Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part XIII

[Confucius]

Anyone?

The government is not prepared for a surge on the health system. Tax dollars are wasted elsewhere, there is a lot of money wasted. be It art work, vehicles, bloated expense accounts, salaries, pensions, number of bureaucrats etc etc. Cheaper just to lock everyone down than to spend on healthcare. For the longest time big biz made out like bandits by the government closing down their competition. The government just shutdown the little guy. After a year things are changing.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

The government is not prepared for a surge on the health system. Tax dollars are wasted elsewhere, there is a lot of money wasted. be It art work, vehicles, bloated expense accounts, salaries, pensions, number of bureaucrats etc etc. Cheaper just to lock everyone down than to spend on healthcare. For the longest time big biz made out like bandits by the government closing down their competition. The government just shutdown the little guy. After a year things are changing.

So you think the global lockdowns are a coordinated strategy that governments are using to crush small businesses?

To me, that is straight out of a science fiction book. The amount of coordination that would take, plus the fact that not a single piece of evidence (a conversation, an email, etc) has surfaced from any of the global participants in lockdowns...just seems far fetched.

The bigger question I have is why are so many small businesses ill-prepared for the future of e-commerce?

I think it's a global pandemic and millions are dead or are dying, and it just really sucks for all of us. Governments are trying to put the actual lives of many over the economic consequences, and personally, I don't have an issue with that mindset. Old/at risk people aren't expendable in my mind.

Ask some nice folks from Venezuela. They used to live the good life too.

What does Venezuela have to do with anything?

 

[4thline]

What does Venezuela have to do with anything?

Europe (particularly Scandinavia) doesn't exist. Anything left of the Republican party is doomed to failure as a 3rd world totalitarian regime.

 

[Confucius]

So you think the global lockdowns are a coordinated strategy that governments are using to crush small businesses?

To me, that is straight out of a science fiction book. The amount of coordination that would take, plus the fact that not a single piece of evidence (a conversation, an email, etc) has surfaced from any of the global participants in lockdowns...just seems far fetched.

The bigger question I have is why are so many small businesses ill-prepared for the future of e-commerce?

I think it's a global pandemic and millions are dead or are dying, and it just really sucks for all of us. Governments are trying to put the actual lives of many over the economic consequences, and personally, I don't have an issue with that mindset. Old/at risk people aren't expendable in my mind.



What does Venezuela have to do with anything?

This catastrophe won't even hit the 4 million dead the hong kong flu caused its at the 2 million dead the Asian flu caused in the 50 and 60s. Nobody shutdown then and society knew isolation was a means of containing disease back in the dark ages.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

Europe (particularly Scandinavia) doesn't exist. Anything left of the Republican party is doomed to failure as a 3rd world totalitarian regime.

Sometimes it baffles me when people equate dictatorship/authoritarianism with economic policies.

Social democracies make up some of the most productive and progressive countries we have on this planet. There is a reason the have so many immigration applications...

 

[BlackTipReefer]

This catastrophe won't even hit the 4 million dead the hong kong flu caused its only halfway to the 2 million dead the Asian flu caused in the 50 and 60s. Nobody shutdown then and society knew isolation was a means of containing disease back in the dark ages.

Don't you see what you are saying?

This virus is so dangerous that it may kill up to 4 million even with lockdowns. Imagine what it would do if there weren't lockdowns from the start?

All I can say is thank Baby Jesus for scientists and the vaccine, a true 3rd or 4th wave would have killed many, many more.

 

[Confucius]

Don't you see what you are saying?

This virus is so dangerous that it may kill up to 4 million even with lockdowns. Imagine what it would do if there weren't lockdowns from the start?

All I can say is thank Baby Jesus for scientists and the vaccine, a true 3rd or 4th wave would have killed many, many more.

Or maybe it means the lockdowns were not that effective. Mainly because of the way they were implemented. The blame lies at the feet of the governments the world over.

 

[Bluelines]

Can’t we all just along...6 feet apart

bwhahahaha Bravo!!! Best post of this thread!!!

Holy F that was funny!!!!

 

[Bluelines]

My MPP is a far left idiot that seems mostly concerned with trying to destroy my neighbourhood. My MP is a life long, entitled do-nothing mouthpiece for Trudeau and the soccer mom crowd. I suspect if I contacted them about covid, they'd probably try and put me on some sort of government list for not agreeing with their ideology.

So you thought voicing your opinion on a hockey forum will get you more traction. Wikid plan!!!

 

[Bluelines]

My MP is a do-nothing lifer with zero clout who goes to one picnic in the riding for an hour every two years, gets photos taken that are published in his next 4 newsletters. Our MPP isn't in the government right now, turns out that she's an ardent CRT follower who is backed by an intimidation mob. And sadly I voted for both of them because the alternatives seemed worse.

So short version you've done nothing, Quelle suprise!!!

 

[IPS]

Don't you see what you are saying?

This virus is so dangerous that it may kill up to 4 million even with lockdowns. Imagine what it would do if there weren't lockdowns from the start?

All I can say is thank Baby Jesus for scientists and the vaccine, a true 3rd or 4th wave would have killed many, many more.

But there were places that didn't lockdown and their death rates are similar / sometimes even better than places that did.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

Or maybe it means the lockdowns were not that effective. Mainly because of the way they were implemented. The blame lies at the feet of the governments the world over.

Can you explain how it means lockdowns were not effective? COVID 19 was a more dangerous flu than the Aviary flu of the 50's, comparing raw death totals and somehow saying lockdowns weren't effective is some really lazy logic.

I am not saying you are wrong, or that lockdowns were the "best option", but I tend to trust professionals over facebook groups, and I've yet to be shown evidence that lockdowns were a mistake. Sweden was kind of the "testing ground" for the no lockdown concept, and it failed miserably.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

But there were places that didn't lockdown and their death rates are similar / sometimes even better than places that did.

Same population demographics?
Same reliability/transparency in reporting?
Same policy (full lockdowns/chain breakers vs partial rolling "loose" lockdowns)

Which areas were these? I'm curious about the above questions.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

So you thought voicing your opinion on a hockey forum will get you more traction. Wikid plan!!!

No, you're wrong. You're implying that I expect some sort of results from airing my opinion.

 

[IPS]

Same population demographics?
Same reliability/transparency in reporting?
Same policy (full lockdowns/chain breakers vs partial rolling "loose" lockdowns)

Which areas were these? I'm curious about the above questions.

You're not aware of the ongoing Florida vs California debate?

"Reliability/transparency in repoting" oh please, how many times does certain group slam "conspiracy theorists" but wants to call conspiracy when they see something that defies what they believe.

 

[IPS]

Can you explain how it means lockdowns were not effective? COVID 19 was a more dangerous flu than the Aviary flu of the 50's, comparing raw death totals and somehow saying lockdowns weren't effective is some really lazy logic.

I am not saying you are wrong, or that lockdowns were the "best option", but I tend to trust professionals over facebook groups, and I've yet to be shown evidence that lockdowns were a mistake. Sweden was kind of the "testing ground" for the no lockdown concept, and it failed miserably.

You don't think there's a vast group of professionals who DON'T agree with lockdowns and other measures? The appeal to authority game doesn't work either.

 

[GoonieFace]

The lockdowns were a joke. You had some cities locked down, but cities an hour away were green. So you basically are just inviting people from the locked down communities to the green zones.

You had Walmart and Costco open all the time a d they were a gong show, but I’m not “allowed” to have a few people over.

it’s the inconsistency and cherry picking that bothers me the most. Travel stayed open for some reason, if they were really worried that should have been shut down from day 1. Yet people were still going on vacations. Immigration should have been completely shut down, and shut down for years to come. But that didn’t happen.

Just poorly handled IMO, unprepared and it really showed the flaw in our healthcare system, which probably won’t get fixed.

 

[Bluelines]

Or maybe it means the lockdowns were not that effective. Mainly because of the way they were implemented. The blame lies at the feet of the governments the world over.

Short of Justin Trudeau sitting on your front step ensuring you follow the rules, the government can do only so so much . it starts with the individual, it always has it always will. Blaming some faceless entity like the "government" is an easy out for people who don't want to take personal responsibility. If I catch Covid-19 its because I didn't wash my hands, I didn't wear a mask, I didn't follow protocols.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Can you explain how it means lockdowns were not effective? COVID 19 was a more dangerous flu than the Aviary flu of the 50's, comparing raw death totals and somehow saying lockdowns weren't effective is some really lazy logic.

I am not saying you are wrong, or that lockdowns were the "best option", but I tend to trust professionals over facebook groups, and I've yet to be shown evidence that lockdowns were a mistake. Sweden was kind of the "testing ground" for the no lockdown concept, and it failed miserably.

I think that because population density, which is probably THE defining cause for covid rates is completely ignored, the entire lockdown discussion is moot. Most cases seem to be contracted in the home, in condos, apartments, etc. and all the data on restaurants, bars, etc. fails to show any significant transmission rates. South Dakota never locked down and has more favourable rates than New York State or California, for example.

 

[Bluelines]

No, you're wrong. You're implying that I expect some sort of results from airing my opinion.

What do you expect for airing your opinions?

 

[Bluelines]

I think that because population density, which is probably THE defining cause for covid rates is completely ignored, the entire lockdown discussion is moot. Most cases seem to be contracted in the home, in condos, apartments, etc. and all the data on restaurants, bars, etc. fails to show any significant transmission rates. South Dakota never locked down and has more favourable rates than New York State or California, for example.

There are 5 cities in Ontario that are more densely populated and more populated than Miami but have lower Covid rates. How come?

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

There are 5 cities in Ontario that are more densely populated and more populated than Miami but have lower Covid rates. How come?

Really? Toronto and what other cities?

 

[BlackTipReefer]

You don't think there's a vast group of professionals who DON'T agree with lockdowns and other measures? The appeal to authority game doesn't work either.

They are not the majority, in fact I haven't even seen anything to show they are are close to the majority.

And yes, I do think appeal to authority does work - we're talking about people who spent 10-15 years of their lives studying a topic being "dunked on" by twitter personalities and facebook mom groups.

My life in manufacturing has really given me appreciation for people who know what they are talking about.

This whole thing comes down to people who are science based/value life vs people who are concerned about what they may personally lose/people with political agendas against anything slightly "liberal".

Cynicism is great, but it's usually based in peer reviewed scientifically based skeptisism, not politically leanings. Anecdotally, I have 4 close relatives/family members in Nursing or other hospital based jobs and the mayhem and tragedy unfolding is very real. Dying from COVID is awful.

 

[Confucius]

Can you explain how it means lockdowns were not effective? COVID 19 was a more dangerous flu than the Aviary flu of the 50's, comparing raw death totals and somehow saying lockdowns weren't effective is some really lazy logic.

I am not saying you are wrong, or that lockdowns were the "best option", but I tend to trust professionals over facebook groups, and I've yet to be shown evidence that lockdowns were a mistake. Sweden was kind of the "testing ground" for the no lockdown concept, and it failed miserably.

Lockdowns do work, the way they were implemented do little, if anything at all.

 

[justashadowof]

What do you expect for airing your opinions?

Bigots to realize that there is more than one way to think about a particular subject matter.