Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part XIII

[Golden_Jet]

Speaking of efficacy, this story came out today:

3 Fully Vaccinated People Catch Covid-19 Coronavirus, Says Hawaii DOH

3 Fully Vaccinated People Catch Covid-19 Coronavirus, Says Hawaii DOH

That’s as expected I think, as the efficacy is for hospitalization and from symptomatic symptoms

 

[4thline]

That's always been known that can and probably will happen. Same as the flu shot. The thing they are saying is that the vaccine drops hospilizations and lessens how severe your symptoms are.

By doing that we can then live with Covid and get back to somewhat a normal life.

The article itself advocates for vaccine effectiveness and advises against putting much stock in the titular stat.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Maybe. Maybe waiting leads to a slight drop in personal efficacy. But maybe that drop in efficacy is offset by the societal benefit of getting more people 1 shot level protection ASAP. Maybe that efficacy drop is limited to the oldest among us, those that have already been vaccinated.

They said it drops to something like 40% efficacy on the radio. Like basically starting from square one.

Lots of maybe's, not among them is "maybe this debate over how to best rollout means that it's not safe at all." It's a ridiculous leap.

I never said anything close to this. I'm questioning people blindly "following the science". These decisions were inarguably made for political reasons due to the lack of vaccines and our government looking for an election to secure a majority. Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional. So now, who is the "science"? Tam? The same person talking about it being racist to limit flights from hotspots last year? The person talking about "inclusive healthcare"? The person now silent on the decision to stretch second doses to 4 months?

Yeah, I'll trust my own version of science thanks. Had 90s in sciences in grade 13 BTW just like every other course.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I didn't mock someone for getting a C in grade 10 science, I mocked the idea of someone with limited to no scientific or medical education making decisions contrary to scientific and medical consensus being a "lifestyle"

Maybe I misinterpreted, I didn't read earlier posts, just the one where you talked about their C in science.

 

[4thline]

They said it drops to something like 40% efficacy on the radio. Like basically starting from square one.



I never said anything close to this. I'm questioning people blindly "following the science". These decisions were inarguably made for political reasons due to the lack of vaccines and our government looking for an election to secure a majority. Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional. So now, who is the "science"? Tam? The same person talking about it being racist to limit flights from hotspots last year? The person talking about "inclusive healthcare"? The person now silent on the decision to stretch second doses to 4 months?

Yeah, I'll trust my own version of science thanks. Had 90s in sciences in grade 13 BTW just like every other course.

So this whole thing was a red herring given the context of the discussion was vaccine good vs. vaccine bad?

 

[4thline]

Maybe I misinterpreted, I didn't read earlier posts, just the one where you talked about their C in science.

It was illustrative conjecture, I have no idea what that poster's grades were lol. I resented the concept of "restrictions for ME not getting a vaccine is equivalent to restrictions on THEM not living healthier, and we'd never restrict THEM so you can't restrict ME"

 

[justashadowof]

I didn't mock someone for getting a C in grade 10 science, I mocked the idea of someone with limited to no scientific or medical education making decisions contrary to scientific and medical consensus being a "lifestyle"

Consensus is a meaningless concept with regards to actual science. If a hypothesis is proven to be true or false through a reproducible test, it doesn't matter what the consensus of credentialed talking heads are committed to state publicly.

This brings up an old musing of mine on these vaccines. SARS-Covid has several lines of prospective vaccine projects initiated yet never approved despite a decade and half of development and trials. Most of these rapidly developed COVID-19 vaccines come from those projects. What trials on human subjects have been done to prove the efficacy of any of these vaccines? The answer is none. YOU ARE the trial subjects. AND governments across the globe have exempted the makers of these vaccines from all liability should they have any deleterious effects! These vaccines have been expedited years ahead of schedule. As someone who worked in the pharmaceutical industry in quality assurance, I'm a great believer in government regulation of that industry. It's one of the few functions of government I consider essential. And for goodness sakes, it was the great and despised former POTUS who was the original impetus behind this vaccine rush folly. At best, they'll mostly be harmless and ineffectual. At worst, who knows once you start messing around with genetic material? Heck, even proteins can be dangerous, ever heard of Mad Cow disease?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

So this whole thing was a red herring given the context of the discussion was vaccine good vs. vaccine bad?

You made your own interpretations as well. I talked about one single thing: blindly believing our leaders. I used your "C average" comment in a tertiarily way but it had nothing to do with my point: these people have been wrong so many times it's laughable. The WHO, Hajdu, Tam, Fauci, you name it, they've been full of it from the beginning. So when someone tells me the AZ vaccine is safe or that it's OK to stretch the time between Pfizer/Moderna doses to 4 months, I'm listening to my inner voice. It's been right more often.

 

[4thline]

At best, they'll mostly be harmless and ineffectual.

At best they're essentially wiping out harmful infections amongst highly vaccinated populations with every passing day

 

[justashadowof]

At best they're essentially wiping out harmful infections amongst highly vaccinated populations with every passing day

Remember none of them approved as vaccines for the original SARS-CoVID in over 15 years of development and trials.

 

[4thline]

You made your own interpretations as well. I talked about one single thing: blindly believing our leaders. I used your "C average" comment in a tertiarily way but it had nothing to do with my point: these people have been wrong so many times it's laughable. The WHO, Hajdu, Tam, Fauci, you name it, they've been full of it from the beginning. So when someone tells me the AZ vaccine is safe or that it's OK to stretch the time between Pfizer/Moderna doses to 4 months, I'm listening to my inner voice. It's been right more often.

Skepticism of leadership and motivations and free thinking is not what I was speaking against, nor is it the same as demanding that taking action/ making decisions based on that skepticism (not getting the vaccine in a timely manner) be free from consequences (being barred from venues like MSG).

 

[Craig Button]

In regards to

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/14/3-fully-vaccinated-people-catch-covid-19-coronavirus-says-hawaii-doh/?sh=6a9ecdba6247


3 fully vaccinated people and a fourth who only received one dose caught Covid in Hawaii.

So 4 people out of 549,000+ doses administered.

not bad at all.


Hawai‘i DOH: Info & Resources for Managing COVID-19

 

[stealth1]

I never said anything close to this. I'm questioning people blindly "following the science". These decisions were inarguably made for political reasons due to the lack of vaccines and our government looking for an election to secure a majority. Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional. So now, who is the "science"? Tam? The same person talking about it being racist to limit flights from hotspots last year? The person talking about "inclusive healthcare"? The person now silent on the decision to stretch second doses to 4 months?

Yeah, I'll trust my own version of science thanks. Had 90s in sciences in grade 13 BTW just like every other course.

Me personally I will tend to trust those who have a science and medical background over some guy on here or those on those rhetoric news sites that those guys on coast to coast radio talk about

 

[hockeyes]

You made your own interpretations as well. I talked about one single thing: blindly believing our leaders. I used your "C average" comment in a tertiarily way but it had nothing to do with my point: these people have been wrong so many times it's laughable. The WHO, Hajdu, Tam, Fauci, you name it, they've been full of it from the beginning. So when someone tells me the AZ vaccine is safe or that it's OK to stretch the time between Pfizer/Moderna doses to 4 months, I'm listening to my inner voice. It's been right more often.

Nobody advocates blindly following anything but nuance doesn't seem to be a strong suit of the "skeptical genius" crowd.

 

[Future]

I think that you're missing the point.
Vaccines in general are only 95% effective. That means that you and or your elderly parents / friends might have had the vaccine but it doesn't work. If you don't get the vaccine you might be infecting people who have had the vaccine.

The idea is for everyone to get the vaccine then 95% of us will be vaccinated and we will have herd immunity. The guy you responded to explained it very clearly.

Just because your elderly parents got the vaccine, it doesn't mean that it worked on them.

No, you are missing the point. It is 95% at preventing infection. Most are virtually 100% effective in preventing severe symptoms and hospitalizations. Like I said, I’m not participating in your new normal with constant mask wearing and distancing from family and friends whenever I get the vaccine just to prevent myself or someone else from getting the sniffles.

 

[sxvnert]

If getting the vaccine meant not being able to wear a mask and having your life go back to normal then everyone would be on board. Until then most will respond with "whats the point, I'll keep wearing my mask".

 

[4thline]

I clearly need more sleep.

How in the sweet f*** did I debate someone that was insistent that their opinions are a lifestyle disease and not just... let them be right

 

[666]

No, you are missing the point. It is 95% at preventing infection. Most are virtually 100% effective in preventing severe symptoms and hospitalizations. Like I said, I’m not participating in your new normal with constant mask wearing and distancing from family and friends whenever I get the vaccine just to prevent myself or someone else from getting the sniffles.

Well then, I truly hope that you don't end up killing your parents or grandparents. Good luck.

 

[Future]

Well then, I truly hope that you don't end up killing your parents or grandparents. Good luck.

With most of these vaccines being virtually 100% effective at preventing severe symptoms... what are the odds of a vaccinated person carrying the virus, transmitting it to another vaccinated person, and have that person still die from COVID? Probably less than getting struck by lightning at that point. But thanks anyways.

 

[666]

With most of these vaccines being virtually 100% effective at preventing severe symptoms... what are the odds of a vaccinated person carrying the virus, transmitting it to another vaccinated person, and have that person still die from COVID? Probably less than getting struck by lightning at that point. But thanks anyways.

No, this is wrong. In some people, any vaccine simple doesn't work. If your grandparents got the vaccine and it doesn't work on them and you don't get the vaccine it's the same thing as neither of you being vaccinated. Be careful. You don't want to be that guy on the news that killed his grandma because he didn't understand the science.

 

[Future]

No, this is wrong. In some people, any vaccine simple doesn't work. If your grandparents got the vaccine and it doesn't work on them and you don't get the vaccine it's the same thing as neither of you being vaccinated. Be careful. You don't want to be that guy on the news that killed his grandma because he didn't understand the science.

You’re right. I’m not leaving my house for the next 20 years. Thanks for the advice.

 

[smokes lets go]

In regards to
3 Fully Vaccinated People Catch Covid-19 Coronavirus, Says Hawaii DOH


3 fully vaccinated people and a fourth who only received one dose caught Covid in Hawaii.

So 4 people out of 549,000+ doses administered.

not bad at all.


Hawai‘i DOH: Info & Resources for Managing COVID-19

People seem to forget that a main point of the vaccines, regardless of their efficacy, is to prevent serious cases of covid. So far all of the approved ones have demonstrated that. No one who were administered the vaccine via the clinical trials that still got covid was hospitalized.

 

[PromisedLand]

Coronavirus in numbers: Canada records over 49,000 hospitalizations due to COVID-19

 

[PromisedLand]

In regards to
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...-coronavirus-says-hawaii-doh/?sh=6a9ecdba6247
3 Fully Vaccinated People Catch Covid-19 Coronavirus, Says Hawaii DOH


3 fully vaccinated people and a fourth who only received one dose caught Covid in Hawaii.

So 4 people out of 549,000+ doses administered.

not bad at all.


Hawai‘i DOH: Info & Resources for Managing COVID-19

Dont understand why is this narrative is still pushed? getting vaccinated doesn't mean you will not get covid or not spread covid. It is only designed to reduce the severe covid symptoms

 

[justashadowof]

Dont understand why is this narrative is still pushed? getting vaccinated doesn't mean you will not get covid or not spread covid. It is only designed to reduce the severe covid symptoms

Please list the published (and reproducible) clinical trial for each vaccine variant that has been completed to demonstrate scientifically the efficacy of each vaccine protecting against the severity of COVID-19 infections. Hint: you won't be able to do this because they don't exist. WE ARE THE CLINICAL TRIAL. And a really, really poorly controlled clinical trial that won't be producing quality data.

P.S. I don't care whether or not anyone decides to take one of these vaccines. I just want to spread knowledge of the circumstances of what you're dutifully following. Unlike you lot I don't think it's my right to force you to do what I think you should do. I'm anti-authoritarian.