CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[JimAnchower]

I think we have our answer within two weeks. It is going to the Suns new owner and asking if they would like a partner in building a new arena in downtown Phoenix. If the answer is no (or was already no) then the team gets moved (and probably sold).

The possibility of a lame duck season at ASU exists because of the tight timeframe, but I think if the team leaves everyone will want to get it down as soon as possible for next year. Thus why I think we hear in 2 week.

Suns arena just underwent a $230 million renovation.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Can't a Québec team play a year or two in the Central, until Atlanta/Houston/SLC joins?

I see some journos and fans stating that the east coast thing means Québec can't be a relo option here, but I don't see it that way.

I think they can. Some people on here are acting like the teams will have to travel by bus to Quebec City. I know, I know, tv start times. Not buying it. Can also set a deal where Quebec has their home games against Central teams at either 7:30 or 8pm, while when on the road they start at 7pm local time. Even so, it is not THAT many games that would be impacted as they only play division teams 4 times. Basically, 14 games per year for Quebec and 2 games per year for everyone else.

 

[GKJ]

I wouldn’t even say they’re being teased, sounds like they knew this was the plan.

 

[Headshot77]

I think it's really telling that for years, and I mean YEARS, the Coyotes were in Glendale and openly pined to move to Tempe. "All of our fans are in the east valley!!!". If the Coyotes had done anything to actually garner more fan support maybe the east valley wouldn't have collectively said "go f*** yourself"

In the end I guess the Coyotes' reputation preceded them, and they had too many enemies (the airport, the city of Phoenix, the Suns, labor unions that didn't get construction contracts, and of course, NIMBYs). Still I'm ASTOUNDED that this no vote happened. Meruelo and co should have done more to rile up the troops and advertise their campaign of course but holy shit the sheer apathy from Tempe that this vote signifies is really telling.

 

[Dynamite Kid]

If they decide to relocate out east it will screw up their divisions. I could see them expanding two more teams after and do a whole new shuffle of divisions and conferences with 34 teams.

Winnipeg played in the east after relocation until things were balanced. It could happen again and be part of the relocation agreement. I'm not sure why everyone is so bent on alignment. Also, the CBA is ready to expire and certain agreements may change. We could see a realignment and a new playoff structure. Even expansion. More teams equals more jobs.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I wouldn’t even say they’re being teased, sounds like they knew this was the plan.

No doubt...15 hours after the poll results and there's already relocation focus? If true, this was always "plan B".

 

[Fidel Astro]

Can't a Québec team play a year or two in the Central, until Atlanta/Houston/SLC joins?

I see some journos and fans stating that the east coast thing means Québec can't be a relo option here, but I don't see it that way.

Jets played in the Southeast Division when we got a team again. Made no sense geographically and made for some weird start times from a Winnipeg perspective, but who cares? It worked itself out.

I see no reason why the Nordiques 2.0 shouldn't be at the top of the list other than the league obsessing over U.S. dollars and some mythical TV deal.

 

[TheLegend]

So is literally everyone who has bought a sports team in the past 20 years. Steve Ballmer is worth tens of billions more than Meruelo and when major things like the Clippers Arena are happening he's there Dan Gilbert is worth like $20 billion and we saw him everywhere in Cleveland before his stroke. I love how you think this franchise is a unique little snowflake and the same rules don't apply to you that apply to everyone else. They didn't pay their tax bills because they moved offices and the mail didn't get forwarded, the owner is busy so he can't show up to do the bare minimum pr, our city has too many fun things to do so our fans won't show up unless they win consistently, etc.

First.... cut the crap about lecturing me in how I think. I gave you an insight of how Meruelo works based upon everything I know about him since he first bought the franchise. Some of it coming directly from his own comments you've probably never heard.

Yes.... Meruelo is a billionaire. And Ballmer is a MEGA billionaire with a lot of time on his hands. They are two different individuals who distinctly have their own way of doing things. They ONLY thing they have in common is they're rich.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Does the Jazz owner have any plans on building new arena for Jazz and Coyotes if they moved to Utah?

 

[MeHateHe]

No, but it does seem to be a pattern. Fans aren't always logical in how they treat others.

I'm in favour of being better today than others were yesterday.

 

[GKJ]

No doubt...15 hours after the poll results and there's already relocation focus? If true, this was always "plan B".

Stop calling it Plan B! We're at like Plan P or V or something. Plan U for Utah.

 

[RogerRoger]

Jets played in the Southeast Division when we got a team again. Made no sense geographically and made for some weird start times from a Winnipeg perspective, but who cares? It worked itself out.

I see no reason why the Nordiques 2.0 shouldn't be at the top of the list other than the league obsessing over U.S. dollars and some mythical TV deal.

I was wishing you guys won the division that year. Seeing Winnipeg having a "Southeast Division Champ" banner in the rafter would have been comical.

 

[Fidel Astro]

I, for one, am very interested in seeing whether Coyotes fans put together some sort of large groundswell of support to keep the team in AZ -- along the lines of the "Save the Jets" rally we had here in Winnipeg in the mid-90s.

I keep seeing people suggesting we (as in everyone who isn't a Yotes fan) should have sympathy if the team relocates, but I have yet to see any indication that there's any sort of large-scale support for the team down there. They've had countless opportunities to show that they, as a community, give a damn about the team and... crickets. Every time.

A few people showing up in jerseys at council meetings over the years isn't really a good indication.

I was wishing you guys won the division that year. Seeing Winnipeg having a "Southeast Division Champ" banner in the rafter would have been comical.

Me too. It would've been hilarious.

 

[JimAnchower]

Does the Jazz owner have any plans on building new arena for Jazz and Coyotes if they moved to Utah?

Nothing really rumored yet, but SLC is bidding for 2030/2034 Winter Olympics. Delta Center, going back to that name on July 1, is over 30 years old. Any talks will accelerate if they get the Coyotes.

 

[cbcwpg]

Ryan Kennedy of The Hockey News

“There are several reasons why Salt Lake City would be a great fit in a less-than-ideal situation, the first of which being that the Coyotes could move there right away and start play in a full-sized pro arena for 2023-24. Vivint Arena is the home of the NBA’s Utah Jazz and both the building and the basketball team are owned by local billionaire businessman Ryan Smith. As recently as a couple of weeks ago, Smith hinted that plans to bring a hockey team to Utah were “in motion” and he has reportedly met with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman in the past.”

 

[mikelvl]

The Mormons are getting a team before the Nordiques. It's all about U.S. TV markets. Next up, Atlanta 3.0 will be the Eastern expansion team instead of Quebec 2.0.

Sad sad days for hockey, not right at all.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

The Salt Lake Hockey Club of Latter Day Saints inbound

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Stop calling it Plan B! We're at like Plan P or V or something. Plan U for Utah.

LOL...I mean "Plan B" as in next step after the vote. However, sounds like it WAS named Plan U internally.

 

[KevFu]

One thing I have always wondered is why municipalities can't work together. Why can't Tempe and Phoenix (or whatever Counties and Townships are involved) work out a deal to split the cost but also split the revenue that would be generated?

This has always kind of been my thing, too.

Like, Philly has a massive space that's all Stadiums/Arenas or Parking Lots; Need new ones? Build a new one in the parking lot, level the old one for parking. RFK, Veterans Stadium, Spectrum ---> LFF, CBP, WFA. Lather, rinse repeat.

Phoenix doesn't have that luxury for space reasons; but unless that one place for all teams is perfectly located, it's better to have the teams in different municipalities in the metro area anyway!

The ideal situation is you find plots of land that could fit an NFL stadium/parking in 4 or 5 different municipalities around the metro area: Downtown PHX, Tempe, Scotsdale/Tribal Land, Glendale.

If the Suns/Coyotes have the same owner, then you need 4 instead of 5.

But just set a rotation that everyone agrees to, where all our teams are taken care of, all our teams will take turns being in our neighborhood, and all of us will share the costs.

NBA/NHL arenas are the cheapest, NFL and MLB stadiums the most expensive. Instead of fighting and bickering, you're basically paying 75% or 80% of the average cost at all times, and having one of those teams 75% or 80% of the time at all times. But no drama, no fighting.

We got the Coyotes/Suns now, Cards are next, then the DBacks.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The Mormons are getting a team before the Nordiques. It's all about U.S. TV markets. Next up, Atlanta 3.0 will be the Eastern expansion team instead of Quebec 2.0.

Sad sad days for hockey, not right at all.

You mean Quebec 3.0. Again, if you're including the Atlanta Flames, then you need to include the Quebec Bulldogs.

 

[Headshot77]

The other element of the sale price for the Coyotes is that for appearances sake, it's going to be MUCH higher than people think for one reason: debt. They've accumulated hundreds of millions of dollars in debt that needs to be dealt with and it's a great way to prop up the sale price.

As far as we know, when Meruelo bought the team, a large part of that $300m price was actually paying off all the debt the franchise accrued. I'd be willing to believe that the Yotes now have close to zero debt and Meruelo actually only paid like $150m for the asset and $150m to close all the debts.

 

[shenmue16]

Just in response to a post in the previous thread from GKJ:
I am not saying Bettman had anything to do with this, I highly doubt he wanted Arizona to leave when he has always been their most enthusiastic supporter, to the extent he actually had the league owning the team (which I don't recall ever happening before or since). I think this most likely was something happening within the Coyotes ownership group. As for a specific time this started being the strategy? It's hard to say. I'm inclined to believe they stopped being a competitive team under Armstrong. I would say the sale to Meruelo and the pandemic is what put the Yotes on the fast-track to relocation. My hunch (and this is not an accusation or insinuation with any knowledge besides what is publicly available) is that they wanted to make a legitimate attempt at having the team stay in Arizona because it was the only way Bettman would give them approval to move the team. I think Barroway was serious in his attempt to keep the team somewhat competitive and he believed in the Coyotes, however the debt that organization was dealing with (from previous ownership groups) was too overwhelming, and he ended up selling to Meruelo. Meruelo taken that organization and oddly enough posted record breaking profit. Slashing player wages and operating costs allowed the Coyotes to stay afloat for a few more years, but it has been clear to ownership for a few years that they have no future in the state of Arizona.

 

[KevFu]

I think they can. Some people on here are acting like the teams will have to travel by bus to Quebec City. I know, I know, tv start times. Not buying it. Can also set a deal where Quebec has their home games against Central teams at either 7:30 or 8pm, while when on the road they start at 7pm local time. Even so, it is not THAT many games that would be impacted as they only play division teams 4 times. Basically, 14 games per year for Quebec and 2 games per year for everyone else.

Agreed. The other aspect of it is that travel is dictated by order of games anyway....

The league doesn't schedule teams in blocks:
at ARZ-DAL-NASH, home vs ANA, LA, SJ, VGK
at WIN-WIN-CHI-STL, home vs NYR, NYI, NJD, PHI
at MON-OTT-BOS-PIT, home vs TOR, BUF, DET, CBJ

That being said (a), maybe they should. I was kinda surprised after the 2020-21 season that the league wasn't like "This two-game series thing really, really works!"

 

[tucker3434]

Houston makes the most sense to me. But if it was SLC now, that allows some time for Houston and Atlanta to come in as a pair in expansion. If Houston were to get a team now, I'd be a bit concerned about whether they'd pursue further expansion.

 

[TheLegend]

It's not exactly what happened. Quebecor always said officially they were not looking for other investors. However, other investors, through the media, claimed they would be interested in investing.

However, after they submitted their bid and before the results were announced by the league, Quebecor claimed that fans shouldn't expect a team through an expansion but should hope for a relocation and that fans should have to wait many years before it happens (but it seemed hopeful that it would happen). They also said that it should cost a lot less through a relocation.

https://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hock...-de-la-lnh-quebec-ce-nest-pas-pour-demain.php

What happened exactly behind the doors? My guess is the league told them a relocation is the only for Quebec. And perhaps a promise that they would be given a chance if a relocation happens.

Hmm....

Quebecor wants partners in NHL team bid

www.sportsnet.ca

The media and telecom company said Thursday it has opened talks with some sponsors and signed contracts but has yet to secure another investor willing to help foot the US$500 bill it costs to launch an NHL expansion franchise.

“Submitting this application is one more step towards our ultimate objective of making sports an additional growth segment,” president and CEO Pierre Dion told analysts on a conference call after the company posted its latest financial results.

“We will soon be approaching potential partners, which we believe will attract high interest levels.”

This was pretty open I'd say.

There in lies their failure.

- Bill Foley had all his ducks in a row when he applied. He even had a stake in the arena.

- Oak View Group in Seattle had all of theirs as well. And spent $970 million building what's essentially a brand new arena underneath a 60 year old roof.

Quebecor convinced the city and province to build them an arena and it would bring the Nordiques back.... No problem. Except they weren't ready, and they couldn't find any investors to come in.

Don't take this as me slamming QC. That's a passionate as hell fanbase up there, and I would have loved to see the Nordiques back in the league. My disdain is aimed at Quebecor (PKP in particular) for misleading those fans.