vancouverite.

Yeah and Canucks wont trade their 28 year old top line forward for a bag of pucks, full stop. What makes you think JR is dreading to trade Miller right away? a 5 million dollar top line forward with a year left that can PK, PP, play center and wing and put up 70 to 80 points. They dont grow on trees so his trade value is pretty high.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Doubt Canucks would be interested in picks given the age of the group of the roster— it would take 3 years for that player to be a reliable contributor. Likely would be for a young NHL player or NHL ready ready prospect if it did happen. Pretty sure JR said as much in one of his many interviews since taking the job.

You can always trade picks for that player. And yes Vancouver wants picks. JR said it plain as day.

 

[jackjohnson]

You can always trade picks for that player. And yes Vancouver wants picks. JR said it plain as day.

JR said they dont plan on trading picks like candy, didnt say they will trade their best players for picks. That would be dumb if they did, unless they want a rebuild. It takes like 3 to 4 years minimum for that pick to make the NHL and that is if they got everything right.