CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[TheLegend]

'No factual basis' to Coyotes' reported complaints to NHLPA

A report in The New York Post detailed that Coyotes players had allegedly filed multiple grievances with the NHLPA over the course of the season on a range of issues.

sports.yahoo.com

Daly: only (official) grievance/complaint was construction delays.

Adding….



I will presume Morgan talked to agents for the Coyotes players. Leaves complaints from players of other teams open.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Some interesting choices for Arizona, including in Argentina, Honduras, Manitoba, Nebraska, and Louisiana.

Arizona (disambiguation) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's a Miami in Manitoba, and a radio station in Winnipeg ran a "watch the super bowl from Miami" contest one year it was hosted there.

The prize was a trip to Miami, mb, and accommodation and dinner there, lol

Adding….



I will presume Morgan talked to agents for the Coyotes players. Leaves complaints from players of other teams open.

My feel on that is it was a leak from the PA itself to put pressure on the NHL to resolve the situation, as opposed to individual player agents.

 

[GKJ]

Adding….



I will presume Morgan talked to agents for the Coyotes players. Leaves complaints from players of other teams open.

‘Complaints’ and ‘rising to the level of a CBA violation’ are also not necessarily the same.

 

[Stumbledore]

'No factual basis' to Coyotes' reported complaints to NHLPA

A report in The New York Post detailed that Coyotes players had allegedly filed multiple grievances with the NHLPA over the course of the season on a range of issues.

sports.yahoo.com

Daly: only (official) grievance/complaint was construction delays.

We saw Daly's honesty and ethics on display when the NHL was extorting $50 million out of Glendale, says the smug little bitch.

 

[TheLegend]

‘Complaints’ and ‘rising to the level of a CBA violation’ are also not necessarily the same.

The PA and NHL are meeting next week.

Might have more clarity then (or not).

 

[TheLegend]

We saw Daly's honesty and ethics on display when the NHL was extorting $50 million out of Glendale, says the smug little bitch.

Well as mentioned above. Someone in the PA might have leaked this to Brooks prior to the meeting planned.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

I think the current (and IMO, correct perception) isn't that hockey in Arizona itself can't work, it's that the Coyotes as a franchise can't work. Too far gone kind of thing.

Do they have any kind of relationship with ex-players that would bring benefits to to keeping the brand? I.e. Tkachuk and Roenick - do you ever hear from them about anything or have they basically moved on from any ties with the area?

 

[StreetHawk]

Do they have any kind of relationship with ex-players that would bring benefits to to keeping the brand? I.e. Tkachuk and Roenick - do you ever hear from them about anything or have they basically moved on from any ties with the area?

Tkachuk seems to have more STL ties than AZ ones. JR, he enjoyed the life of AZ but not sure what he is up to.

I think they needed to be an expansion team like the late 90’s ones in needing to have an arena all set and done before joining. Otherwise they don’t get in.

 

[Spydey629]

There's a Miami in Manitoba, and a radio station in Winnipeg ran a "watch the super bowl from Miami" contest one year it was hosted there.

The prize was a trip to Miami, mb, and accommodation and dinner there, lol


My feel on that is it was a leak from the PA itself to put pressure on the NHL to resolve the situation, as opposed to individual player agents.

There is also Indiana and California, PA. Both have state universities as well. Indiana is known as IUP, but Cal is Cal.

 

[aqib]

And he offered Glendale $50 million as a consolation prize.

Balsillie wanted an team in Hamilton. He knew the value of a team there was much higher than in Arizona at the time. The league was forced to show that in BK court.

But the NHL didn't want the situation of a team running out on a 6-year old publicly funded building, and having rogue owners coming in through the side door.

There was a lot going on here, so you can't just ignore the context and keep cherry picking items to make some sort of point.

I was responding to the part about Moyes being conned. He wasn't. It was simple math.

 

[bleedblue94]

i cannot wait for the 30 for 30 about the past 2+ decades.

 

[ponder719]

i cannot wait for the 30 for 30 about the past 2+ decades.

This one's going to need to be a 3,000 for 30.

 

[oldunclehue]

I really hope I am wrong...but if we are looking at a timeline of at least 4-5 years to build an arena somewhere in Arizona....will the NHL/NHLPA allow this team to play in Mullet arena for over half a decade? I just can't see it.

Such a mess this situation is. I don't see the team getting through a public referendum based on the fact Arizona seems to have some powerful anti-tax lobbying groups as well as the small "city" sized that make up the Phoenix area don't have the population base in one area that want to have any risk of using tax dollars for this.

I think for the organization to thrive...they need Matthews to come home and a locked in new arena deal to go with it. Otherwise...next year is the swan song IMHO

 

[Boris Zubov]

I really hope I am wrong...but if we are looking at a timeline of at least 4-5 years to build an arena somewhere in Arizona....will the NHL/NHLPA allow this team to play in Mullet arena for over half a decade? I just can't see it.

Such a mess this situation is. I don't see the team getting through a public referendum based on the fact Arizona seems to have some powerful anti-tax lobbying groups as well as the small "city" sized that make up the Phoenix area don't have the population base in one area that want to have any risk of using tax dollars for this.

I think for the organization to thrive...they need Matthews to come home and a locked in new arena deal to go with it. Otherwise...next year is the swan song IMHO

One thing history tells us about this saga is to expect the unexpected. Every single time they've been on death's door, they've somehow manage to avoid the guillotine. The latest example was when Glendale booted them & Sarver had no interest in offering them a life raft, they somehow pulled the Mullet rabbit out of a hat. If Mullet wasn't an option or didn't open until November of '23 instead of last year, then they're already in a new city. It's happened multiple times where they've avoided the hangman, so anyone shoveling dirt on the coffin is acting prematurely.

 

[TheLegend]

I was responding to the part about Moyes being conned. He wasn't. It was simple math.

Fine.... you stick with that little revision of history and I'll stick to the facts.

 

[aqib]

i cannot wait for the 30 for 30 about the past 2+ decades.

It will be more like the Showtime documentary about the Vancouver Grizzlies.

 

[TheLegend]

i cannot wait for the 30 for 30 about the past 2+ decades.

Someone from here was going to write a book, but I think got scared off after it reached War and Peace in size.

 

[BMN]

Someone from here was going to write a book, but I think got scared off after it reached War and Peace in size.

Clearly it's not a 30 for 30, it's a mini-series. Honestly if you want to trace it back to Winnipeg and the WHA-to-NHL transfer chicanery, you'd have a full fledged television show that would go for several seasons.

 

[bleedblue94]

Someone from here was going to write a book, but I think got scared off after it reached War and Peace in size.

30 part almanac

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

i cannot wait for the 30 for 30 about the past 2+ decades.

It would be impossible.

Although if we get finality one way or another, I may start that draft of the book I've been thinking of writing on it.

The problem isn't the length, i felt it was impossible to write without any idea of what the ending will be.

 

[RogerRoger]

It would be impossible.

Although if we get finality one way or another, I may start that draft of the book I've been thinking of writing on it.

The problem isn't the length, i felt it was impossible to write without any idea of what the ending will be.

I guess it depends how you want to articulate the book, if you want to start it before knowing if the Yotes move, you could articulate it around each ownership. They could be their own little saga. You would know what the ending is for all of your sagas other than the current one. Because, worst case scenario, the team remains in a state of semi-dysfunctional limbo for decades and you'd just keep putting it off. Losing precious time and sources as time goes by.

 

[tucker3434]

I really hope I am wrong...but if we are looking at a timeline of at least 4-5 years to build an arena somewhere in Arizona....will the NHL/NHLPA allow this team to play in Mullet arena for over half a decade? I just can't see it.

Such a mess this situation is. I don't see the team getting through a public referendum based on the fact Arizona seems to have some powerful anti-tax lobbying groups as well as the small "city" sized that make up the Phoenix area don't have the population base in one area that want to have any risk of using tax dollars for this.

I think for the organization to thrive...they need Matthews to come home and a locked in new arena deal to go with it. Otherwise...next year is the swan song IMHO

The last plausible option I see is retreating back to Desert Diamond Arena to buy themselves some time. I would imagine they exhausted all possible avenues there before moving to a <5k capacity college rink. But they weren’t down to their very last chance then like they are now. That’s the Hail Mary I see. No way they continue indefinitely in Mullet. That doesn’t make sense for anyone.

 

[KevFu]

I don't think the bolded is talked about enough. If a team needs a 2.5 billion dollar entertainment complex with residences in order to be profitable, it's a pretty strong indication that the region isn't a viable hockey market at this point.

That's non-sense. Literally EVERYONE building new arena/stadiums are trying to do this, simply because it's more revenue. The development rights to the area surrounding the stadium/arena are coveted, because tens of thousands of people are trafficking the area and it's a much higher ROI than an arena.

The two parties negotiating/dividing costs for the arena/stadium are both trying to spend as little as possible, and keep as much revenue as possible.

If an NHL owner builds a $900m area himself, and makes $30m in profit running a hockey team... he's broken even after 30 years, at which point he needs a new arena. This is why teams don't just build their own.

If a city gives a $900m arena to an owner for free, they're out $900m.

Making it a "mixed used" development project brings in outside revenue streams besides the team and city.

The NHL owner and city split the cost of the $900m arena and the owner pays off his part of the arena from being the landlord of the entertainment district, the city pays off their part of the arena by collecting the taxes from the entertainment district. The hockey team has the revenues to be successful because they're not paying off the arena the whole time, and the city is creating revenue out of what was nothing.

The business are fronting the cost, which they can afford to do because the arena is handing them tens of thousands in customer traffic. It's win-win-win.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I guess it depends how you want to articulate the book, if you want to start it before knowing if the Yotes move, you could articulate it around each ownership. They could be their own little saga. You would know what the ending is for all of your sagas other than the current one. Because, worst case scenario, the team remains in a state of semi-dysfunctional limbo for decades and you'd just keep putting it off. Losing precious time and sources as time goes by.

Ha - that ship has long since sailed - and I'm no longer in the position of being knowledgeable enough on the subject.

I'm a huge fan of "the death of WCW" as a book, and I would recommend it to even non-wrestling fans.

That's a book that really takes every bit of it's tone from the fact the company is dead, and the entire thing plays off knowing the ending, even if its hugely episodic.

And, knowing this saga, by the time I write it, something will happen that will make the entire thing out of date.

 

[KevFu]

I will never understand how the Phoenix area had two arenas capable of supporting an NHL team and couldn’t find a way to make either work.

The NBA arena couldn't really support an NHL team and that's the entire crux of this issue.

If PHX had known they were getting hockey, they could have built an NBA/NHL arena. MLB reached out to Colangelo about owning an MLB team in PHX, because he was the guy they wanted owning a PHX team. The NHL should have done that first.

Do they have any kind of relationship with ex-players that would bring benefits to to keeping the brand? I.e. Tkachuk and Roenick - do you ever hear from them about anything or have they basically moved on from any ties with the area?

I mean, Shane Doan. (Who's son is on Arizona State's team; and the two of them dropped the first puck in Mullet Arena).