Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part XIII

[Thissiteisgarbage]

This whole thing comes down to people who are science based/value life vs people who are concerned about what they may personally lose/people with political agendas against anything slightly "liberal".

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”


― Benjamin Franklin

 

[BlackTipReefer]

I think that because population density, which is probably THE defining cause for covid rates is completely ignored, the entire lockdown discussion is moot. Most cases seem to be contracted in the home, in condos, apartments, etc. and all the data on restaurants, bars, etc. fails to show any significant transmission rates. South Dakota never locked down and has more favourable rates than New York State or California, for example.

I feel like I completely agreed with one half of your post, but then you more or less completely did a 180?

Population density is key, and keeping people from congregating into high density environments is a tool in fighting airborne transmission. Lockdown stops people from congregating. A south Dakota sidewalk will see less traffic in a year than the average Manhattan sidewalk will see in 6 hours during the afternoon rush.

My personal opinion is that no businesses would need to close if we didn't have so many selfish "Truthers" feeling badass by defying mask laws/having parties/not reporting symptoms. I believe Asian countries have done better because they have a stronger sense of community.

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”


― Benjamin Franklin

Gosh, you sure have given up a lot of liberty, as you type on your privately owned PC, from your privately owned land, paid for by a job you got to choose. God forbid you wear a mask for while to save the lives of your fellow citizens, too commie to care as they say. Me first!

Lockdowns do work, the way they were implemented do little, if anything at all.

Probably because the whole population didn't commit. Too many "I'm important, mah freedoms!" types in our society. I bet we could have gotten away with a 2 week lockdown if so many people didn't under report symptoms/flaunt lockdown regulations, etc.

 

[justashadowof]

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”


― Benjamin Franklin

"The average man does not want to be free. He simply wants to be safe."

― H.L. Mencken

 

[GoonieFace]

Really? Toronto and what other cities?

I think Miami has a higher population density than Toronto, at least from what I found. Anyway, some of the blame lies on people, but it also lies at the feet of the government who have shown for the most part they have no clue what they are doing.

Social media also plays a big part, with so much disinformation spread. It also gives a voice to people who shouldn’t have one.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

"The average man does not want to be free. He simply wants to be safe."

― H.L. Mencken

Imagine thinking that sitting at home for a few weeks and wearing a mask was somehow relatable to what Benjamin Franklin was opposing.

lol spoiled, uneducated brats. Nothing so essential as the liberty to to walk around unmasked, that's definitely what Franklin was referring to.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

I think Miami has a higher population density than Toronto, at least from what I found. Anyway, some of the blame lies on people, but it also lies at the feet of the government who have shown for the most part they have no clue what they are doing.

Social media also plays a big part, with so much disinformation spread. It also gives a voice to people who shouldn’t have one.

I'm still waiting to hear the other 4 magical Ontario cities he claims are bigger than Miami and also why he ignored that fact that lockdown states such as New York have higher rates than South Dakota.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

"The average man does not want to be free. He simply wants to be safe."

― H.L. Mencken

So true many of my old teammates tell me same thing. Thank god we had you on our team. But a team without a guy or two that won't go through da boards for his buddies will never ever win anything. You are never da biggest man but you can't play that way. Safety allows existence but liberty wins you a championship.

 

[stealth1]

Okay, you think for yourself. So here we go again: name one opinion you have that is outside the urban progressive orthodoxy that is presented by the corporate media.



Oh, I get it. The lockdown was easy for you (it was easy for me too other than the lack of exercise). Because it was easy for you, you find it difficult to empathise with those who it has affected and how it has impacted the long term direction of the society into authoritarianism. Why get all up in arms about something affecting other people? How could I be so stupid to think beyond how I'm personally impacted?

One opinion outside of what corporate media says is that cancel culture and participation ribbons need to go. People need to stop be so offended by every little thing.

The reason I have a hard time empathizing with others that it's affected is how people have acted through this whole thing. Complaining about wearing masks and how a lot of people are rude to employees at many businesses has made me lose any empathy I have for most people

 

[4thline]

Imagine being so f***ing far up your own ass as to liken the slight inconvenience of public health measures to literal genocide.

 

[Bluelines]

Really? Toronto and what other cities?

Going off memory, Brampton, Ottawa, Mississauga, Toronto, Hamilton all more than 500k people, Miami is just under 500k.

 

[Confucius]

Probably because the whole population didn't commit. Too many "I'm important, mah freedoms!" types in our society. I bet we could have gotten away with a 2 week lockdown if so many people didn't under report symptoms/flaunt lockdown regulations, etc.

Sure there were some but they were not nearly as responsible as the whole plan in general. No different than a team playing like crap all game but pinning a loss on one individual.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

I'm still waiting to hear the other 4 magical Ontario cities he claims are bigger than Miami and also why he ignored that fact that lockdown states such as New York have higher rates than South Dakota.

I think most people don't bother putting efforts into responding to posts like yours because quite frankly, your side has proven time and time again that facts aren't enough if they are facts you don't like.

I can't count on all my fingies and toes how many times I've put hours into making good, thoughtful rebuttals to posts like this only to have someone post a completely irrelevant Benjamin Franklin quote or to say "ya well I don't trust government facts".

It's pointless to argue with someone who is just existing in an alternate reality where they can ignore the consensus because of one article they read on Epoch Times or saw on Fox.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

Sure there were some but they were not nearly as responsible as the whole plan in general. No different than a team playing like crap all game but pinning a loss on one individual.

It's more like the Leafs vastly outplaying their opponent, scoring 4 goals, but losing because Andersen puts up a .600 sv%. Those of us trying to make things work are being undermined by some truthers who think they know better.

It's the Selfish vs the rest of us, and the Selfish are bringing us all down. That's what happens when people grow up believing it's all about ME and not caring much for their neighbour.

 

[Confucius]

It's more like the Leafs vastly outplaying their opponent, scoring 4 goals, but losing because Andersen puts up a .600 sv%. Those of us trying to make things work are being undermined by some truthers who think they know better.

Anyway man we disagree on why the plan faired as well or poorly as it did. Carry on...

 

[justashadowof]

One opinion outside of what corporate media says is that cancel culture and participation ribbons need to go. People need to stop be so offended by every little thing.

I like that a lot!

The reason I have a hard time empathizing with others that it's affected is how people have acted through this whole thing. Complaining about wearing masks and how a lot of people are rude to employees at many businesses has made me lose any empathy I have for most people

Here, we can meet half way as well. I don't like the mask wearing but I think anyone who goes into a business without a mask where it's posted that the business requires them is grade A a-hole.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Gosh, you sure have given up a lot of liberty, as you type on your privately owned PC, from your privately owned land, paid for by a job you got to choose. God forbid you wear a mask for while to save the lives of your fellow citizens, too commie to care as they say. Me first!
.

1. Owning things does not equate to freedom. People in the Soviet Union "owned' goods they purchased.
2. I have to pay taxes on my land, get permission to drive a car, start a business, fish, hunt, collect rain water for myself, build an addition onto my house, fly on an airplane and about a 1000 more things. "Freedom" is a funny way of putting it.
3. If you want to hide away in a cave and wear 10 masks for the next 5 years - go for it - I don't care. Anyone who wants to should but stop telling everybody else what they should do though. I should be able to choose to go into a restaurant now if I want - if the owner wants to open up as well and we actually lived in a free society, but we really don't. Saying I save lives by wearing a mask is wrong - I don't have covid, never did...the VAST MAJORITY of people do not either. Why not try and target the vulnerable places/people (e.g. nursing homes) rather than destroy children's education for two years by putting it all online when none of them ever die and rarely, if ever get ill from covid at all?

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Going off memory, Brampton, Ottawa, Mississauga, Toronto, Hamilton all more than 500k people, Miami is just under 500k.[/QUOTE}

The Miami metropolitan area, is the seventh-largest metropolitan area in the United States and the 72nd largest metropolitan area in the world.

Miami-Dade, with 2,716,940 people in 2019, is the seventh most populous county in the United States.

Nothing outside of the GTA comes close.

 

[Bluelines]

One opinion outside of what corporate media says is that cancel culture and participation ribbons need to go. People need to stop be so offended by every little thing.

The reason I have a hard time empathizing with others that it's affected is how people have acted through this whole thing. Complaining about wearing masks and how a lot of people are rude to employees at many businesses has made me lose any empathy I have for most people

Ding Ding Ding, give that man a prize.

In regards to your second paragraph, I agree whole heartedly, my father told me back when I started to date, that you can learn a lot about a person based on how they treat people who they think are in a lower station in life. I've been on first dates that I ended early because the woman I was with treated the wait staff like shit because they felt they were something special and they were just lowly wait staff. The people who refuse to wear masks or give people in retail a hard time about wearing a masks are no different than those women, bitching to a retail person about government policies or corporate store policies says more about them than any words could say.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

1. Owning things does not equate to freedom. People in the Soviet Union "owned' goods they purchased.
2. I have to pay taxes on my land, get permission to drive a car, start a business, fish, hunt, collect rain water for myself, build an addition onto my house, fly on an airplane and about a 1000 more things. "Freedom" is a funny way of putting it.
3. If you want to hide away in a cave and wear 10 masks for the next 5 years - go for it - I don't care. Anyone who wants to should but stop telling everybody else what they should do though. I should be able to choose to go into a restaurant now if I want - if the owner wants to open up as well and we actually lived in a free society, but we really don't. Saying I save lives by wearing a mask is wrong - I don't have covid, never did...the VAST MAJORITY of people do not either. Why not try and target the vulnerable places/people (e.g. nursing homes) rather than destroy children's education for two years by putting it all online when none of them ever die and rarely, if ever get ill from covid at all?

Do you live in Brampton or downtown Toronto or Rexdale or Parkdale cores? Lots of people who live there see COVID affects everyday.
If you had COVID like I did, unfortunately, you might see things through a different lense.
But in general we have same life philosophy - live a full life or die
Really my big issue is for past 50+ years we have consistently defunded our healthcare by ballooning 300,000 new immigrants per year in GTA (rest of 100,000 go elsewhere in Canada - not much) and no new funding for new healthcare in GTA over this timeframe. So we have ended up in GTA with worst healthcare (docs, nurses, beds and ICU) EVER.
Now guess what a pandemic hits and we have no national lab to make vaccines for us anymore because we sold it in 1979 and we have defunded healthcare in GTA due to excess immigration and no additional spend on what matters MOST.
When everything boils down we all deserve to have healthcare. I would personally like to buy my own healthcare so I can control it. But we DON'T so bottom line we have a socialist system in place here in Canada. And our socialist leaders over da years have not funded it properly so we are STUCK in a very very bad position.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

1. Owning things does not equate to freedom. People in the Soviet Union "owned' goods they purchased.
2. I have to pay taxes on my land, get permission to drive a car, start a business, fish, hunt, collect rain water for myself, build an addition onto my house, fly on an airplane and about a 1000 more things. "Freedom" is a funny way of putting it.
3. If you want to hide away in a cave and wear 10 masks for the next 5 years - go for it - I don't care. Anyone who wants to should but stop telling everybody else what they should do though. I should be able to choose to go into a restaurant now if I want - if the owner wants to open up as well and we actually lived in a free society, but we really don't. Saying I save lives by wearing a mask is wrong - I don't have covid, never did...the VAST MAJORITY of people do not either. Why not try and target the vulnerable places/people (e.g. nursing homes) rather than destroy children's education for two years by putting it all online when none of them ever die and rarely, if ever get ill from covid at all?

We live in an incredibly free society. If you don’t want to pay taxes, move to a libertarian nation or a tax free zone.

Comparing yourself to Benjamin Franklin is just laughable and embarrassing. It’s akin to people who compare Canada to a communist authoritarian state, months after the vote. So sad.

Also you clearly don’t even understand what the role
Of the mask is or the nature of symptoms.

 

[Bluelines]

I'm still waiting to hear the other 4 magical Ontario cities he claims are bigger than Miami and also why he ignored that fact that lockdown states such as New York have higher rates than South Dakota.

I will give you 117 million reasons...

The New York metropolitan area has the busiest airport system in the United States. It is also the most frequently used port of entry and departure for international flights. In 2011, more than 104 million passengers used the airports under the auspices of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ). The number increased to 117 million in 2014. Aviation in the New York metropolitan area - Wikipedia

Zero international flights into South Dakota each year. South Dakota Airports and international Airports in South Dakota

117, 000, 000 vs 0 .... hmmmmm ....

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

So you think the global lockdowns are a coordinated strategy that governments are using to crush small businesses?

To me, that is straight out of a science fiction book. The amount of coordination that would take, plus the fact that not a single piece of evidence (a conversation, an email, etc) has surfaced from any of the global participants in lockdowns...just seems far fetched.

The bigger question I have is why are so many small businesses ill-prepared for the future of e-commerce?

I think it's a global pandemic and millions are dead or are dying, and it just really sucks for all of us. Governments are trying to put the actual lives of many over the economic consequences, and personally, I don't have an issue with that mindset. Old/at risk people aren't expendable in my mind.



What does Venezuela have to do with anything?

Why does it have to be a coordinated effort? I work with numerous government officials at various levels for a living. The vast majority are callous and really don't care about you. They care once it affects them though. I worked on a project for a major arms-length organization that was partially responsible for lobbying the McGuinty/Wynne to bring in the Ontario Disability Act that cost thousands of business and land owners hundreds of thousands of dollars to install elevators, universal washrooms, adult giving change tables, you name it. Once it was their project though they got realistic about costs. Instead of paying for an accessible ramp for their clients, once they saw the price, the delivery door in the back alley was good enough for someone in a wheelchair. Wouldn't have been for the little guy though, guarantee. They just don't care what they're costing you.

This is one of a thousand stories I can tell you. Lemme know when you want to hear if all. The point is, the bureaucrats advising on these covid decisions couldn't give a flying fadoo about small business. It doesn't even enter their thought process.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

Do you live in Brampton or downtown Toronto or Rexdale or Parkdale cores? Lots of people who live there see COVID affects everyday.
If you had COVID like I did, unfortunately, you might see things through a different lense.
But in general we have same life philosophy - live a full life or die
Really my big issue is for past 50+ years we have consistently defunded our healthcare by ballooning 300,000 new immigrants per year in GTA (rest of 100,000 go elsewhere in Canada - not much) and no new funding for new healthcare in GTA over this timeframe. So we have ended up in GTA with worst healthcare (docs, nurses, beds and ICU) EVER.
Now guess what a pandemic hits and we have no national lab to make vaccines for us anymore because we sold it in 1979 and we have defunded healthcare in GTA due to excess immigration and no additional spend on what matters MOST.
When everything boils down we all deserve to have healthcare. I would personally like to buy my own healthcare so I can control it. But we DON'T so bottom line we have a socialist system in place here in Canada. And our socialist leaders over da years have not funded it properly so we are STUCK in a very very bad position.

It’s quite the mental gymnastics to blame the socialist government when the anti socialist party has been the one to cut healthcare and was the party that removed our ability to create vaccines for a short term profit.

 

[justashadowof]

Wife did last night, I'm good, Thanks. Not my cup of tea for dude on dude action but errr.... thanks for the offer though ? ...

You're a dude? Honestly thought you weren't. Serious for a second, I apologize.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Imagine thinking that sitting at home for a few weeks and wearing a mask was somehow relatable to what Benjamin Franklin was opposing.

lol spoiled, uneducated brats. Nothing so essential as the liberty to to walk around unmasked, that's definitely what Franklin was referring to.

Must be nice for guys like you who don't have employees and families that rely on you and businesses that you worked your whole lives for to be destroyed by the government closures. Meanwhile, Wal Mart, Costco, Amazon operate freely. It's OK for a bunch of NHL teams to get together, but not for you to go to your mom's funeral . If you have to travel, instead of quarantining in your home, you're going to have to stay against your will and pay for it in a hotel that we, the government. demand you do. It'll be OK when Trudeau and other politicians want to travel you see...this just applies to you, sucker.
Your whole slight is just so superficial.