CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[Yukon Joe]

QC's only an easier market to predict if you can predict the future CAD-USD exchange rate. That, and the relatively small corporate base in Quebec, killed the team once, and can do so again.

I want the Nordiques back, too, but let's not pretend they're a surefire, untouchable success. If they were, we wouldn't be asking for them back, we'd just have had them all along.

Nordiques 2.0 would be like Jets 2.0 - a profitable, middle-of-the-road franchise. Not going to be at the top of profitability, but not going to be a financial worry for the league.

The problem with Quebec is there is no ownership group with enough $$$ to buy the team.

 

[garbageteam]

I had a blackberry in their dying days before the iPhone came to Verizon. It only took about 5 apps to fill it up and if you wanted to download another, you’d have to delete one. This was at a time when the iPhone had basically no restriction at all.

Yes, too bad we didn’t get to see more of that brilliant thinking in the NHL.

It was hard to compete with the lightning in a bottle brilliance that Jobs captured. The iPhone had zero competitors, and going forwards only had imitators. Look around today at the landscape 16 years later, an eternity in the tech world and no one else had really come and materially improved upon what Apple had built. Microsoft mobile got killed, Nokia, Motorola, LG, HTC all eventually got wrecked, etc. Samsung and Google really only copied the formula and put a twist on it. Ultimately if you've got the money and aren't much of a tech nerd, you're still going to just want to buy the iPhone 14 Pro Max as you would have in 2007 with the original iPhone.

I'm convinced only hubris - the kind of thing that sank Balsillie's bid and would have sunk his definitely short lived ownership team tenure with the NHL - killed BlackBerry. There was no reason why they couldn't just go be a Samsung or Google and release an Android with good buttons in like, 2010, and then eventually be ingrained enough to basically take its place in the current mantle of surviving Android slab phones.

Too big of an ego, well on display with his cavalier approach to the NHL, plagued and sank Balsillie and his company.

 

[oldunclehue]

Back to the grind on the Coyotes....I've read the potential options...anyone else have clarity:

1. Mesa - mall site (public referendum required)
2. Scottsdale - where would work, what hoops to jump through?
3. Indian Land - many many hoops to jump through I assume?
4. Tempe - out due to referendum?
5. Anywhere else local an option?

 

[Slashers98]

Back to the grind on the Coyotes....I've read the potential options...anyone else have clarity:

1. Mesa - mall site (public referendum required)
2. Scottsdale - where would work, what hoops to jump through?
3. Indian Land - many many hoops to jump through I assume?
4. Tempe - out due to referendum?
5. Anywhere else local an option?

Let's say the Coyotes stay in Arizona... how long would it take to approve a new arena deal and to build the new sports complex? I'd say at least four-five years... I don't think the franchise is viable at Mullett Arena with a rebuilding team and no star player wanting to play in Arizona... It just doesn't make much sense financially.

 

[tucker3434]

Let's say the Coyotes stay in Arizona... how long would it take to approve a new arena deal and to build the new sports complex? I'd say at least four-five years... I don't think the franchise is viable at Mullett Arena with a rebuilding team and no star player wanting to play in Arizona... It just doesn't make much sense financially.

This is my question too. Are we back to square one? Just to get to the point of a vote requires so much red tape. Is Mesa going to require preliminary meetings and studies and on and on and on just to get to the point where the people can then still possibly vote it down? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Lt Dan]

Let's say the Coyotes stay in Arizona... how long would it take to approve a new arena deal and to build the new sports complex? I'd say at least four-five years... I don't think the franchise is viable at Mullett Arena with a rebuilding team and no star player wanting to play in Arizona... It just doesn't make much sense financially.

I googled because I remember something from way back when about Staples Center being built in record time

The venue was constructed in a record 18 months and is already setting records. The venue set a new record for naming rights in a $100 million deal with office-supplier Staples and it is the only venue to host two NBA teams and one NHL team.

Staples Center

Facts, figures and photos about the Staples Center

basketball.ballparks.com

So that is absolute best. and that is with super limited government interference because the LA city council still had egg on it's face from the Raiders and to a lesser part the Rams

In theory a city in AZ could be similar with limited red tape assuming the winters aren't too wet. If they theoretically got the winter the LA just got that would add 4 months

 

[Shwan]

This is my question too. Are we back to square one? Just to get to the point of a vote requires so much red tape. Is Mesa going to require preliminary meetings and studies and on and on and on just to get to the point where the people can then still possibly vote it down? That doesn't make sense.

For Fiesta Mall, he has to see if Carvana/Drivetime magnate Ernie Garcia II is even agreeable to sell the plot to him. Ernie's Verde Investments just recently completed an ~8 year quest to unite the fractured parcels from other owners to completely own the area and has submitted initial paperwork with the city to transform it to a resident/shopping district.

Unless Meruelo comes in and offers a huge overpay you're looking at months if not a year of negotiation on that before he can even start with the Mesa City Council.

 

[MNNumbers]

This is my question too. Are we back to square one? Just to get to the point of a vote requires so much red tape. Is Mesa going to require preliminary meetings and studies and on and on and on just to get to the point where the people can then still possibly vote it down? That doesn't make sense.

That's the heart breaking thing. Nothing really makes good sense from here. That's why I feel so bad for the Coyote fans. Those of us who are not emotionally involved can go on about a lot of things. But, it's their team. And, they know that anything that comes up now is a long shot in one way or another. It must be really bad for them.

 

[Lt Dan]

That's the heart breaking thing. Nothing really makes good sense from here. That's why I feel so bad for the Coyote fans. Those of us who are not emotionally involved can go on about a lot of things. But, it's their team. And, they know that anything that comes up now is a long shot in one way or another. It must be really bad for them.

I can somewhat empathize from the NFL and it absolutely sucks . hang in there yotes fans

 

[Slashers98]

I googled because I remember something from way back when about Staples Center being built in record time

Staples Center

Facts, figures and photos about the Staples Center

basketball.ballparks.com

So that is absolute best. and that is with super limited government interference because the LA city council still had egg on it's face from the Raiders and to a lesser part the Rams

In theory a city in AZ could be similar with limited red tape assuming the winters aren't too wet. If they theoretically got the winter the LA just got that would add 4 months

Let's say it takes 24 to 30 months because everything goes according to plan. It would take us to the 2026-27 season if they started construction in 2023... It still three lame-duck seasons!

 

[Yukon Joe]

Back to the grind on the Coyotes....I've read the potential options...anyone else have clarity:

1. Mesa - mall site (public referendum required)
2. Scottsdale - where would work, what hoops to jump through?
3. Indian Land - many many hoops to jump through I assume?
4. Tempe - out due to referendum?
5. Anywhere else local an option?

I hear there's a perfectly fine arena in Glendale...

Let's say it takes 24 to 30 months because everything goes according to plan. It would take us to the 2026-27 season if they started construction in 2023... It still three lame-duck seasons!

I think the Coyotes would be absolutely fine with waiting until 26-27 if they actually got a new arena with good ancillary revenues from it. The franchise has been in limbo for what - 15 years? What's another 3 years at this point.

I think the problem is they can't wait another 3 years and still not be any further ahead then they are now.

 

[Tawnos]

Let's say the Coyotes stay in Arizona... how long would it take to approve a new arena deal and to build the new sports complex? I'd say at least four-five years... I don't think the franchise is viable at Mullett Arena with a rebuilding team and no star player wanting to play in Arizona... It just doesn't make much sense financially.

I’m curious to see what we get from Forbes for this season, but it’s worth mentioning…

Last year Forbes had the team as profitable and IMO Forbes has always undershot operating income. *If* it’s true that their ticket revenue at Mullett is similar to their last year in Glendale… it’s not inconceivable that this situation isn’t the money loser you think it is. I assume things like ad revenue are less, but so are costs since the shoestring budget got even shoestringier this year.

In that scenario, it’s really not an issue for them to play the full lease term plus the option in Mullett.

 

[nhlfan79]

I'd be fascinated to peak into the world where he bought the team, and then the collapse happened.

That pretty much describes perfectly what happened to the Atlanta Flames, actually.

 

[Slashers98]

I’m curious to see what we get from Forbes for this season, but it’s worth mentioning…

Last year Forbes had the team as profitable and IMO Forbes has always undershot operating income. *If* it’s true that their ticket revenue at Mullett is similar to their last year in Glendale… it’s not inconceivable that this situation isn’t the money loser you think it is. I assume things like ad revenue are less, but so are costs since the shoestring budget got even shoestringier this year.

In that scenario, it’s really not an issue for them to play the full lease term plus the option in Mullett.

I'm pretty sure the team's financial value will be at an all-time low, which is why it's a major problem for Gary Bettman. They really need to get rid of this hot potato before it burns his legacy to the ground.

 

[Tawnos]

I'm pretty sure the team's financial value will be at an all-time low, which is why it's a major problem for Gary Bettman. They really need to get rid of this hot potato before it burns his legacy to the ground.

His legacy isn't going to be significantly affected by what happens over the next three years of a 20+ year saga with one franchise.

The franchise values won't tank too much further if there's an arena being built and that scenario is the only way they stick out the whole lease.

 

[Slashers98]

">

Bettman is having a lot of pressure from the owners and the Coyotes are a drag on the salary cap.

 

[Tawnos]

The Coyotes don't have a lot to do with the cap being limited to the $1m bump this year. It's not nothing...

But the owners largely want there to be at least some drag on the salary cap. It makes their profit margins wider.

 

[Roadrage]

How much if anything will playing out of Mullet be on HRR for the next 3-5 years?

 

[Slashers98]

The Coyotes don't have a lot to do with the cap being limited to the $1m bump this year. It's not nothing...

But the owners largely want there to be at least some drag on the salary cap. It makes their profit margins wider.

The players association is also not happy about that... a lot of disgruntled parties right now.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Back to the grind on the Coyotes....I've read the potential options...anyone else have clarity:

1. Mesa - mall site (public referendum required)
2. Scottsdale - where would work, what hoops to jump through?
3. Indian Land - many many hoops to jump through I assume?
4. Tempe - out due to referendum?
5. Anywhere else local an option?

1-Mall site is owned. Land $ went up on may 17..
2-Scottsdale. No idea..
3-Tribal land... NHL has no positive control of $
4-Tempe .. I hope the yotes keep looking there
5-I do not see another local spot.

 

[MeHateHe]

This is my question too. Are we back to square one? Just to get to the point of a vote requires so much red tape. Is Mesa going to require preliminary meetings and studies and on and on and on just to get to the point where the people can then still possibly vote it down? That doesn't make sense.

It feels like we need a stickied FAQ on this thread alone, with answers to questions like this. I mean, this has gone on for so long it might be useful to have a recitation of basic facts, and this is one that a lot of folks keep coming back to ask.

 

[jonathan613]

To me 2 things are clear :

1)If the situation is going to get resolved, the NHL will need to take direct control of the situation. Meruelo has burned too many bridges
2)The only good solution for now is not to build an arena , but to commit to play in existing arenas for a significant period of time to show a commitment to AZ. Then when the team is on better financial footing, build a new arena.

My solution is as follows:

1) Have the NHL negotiate on behalf of meruelo with glendale for a 10 year deal in which the coyotes will pay -say 150 million - for the duration of the deal to wipe out the city debt. The coyotes would commit to playing all weekend games in glendale and be given some control of the other revenue streams the arena can provide similar to the other NHL teams. After 10 years the coyotes would be given the right to demolish the arena in glendale. On the weekends and if games on friday nights could be scheduled to start at 8PM, i do not see location as much of an issue

2) Play the weeknight games in the footprint center-obstructions and all. It is still a lot better solution than mullet arena

3)Focus your money on having a competitive team payroll wise

4)In the long term, come to an agreement with ishbia on merging the coyotes and suns ownership with an eye on a massive renovation of the footprint center. the teams would temporarily play in glendale

 

[Stumbledore]

Nordiques 2.0 would be like Jets 2.0 - a profitable, middle-of-the-road franchise. Not going to be at the top of profitability, but not going to be a financial worry for the league.

The problem with Quebec is there is no ownership group with enough $$$ to buy the team.

There's always talk of language and political issues, too, but I'm not buying it. If les Canadiens can work in the NHL, then the Nords should be able to as well.

 

[Stumbledore]

My solution is as follows:

1) Have the NHL negotiate on behalf of meruelo with glendale for a 10 year deal

This is the same NHL which extorted $50 million from Glendale?

Good luck with that.

 

[mouser]

For Fiesta Mall, he has to see if Carvana/Drivetime magnate Ernie Garcia II is even agreeable to sell the plot to him. Ernie's Verde Investments just recently completed an ~8 year quest to unite the fractured parcels from other owners to completely own the area and has submitted initial paperwork with the city to transform it to a resident/shopping district.

Unless Meruelo comes in and offers a huge overpay you're looking at months if not a year of negotiation on that before he can even start with the Mesa City Council.

I would float the possibility of a partnership with Verde for the site development, rather than a complete buyout of the land by Meruelo.