CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa
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Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Houston Spacemen. Pronounced spa-CHEM-en
There is no way they play a lame duck season at the college rink, the players don't even want to be there. They will be in Houston or Quebec as soon as the Stanley Cup Playoffs are finished.
I wonder if Meruelo had any idea where the vote would swing? Their shop sounds genuinely surprised and even shocked it failed, but to a neutral observer it felt like the cards were stacked against them a bit and that's not even related to the Coyotes.
These kinds of projects always sound good to sports fans talking about it on a sports forum, but the general public, over and over again, absolutely loathes any kind of sports spending and it takes a mountain of effort to convince them otherwise. It almost hardly matters how good the deal is, if they're worried about roads, infrastructure, taxes, health care etc. they do not want to see a nickel go to stadium projects.
These kinds of projects always sound good to sports fans talking about it on a sports forum, but the general public, over and over again, absolutely loathes any kind of sports spending and it takes a mountain of effort to convince them otherwise. It almost hardly matters how good the deal is, if they're worried about roads, infrastructure, taxes, health care etc. they do not want to see a nickel go to stadium projects.
powerstuck
Nordiques Hopes Lies
I still want to see proof that Coyotes presence (top10 us tv market) or the addition of Vegas and Seattle made the US TV contract more lucrative.
If anything cable cutting makes it harder and harder for networks to capitalize on their NHL investments that it’s hard to see how putting a team in any city makes the contract has more value.
JohnLennon
Registered User
- Mar 26, 2011
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I will get on board with any relocation options even though I would love for this team to work in Arizona, but I have to ask since I am behind on this topic - why is Atlanta popping up so much? They've had two kicks at the can, haven't they?Sean Gentille and Pierre LeBrun from The Athletic with a quick post mortem.
They put Atlanta and Houston as the leading relo candidates.
Tempe voters reject plan for new Coyotes arena: Will team relocate?
The NHL will "review with the Coyotes what the options might be going forward."theathletic.com
Troy McClure
Should’ve drafted Makar
When looking at homes the NHL would like, always google media market. This is why Bettman has been so insistent on keeping Phoenix alive. They're the #11 media market in the US. He doesn't want to lose that reach.
Atlanta is 6th
Houston is 7th
Portland is 22nd
Salt Lake City is 29th
Kansas City is 33rd
Atlanta is 6th
Houston is 7th
Portland is 22nd
Salt Lake City is 29th
Kansas City is 33rd
It would need to be either the Houston
a) the Houston Aeros, paying homage to Gordie Howe's WHA champion Aeros from the 1970s, OR
b) the Houston Apollos, paying homage to a minor league team of that name from the 60s and 70s.
Both names would pay homage to the NASA HQ in Houston, and be consistent with other Houston pro teams with space themed names (Astros, Rockets, Comets, etc).
It would need to be either:
a) the Houston Aeros, paying homage to Gordie Howe's WHA champion Aeros from the 1970s, OR
b) the Houston Apollos, paying homage to a minor league team of that name from the 60s and 70s.
Both names would pay homage to the NASA HQ in Houston, and be consistent with other Houston pro teams with space themed names (Astros, Rockets, Comets, etc).
oldunclehue
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2010
- 1,261
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The campaign to vote NO had way more fuel then yes. Tempe has what, 150,000 taxpayers. You see a potential $250 million clean up cost (even in bonds) is still a big number for a city with that tax base. Plus given the Glendale history, I don't blame taxpayers from being very very gun shy on this deal.
The rich know how to stay rich....and its not by putting their money up with tons of risk. The voters likely saw this and voted it down.
Us hockey fans see it as a great deal....them, no so much.
I think we have our answer within two weeks. It is going to the Suns new owner and asking if they would like a partner in building a new arena in downtown Phoenix. If the answer is no (or was already no) then the team gets moved (and probably sold).
The possibility of a lame duck season at ASU exists because of the tight timeframe, but I think if the team leaves everyone will want to get it down as soon as possible for next year. Thus why I think we hear in 2 week.
MMC
Global Moderator
Wonder why he was so quiet this whole time. He probably can sell and bounce with 700 million for doing nothing.
Troy McClure
Should’ve drafted Makar
Disagree. They need to call back to the city's favorite past team and be the Houston Oilers.
objectiveposter
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2011
- 2,143
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The Ottawa senators are going to be sold for over 1 billion. The price tag for an expansion team, especially in a larger market could easily hit 1 billion. You need to find a very ambitious owner who would be willing to fork over that type of money...its easier said than done. Right now every city that has been mentioned has issues... from arenas, to location (eastern time zone), to ownership and financing...there is no market that stands out. If someone like Vivec (sacramento kings owner) happened to own the houston rockets and the arena it would be an obvious choice to move them to houston....but the current houston owner is more frugal and borrowing a billion dollars at these interest rates means the team will likely be losing money.
The fact that Bettman did not include the "we remain commited to the arizona market" is a huge red flag. In every other case he has always used that language...not just in arizona but all other markets as well.
sneakytitz
Registered User
If the Coyotes are sold I can't see Atlanta landing them.
1) There is still A LOT of paperwork and analysis and approvals needed before they can start building the new arena in Forsyth. Everything looks/sounds promising at this point but there is still a tremendous amount of work left, including a few years to build the damn thing.
2) We don't even know if Krause et al have the money on hand to buy a team AND finance the construction of The Gathering and then sitting on/servicing that debt for for 2, 3, maybe 4 years without any revenue generation.
3) Assuming they do have the money on hand to buy right now and get the greenlight to move forward with The Gathering, where the hell do you even put them for the time being? Gwinnett? Glads just signed a multi-year lease with Gas South, do they just get pushed to the side? Take what's leftover from the schedule after the NHL?
I think the Atlanta group's goal has always been getting an expansion franchise; their presentation to the county used that word: expansion. Expansion works better for their timeline.
I can only see Atlanta being REMOTELY possible if the sale process doesn't begin for another year, preferably two.
1) There is still A LOT of paperwork and analysis and approvals needed before they can start building the new arena in Forsyth. Everything looks/sounds promising at this point but there is still a tremendous amount of work left, including a few years to build the damn thing.
2) We don't even know if Krause et al have the money on hand to buy a team AND finance the construction of The Gathering and then sitting on/servicing that debt for for 2, 3, maybe 4 years without any revenue generation.
3) Assuming they do have the money on hand to buy right now and get the greenlight to move forward with The Gathering, where the hell do you even put them for the time being? Gwinnett? Glads just signed a multi-year lease with Gas South, do they just get pushed to the side? Take what's leftover from the schedule after the NHL?
I think the Atlanta group's goal has always been getting an expansion franchise; their presentation to the county used that word: expansion. Expansion works better for their timeline.
I can only see Atlanta being REMOTELY possible if the sale process doesn't begin for another year, preferably two.
When Bettman took over in the early 90s, his first order of business was to get a national tv deal. NBA had TBS, TNT. They had CBS then NBC for weekend games during the regular season and play-off games. The rhetoric from the OTA networks was the NHL did not have a presence in enough of the markets for their affiliates to want the games. From St Louis/Dallas out to LA was empty as was most of the southeast US. Hence, expansion to Florida, Quebec--> Colorado, Hartford---> Carolina, expansion to Nashville and Atlanta, and of course Winnipeg---> Phoenix. Before these moves started, they had a deal with ABC (I think for a year) then Fox, but it was very limited. I think the first few years of Fox, it was 3 weekends after the Super Bowl and then 3 weekends at end of season and weekend play-off games. Whether the moves worked for the tv deal, I don't know.
paul-laus
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2007
- 506
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I can’t believe that I got locked in to reading this whole post just based on the “hear me out” line.
The NHL will never ever fold another franchise. Again, they will have done their due diligence in regards to different plans and options should this scenario have panned out the way that it has….Salt Lake City if they win the Olympic bidding again, which many believe they will, are going to need to build a new arena anyway. Three or four years in a 14,000 seat arena with an eventual newer building for both the jazz and an NHL team plus part of an Olympic bid does make some sense…
Atlanta is a big market, and the last chance was a decade of poor hockey followed by a sale with no arena attached. 90% of NHL franchises would fail under those circumstances. Having a place to play is a really big deal.
I am guessing they probably had a sense if he actually opted to come out of the witness protection program in the past couple of weeks...
It's jobs neutral - what's lost in folding Arizona are added with the creation of an expansion team.
MeHateHe
Registered User
- Dec 24, 2006
- 2,784
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For the record, I hope those of us from outside Phoenix can have a little empathy for the core Coyote fanbase who are looking at the real possibility of losing their hockey team. It would suck a lot and I'd like to think we can spare a kind thought for those folks.
This is bad all around, for the record. A major market has essentially rejected our sport. Yes, there are good fans there. Yes, they've had terrible owners and terrible teams and mismanaged politics, but at the end of the day, the city hasn't figured out a way to make it viable for a team to be in place, after more than a quarter century of actually being there. None of that is on the fans - the actual fans - but that's the stark reality.
So, I understand the reaction of those who are seeing this tragicomedy limp to a conclusion, but it would profoundly suck to have this happen to my team.
This is bad all around, for the record. A major market has essentially rejected our sport. Yes, there are good fans there. Yes, they've had terrible owners and terrible teams and mismanaged politics, but at the end of the day, the city hasn't figured out a way to make it viable for a team to be in place, after more than a quarter century of actually being there. None of that is on the fans - the actual fans - but that's the stark reality.
So, I understand the reaction of those who are seeing this tragicomedy limp to a conclusion, but it would profoundly suck to have this happen to my team.
MMC
Global Moderator
TheLegend
Hangman's booking agent... he'll do anything.
Meruelo has more than just the Coyotes ya know. If I learned anything about Alex Meruelo the biggest one is he keeps a constant hand on all of his businesses. That requires him to be everywhere and so he has to rely on a small number of people he can trust.
When Meruelo bought the franchise, Ahron Cohen was the team attorney Barroway had kicked up to CEO and initiated the talks with Tempe. But he didn't have enough experience or clout to be a deal closer and Meruelo likes to have someone he's more familiar with. So Gutierrez was brought in specifically to hammer out this proposal. Gutierrez has done multiple billon plus dollar deals like this. AND he did a real good job with this one.
Where things went wrong (and I'm getting this from a couple of people who are well plugged into the political landscape here), they grossly underestimated the reach a couple of key people in the No group had with the locals. They got out early, and got THEIR message embedded into the most likely voters. Even with most of their message was highly exaggerated and in some cases an outright lie.... it didn't matter. They got to the voter first.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Would the Coyotes just hang onto their name if they went to SLC or would they change it for a fresh start?
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