I think that's what we are doing now. They are loosening restrictions already. Most things are back to being open again. Outside of masks, whicj I personally think will be around for awhile, I think by summer life will be close to what it was.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part XIII
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You guys should check out this interview.
Basically, the global mass vaccination campaign will result in "immune escape" where vaccine resistant variants are created.
I don't think this pandemic is ending anytime soon. The variants are getting more contagious and making people sicker. I think the world is pretty screwed. The worst of the pandemic is likely still ahead of us, not behind us.
ULF_55
Moderator
Do you really think there is a "back to normal" path?
Perhaps the new normal involves smaller cohorts you trust. Not for everyone, but perhaps for the survivors if the variants outpace the mRNA.
Perhaps the new normal involves smaller cohorts you trust. Not for everyone, but perhaps for the survivors if the variants outpace the mRNA.
You are likely right but it sucks *ss ... nothing better than an opening summer round of golf/cigar and then drink with da boys at some bar patio getting smashed and talking old times
Interesting the current virus affects the old the worst. Immunize the old and frail, the vaccine can't reproduce there so it mutates to infect the young. Maybe I guess, bacteria mutate to super strains when they learn to defeat antibiotics. So anything is possible.
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The Hanging Jowl
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- Apr 2, 2017
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This is a big fear of mine. Our federal government is making it worse too. Scientists warned months ago if the Pfizer and Moderna second doses weren't done within the 21/28 day window it will cause variants/mutations. We are stretching it to 4 months (!). Seems like a disaster in the making to me and as I posted the other day, even our top federal science advisor has gone against the government and advises against this. The 4 month stretch is being done for exclusively political reasons. The feds need the most people vaccinated as soon as possible even if it's a flawed single dose to make it look like they did well on this file prior to calling an election.
Open your eyes people. The decisions being made aren't all about "the science".
Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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Leaky vaccines will kill a lot of people who can't or won't get vaccinated. When similarly leaky vaccines were administered to chickens en masse for Marek's disease, the virus they were vaccinating against went from a 10% kill rate to 100% in unvaccinated chickens.
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Wafflewhipper
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- Jan 18, 2014
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Wafflewhipper
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So i ask from just a personal thought. Why would i trust blatant,wingin it idiots. Looks like sh!t,smells like sh!t,tastes like sh!t. Good thing I didn’t walk in it.
I read about leaky vaccines, thanks. Interesting point was, the sicker or worse your sideffects are after getting vaccinated the better it is for you. In a nutshell, if your immune system determines, "Oh its that virus again no big deal", you could get a smaller response"
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
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There was a back to normal after the Spanish Flu...why not Covid-19?
Bluelines
Python FTW!
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Bluelines
Python FTW!
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Hanging Jowl is a perfect example of a poster looking for confirmation of his own "alternative" thoughts on Covid. A simple google search would tell you that guy in the video has a history of going against conventional medicine and not the most reliable source on vaccines.
Cpt Maple Leaf
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- Jul 19, 2009
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I was tired the next day but have been fine since. Second shot coming up on the 6th, hoping that goes just as well, thank you.
I was thinking about that today how ever since Covid started there has many more people with alternative thoughts. It's not just here. Many of my friends are like that now too.
ULF_55
Moderator
Interesting read here, although the article is dated, a year old now: A science journalist explains how the Spanish flu changed the world
You can disagree with him on the science if you want... but it's unfair to call him a "grifter". He's also not the only person saying this kind of stuff. Check out this article in Nature basically saying the same stuff he's saying:
Five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible
There’s another problem to contend with as immunity grows in a population, Ferrari says. Higher rates of immunity can create selective pressure, which would favour variants that are able to infect people who have been immunized. Vaccinating quickly and thoroughly can prevent a new variant from gaining a foothold. But again, the unevenness of vaccine roll-outs creates a challenge, Ferrari says. “You’ve got a fair bit of immunity, but you still have a fair bit of disease, and you’re stuck in the middle.” Vaccines will almost inevitably create new evolutionary pressures that produce variants, which is a good reason to build infrastructure and processes to monitor for them, he adds.
So nature is also saying the same thing... mainly that vaccines will not result in herd immunity, and that the vaccines will put pressure on the virus to mutate to become vaccine resistant. Is Nature also a grifter publication? They're essentially saying the same thing as Geert, just a few weeks later.
Bluelines
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The guy is a grifter he profits off his insane ideas.
Dude vaccines do not cause variants, time (between virus emergence and vaccinations) and people who don't have the vaccine provide breeding grounds to create variants. It's the same idiot antivaxers that have found their new boogie man. Never in the history of ever have we ever experienced an explosion of variants after widespread vaccines.
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How does he profit off of what he's saying and how much money has he made?
Again, read that nature article... it's also saying that the vaccine will produce variants. You can disagree if you want, but it's a valid theory.
You're correct that this has never happened in history, but this is an unprecedented pandemic. We've never attempted global mass vaccination in the middle of a pandemic. This is a lab-made coronavirus which we've never encountered before.
ULF_55
Moderator
So I guess the question to be answered, is whether you'd rather get a one or two shot vaccine, or a subscription to a COVID-## testing service.
Right now all testing is free, but that might not always be the case if this Pandemic ever runs its course.
Right, in Calgary for example, you can't go to the doctor's office if you have any COVID symptom, and there are many, until after you have a COVID-19 test and it shows negative.
Yes, you can go to emergency, but not your family doctor.
I suspect, a proof of vaccination will bypass that step.
The speculation is that same will apply for multi-people events.
Wonder if they'll have two named entrances for some events?
Right now all testing is free, but that might not always be the case if this Pandemic ever runs its course.
Right, in Calgary for example, you can't go to the doctor's office if you have any COVID symptom, and there are many, until after you have a COVID-19 test and it shows negative.
Yes, you can go to emergency, but not your family doctor.
I suspect, a proof of vaccination will bypass that step.
The speculation is that same will apply for multi-people events.
Wonder if they'll have two named entrances for some events?
Bluelines
Python FTW!
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He gets paid to speak publicly on his "theories". How much I don't know, I'm not his accountant. How would anyone know that answer?
There is no evidence that in the history of vaccines that ANY vaccine created or produced a variant. The two articles you quoted lack a clear understanding of how vaccines are created. In the mRNA vaccine, they modified a protein that has zero ability to create a variant. ZERO. ZERO. ZERO
You produce variants by giving the virus a host and time to mutate.
There have been plenty of mass vaccinations in history and never has there ever been a variant outbreak because of these vaccines. Small pox vaccine, Swine Flu vaccine, Polio vaccine, H1N1 vaccine, Diphtheria vaccine, MMR vaccine, Tdap vaccine, HPV vaccine.
Vaccines don't produce variants. It's not a valid theory, case closed, end of discussion.
pro·duce | \ prə-ˈdüs , prō-, -ˈdyüs \
produced; producing
Definition of produce
(Entry 1 of 2)
transitive verb
1: to offer to view or notice
2: to give birth or rise to : YIELD
3: to extend in length, area, or volume produce a side of a triangle
4: to make available for public exhibition or dissemination: such as
a: to provide funding forsearch for backers to produce the film
b: to oversee the making ofwill produce their new album
5a: to cause to have existence or to happen : BRING ABOUT
b: to give being, form, or shape to : MAKEespecially : MANUFACTURE
6: to compose, create, or bring out by intellectual or physical effort
7: to cause to accrue
intransitive verb
: to bear, make, or yield something
produce
noun
pro·duce | \ ˈprō-(ˌ)düs also ˈprä- , -(ˌ)dyüs \
Definition of produce (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: something produced
b: the amount produced : YIELD
2: agricultural products and especially fresh fruits and vegetables as distinguished from grain and other staple crops
3: the progeny usually of a female animal
Bluelines
Python FTW!
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I will get what ever they have avail at the time of the vaccination. It's not really a rather question, it's a what am I getting today question. Not sure if anyone is better or more safe than the other one.
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