CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[jkrdevil]

So unless I am missing something there would be six likely candidates for relocation if that is the route we are headed down:

1. Houston - Everything would already be in place and the Rockets owner has previously expressed interest, but he balked at the price.

2. Salt Lake City - Everything would already be in place and the Jazz owner has recently expressed interest, but there are questions about the market supporting both NHL and NBA teams

3. Sacramento - Everything would already be in place and the Kings owner has recently expressed interest, but there are questions about the market supporting both NHL and NBA teams. Also have to worry about poaching some fans from the San Jose market as they are relatively close.

4. Kansas City - Have an arena but no one has made any real effort to be an NHL owner in that market

5. Atlanta - Would need both an ownership group and an arena plan, but there has been some recent rumors that there are willing owners with an arena plan waiting on the opportunity. Would likely have to play in an ECHL arena in Duluth until a new arena could be built.

6. Quebec City - Have both an arena and a willing owner, but questions about the market long-term viability. Expressed interest in expansion but balked at the price.

A couple of things. The team doesn’t necessarily have to be sold to move. If Meruelo still wants to own the team that opens up option where there may be a building but not ownership group, like KC.

Now a couple of places, like Houston, would require the team to be sold (at least over time).

Re: Salt Lake City right now there really isn’t a suitable NHL building. The Jazz arena is problematic, so a new one would need to be built soon. If sold to the Jazz owner were to buy the team it would probably strengthen ability to get an arena deal done, but it would be a rough interim.

 

[Fenway]

Looking at the options

Would Glendale take them back?

The old Suns arena?

Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Working out a deal with the NBA Suns?

The Utah Jazz owner is looking at a Winter Olympics bid in 2030 where a new arena would most likely be needed.

Should the IOC ‘grab Salt Lake City while it can’ for the 2030 Winter Games?

It’s time for the IOC to name Salt Lake City the 2030 Winter Games host. Utah’s bid may be the IOC’s only option and should not be taken for granted, a longtime Olympic communications expert says.

www.deseret.com

The primary issue is the Coyotes can not stay at ASU forever.

 

[Mike Jones]

I don't see any way to make a dispersal draft work with team's existing cap payrolls without saying those players don't count against the cap... and then you're in a situation where the players owe the owners a bunch of money to make the 50/50 split work right. Meanwhile those same owners are pocketing the expansion fees that don't go towards HRR. Sure, some of the incoming salary is offset by whoever is lost in the expansion draft... but it's really not a workable path.

Too bad but you're right - they'd almost have to find a way to have the expansion draft before the dispersal draft. Unless the league opens a cap window that allows the dispersal/expansion process to happen in its proper order.

But there's also the buyout window that would help teams clear space for the dispersal draft.

 

[TheLegend]

IIRC, the QC expansion bid was $150m less than the Vegas bid.

$500 million (Vegas) versus $650 million (Seattle).

An expansion fee today would be in the $750-850 million range.

 

[Tawnos]

When I saw the meager effort from the Coyotes owners to get this passed (spending under $250k on the yes campaign), I think there are only two possible reasons:

1) Coyotes owners don't have the money to put forward a serious campaign, which means this whole project was going to go up in flames even if this passed if they're that strapped for cash; or

2) Coyotes owners were trying to tank the thing because relocation was always the goal -- but they had to go through this charade of pretending to chase a failed development boondoggle to get Bettman to relent on relocation.

I wouldn't trust too hard in any of the numbers you're reading right now about how much the team spent. There was another article today saying the team outspent the opposition $1.2m to $35k. I don't think anyone really knows.

 

[jkrdevil]

IIRC, the QC expansion bid was $150m less than the Vegas bid.



For 5 and 6, I'd mention the east coast issue

Atlanta is close enough to central time zone that it could stay in the central division. It would make playoff scheduling a headache though.

Atlanta has a where would they play and what happens if that arena plan falls though problem though.

 

[Fenway]

NHL Videos - Highlights and Analysis from the National Hockey League

Watch highlights and analysis video from the National Hockey League. TSN's NHL Insiders and analysts deliver video content, betting information, and fantasy hockey advice.

www.tsn.ca

 

[uhlaw97]

Just bring the team to Houston, re-create the Houston Aeros of WHA Gordie Howe fame, and call it a day.

Tillman Fertitta didn't end up buying the Washington Commanders, so he undoubtedly has some cash available.

And of course, he has an arena that is 18K seat and NHL ready!

As for Quebec, it's a much smaller market, and as for Atlanta..........the NHL has already failed there.

 

[Tawnos]

Atlanta is close enough to central time zone that it could stay in the central division. It would make playoff scheduling a headache though.

Atlanta has a where would they play and what happens if that arena plan falls though problem though.

It doesn't matter how close they are. It's about the timing of TV broadcasts.

 

[PredsHead]

For 5 and 6, I'd mention the east coast issue

I would tend to agree with that, especially for Quebec City. Adding another team in Canada doesn't do much for a new TV deal if that new team is almost always on at the same time as Montreal and Toronto. If Atlanta were to include some prominent minority and/or celebrity ownership, I could see the league being ok with another team on the East Coast. From the bidding process in Ottawa that is clearly something the league is interested in.

 

[MeHateHe]

One thing the league could do is fold Arizona and approve an expansion team somewhere else.

Hear me out: The league's teams could hold a dispersal draft that would include Arizona's players, acquired picks, drafted players' rights, etc. That could add up to 2 assets per organization.

The league's teams could then split the expansion fees from the new franchise.

The dispersal and expansion drafts can happen the same week as the entry draft.

Win/win.

Aside from the logistical challenges - putting together a dispersal draft with teams having to submit protected lists - and all of this coming after you find an expansion sucker I MEAN PARTNER - this is a good way of ensuring whoever takes over for the Coyotes has something other than the dog of a lineup currently wearing the Kachina.

I mean, it's never going to happen, but maybe if they had a few more months to play with...

 

[powerstuck]

So unless I am missing something there would be six likely candidates for relocation if that is the route we are headed down:

1. Houston - Everything would already be in place and the Rockets owner has previously expressed interest, but he balked at the price.

2. Salt Lake City - Everything would already be in place and the Jazz owner has recently expressed interest, but there are questions about the market supporting both NHL and NBA teams

3. Sacramento - Everything would already be in place and the Kings owner has recently expressed interest, but there are questions about the market supporting both NHL and NBA teams. Also have to worry about poaching some fans from the San Jose market as they are relatively close.

4. Kansas City - Have an arena but no one has made any real effort to be an NHL owner in that market

5. Atlanta - Would need both an ownership group and an arena plan, but there has been some recent rumors that there are willing owners with an arena plan waiting on the opportunity. Would likely have to play in an ECHL arena in Duluth until a new arena could be built.

6. Quebec City - Have both an arena and a willing owner, but questions about the market long-term viability. Expressed interest in expansion but balked at the price.

There is one commont point about some of the markets and that’s the longterm viability or ability to support two major sports (nhl/nba).

But is that really and argument if given we’re 27 years into Coyotes existence in Arizona and they never had sufficient fan support or stability.

 

[jkrdevil]

It doesn't matter how close they are. It's about the timing of TV broadcasts.

As I said it makes playoff scheduling a headache. But given the situation, that maybe something league has to deal with and make work down the line vs. finding a home for the team.

Atlanta is still a long shot because of other factors.

 

[TheLegend]

Sean Gentille and Pierre LeBrun from The Athletic with a quick post mortem.

They put Atlanta and Houston as the leading relo candidates.

Tempe voters reject plan for new Coyotes arena: Will team relocate?

The NHL will "review with the Coyotes what the options might be going forward."

theathletic.com

 

[PredsHead]

A couple of things. The team doesn’t necessarily have to be sold to move. If Meruelo still wants to own the team that opens up option where there may be a building but not ownership group, like KC.

Now a couple of places, like Houston, would require the team to be sold (at least over time).

Re: Salt Lake City right now there really isn’t a suitable NHL building. The Jazz arena is problematic, so a new one would need to be built soon. If sold to the Jazz owner were to buy the team it would probably strengthen ability to get an arena deal done, but it would be a rough interim.

You are right on SLC, I should have included that they would need a new building quickly.

As for Meruelo, I would be very surprised if the league would want him to stay on as an owner. Not sure they can directly force him out, but they could make the relocation fee so high and approval so difficult that Meruelo would effectively be forced to sell on their terms.

 

[Masked]

One thing the league could do is fold Arizona and approve an expansion team somewhere else.

Hear me out: The league's teams could hold a dispersal draft that would include Arizona's players, acquired picks, drafted players' rights, etc. That could add up to 2 assets per organization.

The league's teams could then split the expansion fees from the new franchise.

The dispersal and expansion drafts can happen the same week as the entry draft.

Win/win.

That's silly. Folding a franchise would have an enormous impact on franchise values.

And expansion franchises don't start up in a few months. They take a considerable amount of time to develop the front office infrastructure needed to run a hockey team.

Assen na yo!

 

[jkrdevil]

The team isn’t folding. They will play a lame duck season at Mullett if need to.

Folding the teams creates a labor crisis with the PA and there are cities that would take the team.

 

[Apex Predator]

If they decide to relocate out east it will screw up their divisions. I could see them expanding two more teams after and do a whole new shuffle of divisions and conferences with 34 teams.

 

[BattleBorn]

IMO, Seattle’s 650 might have been the high water mark for expansion/relo fees for a while.

Financing has gotten significantly more expensive with interest rates jumping so quickly over the past year.

 

[patnyrnyg]

1. People don't like to share.
2. You need to generate revenue in order to have revenue to share. And this likely would not have done that.

I hear ya, but I also meant in general, not just specifically to this situation.

 

[Troy McClure]

There is one commont point about some of the markets and that’s the longterm viability or ability to support two major sports (nhl/nba).

But is that really and argument if given we’re 27 years into Coyotes existence in Arizona and they never had sufficient fan support or stability.

It also sucks because they never had good ownership or a solid arena to call home the entire time as well.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Is there any other way to spin this but that Meruelo is a fraud who dealt the final blow to the Coyotes? 250K? How the hell did the league allow this to happen?

 

[PredsHead]

There is one commont point about some of the markets and that’s the longterm viability or ability to support two major sports (nhl/nba).

But is that really and argument if given we’re 27 years into Coyotes existence in Arizona and they never had sufficient fan support or stability.

Yes, SLC and Sacramento would definitely bring some worry that the market can support two teams playing at the same time. Are there enough corporate sponsors and businesses to buy the suites and many of the lower bowl tickets for two teams?

 

[aqib]

Everyone the media interviewed who voted against the proposition have said the T-word. The opposition had an easy selling point and they hit it hard and early.

Meruelo and his family were out canvassing in Tempe along with volunteers as late as last week. So you can put that one away.

yeah that's textbook too little too late. We saw Hulsizer, LeBlanc, Jameson, etc at games and meetings trying to sell their deals. Meruelo sends Gutierrez everywhere in his place.

 

[oldunclehue]

For the NHL what do you do? Playing a lame duck season at Mullet without concrete plans to build an arena doesn't seem like a good formula. Also they would now need to start the process over in a whole new part of the Phoenix area....so start from scratch to go through all the planning etc will take years. Then for another referendum or Glendale type situation.

If the org announces plans to move and stay for one last season....it will lose money based on lack on interest.

I think they need to remove the bandaid quick here and get the team to a new city/owner ASAP otherwise they risk the Coyotes being in a worse position then they are right now.

We all know the options....but Bettman rarely lets on as to the plan until the last second.

What could a team name been for a team in Houston>

Houston Aero's, Houston Herd, Houston Havoc, Houston Hounds

What do we think?