Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part X

[The CyNick]

I agree. I wear a mask everywhere I'm supposed to because it makes everyone more comfortable and I don't want to be bothered with confrontation. It's really no big concern of mine.

But what i AM concerned about is the misinformation/exaggerations about mask effectiveness. It's dangerous. Like I said earlier, I saw a reddit post where someone asked "I'm very immune compromised, but want to go back to the gym. Are masks being enforced there?" There were dozens of replies and all of them said things like "Yes, masks are enforced so it's completely safe for you." Now, do you really think the 500 experts who signed that letter yesterday about ventilation and aerosol spread would agree with that assessment? That a heavily at risk individual is safe at a non-ventilated gym because "everyone's wearing masks"?

Sure, he'd be slightly... slightly safer with everyone at masks. But by no means "safe".

So misinformation about mask effectivness from people like Pookie is very VERY dangerous.

It mostly comes from the US where everything is "team oriented". You watch CNN or MSNBC to cheer for the blue team. You watch Fox News to cheer for the red team. Theres no room for objectivity or examining the data that is being used to make these decisions. It's all just "if you dont wear a mask you are evil" rhetoric. Which helps nobody.

As you said correctly, nothing done has helped move numbers in the right direction. Last year when they implemented the mask rules in Ontario they said it was to prevent a second wave. Well that didnt work. So now they are desperate to explain why their measures didnt work. Governments are scrambling to justify their poor decisions.

In the meantime we are closing in on a year of businesses being closed down (this will get exponentially worse in the coming months), increased mental health issues (search some of the reactions to mask protests and you will see that theres a group of people out there who have become competely unhinged) and who knows what negative impacts our immune systems are experiencing.

The latter will be a bigger issue that nobody talks about. Our bodies are designed to ingest germs so our immune system works to fight them off. Wearing masks and social distancing is slowly weakening our immune systems. This means a virus that was say a 3 on a 10 point scale will impact us like a 6 or 7 because our immune systems are so weak. This will only get worse the longer we stay indoors and avoid one another. Scary.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Now, I still think we shouldn't do half measures at all. We should either do what Wuhan did (literal house arrest for a month) or do literally NO lockdowns at all and invest that $240 billion on ltc facilities.

That wont do shit. In Portugal, for nearly 2 months now you aren't allowed outside of your house past 12pm on weekends and they've still getting numbers similar to what they were getting before they shut down again. And mind you, Portugal was praised originally for how well they were doing.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

whoa dude.

I posted a detailed look at how your odds of getting Covid are as high as 80% even if you are wearing a mask.

let’s not suggest that I’m spreading very dangerous information when I haven’t seen you challenge a single person on their support for breaking travel protocols or desire a let it rip strategy in the general public.

come on man. You are better than that.

80%? Wasn't it you that said that that your kids would be back at work if everyone just bucked up and wore masks?

And in regards to people breaking travel protocols and such... public opinion is heavily against them already. Everybody disagrees with those people. There's no dangerous misinformation about them. But there IS dangerous misinformation about mask effectiveness.

 

[Muston Atthews]

 

[HolyCrap]

That wont do shit. In Portugal, for nearly 2 months now you aren't allowed outside of your house past 12pm on weekends and they've still getting numbers similar to what they were getting before they shut down again. And mind you, Portugal was praised originally for how well they were doing.

Wow that’s a crazy lockdown. That would never work here. I couldn’t imagine not being able to leave my home let alone being stuck inside during the day. We’re all outside enjoying the outdoors every chance we get here.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That wont do shit. In Portugal, for nearly 2 months now you aren't allowed outside of your house past 12pm on weekends and they've still getting numbers similar to what they were getting before they shut down again. And mind you, Portugal was praised originally for how well they were doing.

In Wuhan, it seems it was the combo of very tight borders with enforced quarantine, as well as putting everyone pretty much under house arrest.

 

[Peggy]

It's actually pretty bang on, if somewhat callous. LTC patients make up the majority of deaths because we've prevented open spread through the population.

"LTC patients are the majority of deaths, we need to do better" = Correct

"LTC's are the majority of deaths, therefore it's not serious, everything else we're doing is a waste and if we could prevent them no further action would be necessary" = Moronic

That's where you're analyst is incorrect. There's 104k cases in Alberta. That's pretty open. The majority of deaths is people in their 80s though.

Keep up

 

[Peggy]

holy moly....

Hospitals are getting extra funding to buy supplies and build field hospitals, extra icu beds.

They aren’t splitting the profits. Hospitals are not for profit entities.

It’s just.... oh my.... Lordy.

They're still getting extra funded based off covid cases. You acknowledge and and spin it. You've been doing that this whole thread. Whatever you're trying trying argue. You're arguing in circles with yourself at this point

 

[4thline]

That's where you're analyst is incorrect. There's 104k cases in Alberta. That's pretty open. The majority of deaths is people in their 80s though.

Keep up

That's 2.3% of the population, over the course of 10 months. That's no where near open spread.

 

[Pookie]

80%? .

yep

I'd see a few possible reasons to explain this.

Surprisingly, the law does not require private LTC corporations to provide their workers with the more effective N95 mask. So right out of the gate they are dealing with the worst infections with inferior equipment. This is a major flaw in how our system is set up

Secondly, masks protect others from you. Not the other way around. If I have COVID and don't wear a mask but you do wear one, you have an 80% chance to get infected.

So while wearing a cloth mask, a worker in LTC may face a situation in which the patient is not wearing a mask. Such as changing an oxygen mask or through basic hygiene needs.

Lastly, when they gather for breaks or in the lunch room... they remove masks to eat and drink. It's a confined space. All it takes is one and in a building that is in an outbreak or has the virus present, that's a recipe for disaster.

and yep

Yes.

The virus is spread by droplets and aerosolized particles.

Let's do this.

I have Covid and I don't wear a mask. You are infection free you have a mask on.

I sneeze.

Your eyes are not protected by a mask. The particles can easily get into your body.

Another route for those droplets is through the mask. A double cloth mask will catch some of them but they are no where near as effective as an N95 Respirator which filters out the small particles. And "neck gaiters" are the least effective of all of them.

Wearing a double cloth mask in that scenario gives you an 8 in 10 chance of getting Covid.

Another factor is distance. Without a mask, my sneeze can travel up to 12 feet. With a mask, the droplets only go a few inches.

Now, assume you still have your mask. I have Covid and I wear one.

When I sneeze, I sneeze into the mask.

My mask catches quite a few of the particles and droplets but some will escape. However, the actual "viral load" of particles in the air is much lower. You may catch a stray particle in the eye but it likely not going to be significant enough to cause an infection. Or it may work it's way through your cloth mask but again, not in significant quantity to get you infected.

There's still a risk but it has been measured to be as low as 1.5%. So in absolute terms, if someone has Covid and is wearing a mask and you wear a mask, it's more effective than any vaccine in preventing transmission.

Does that help?

 

[Pookie]

They're still getting extra funded based off covid cases. You acknowledge and and spin it. You've been doing that this whole thread. Whatever you're trying trying argue. You're arguing in circles with yourself at this point

holy moly.....

.... what do you think happens to the “extra funding”?

that they get to keep it and deposit it into personal bank accounts? Divvy it up at the end of the year and buy Maseratis?

hint: that’s a no

 

[CanadasTeam]

holy moly.....

.... what do you think happens to the “extra funding”?

that they get to keep it and deposit it into personal bank accounts? Divvy it up at the end of the year and buy Maseratis?

hint: that’s a no

Lol, yeah it sounds like the non-profit are profiting!

 

[PromisedLand]

Prevalence of Chronic Diseases Among Canadian Adults - Canada.ca

2016 study says on avg 40% of Canadian 20+ population has one (or more) chronic disease

This is NOT a small number. Although, i think we are much better than 60% that CDC stated for US

 

[PromisedLand]

Paramedics warn of avoidable deaths as hundreds of emergencies wait hours for help

‘We’ve got patients dying because we’ve got nobody to send’

It is sad what is happening in London, England. I hope we learn from this. We are already almost at capacity and may have to triage if things dont get well.

But people not even making it to the hospital because not enough ambulance and paramedics available is just heart breaking. I really hope we dont come to this in Ontario and rest of Canada.

 

[The CyNick]

In Wuhan, it seems it was the combo of very tight borders with enforced quarantine, as well as putting everyone pretty much under house arrest.

Do you trust numbers out of CHINA??

 

[KuleminFan41]

Wow that’s a crazy lockdown. That would never work here. I couldn’t imagine not being able to leave my home let alone being stuck inside during the day. We’re all outside enjoying the outdoors every chance we get here.

Just a correction, the lockdown started on November 24th, so its been 6 weeks exactly. But yeh, its an intense lockdown and the funny thing is, the numbers were on a bit of a downward trajectory shortly after, however, they got their highest numbers in weeks on December 30th, 31st and January 1st. Which doesn't exactly make a ton of sense to me.

In Wuhan, it seems it was the combo of very tight borders with enforced quarantine, as well as putting everyone pretty much under house arrest.

Man, I don't know. I don't really trust anything coming out of China , especially after all this crap started. I know where I'm from in Portugal(Azores specifically), they closed off all boarders between villages and towns but the numbers , I don't think haven't exactly gotten much better. So, I don't know if I want to trust how effective China's methods are.

 

[hoglund]

Do you trust numbers out of CHINA??

I don't.

 

[Scion]

well said.

approx 9-10% of all Covid cases end up in hospital.

This post is misleading without providing appropriate context. Patients under the age of 50 very rarely require hospitalization. The total percentage of hospitalizaions is also likely alot lower in reality because it does not factor the number of covid cases who never get tested because they are asymptomatic.

 

[Jojalu]

This post is misleading without providing appropriate context. Patients under the age of 50 very rarely require hospitalization. The total percentage of hospitalizaions is also likely alot lower in reality because it does not factor the number of covid cases who never get tested because they are asymptomatic.

While over 50 is higher it still is over 7% for those 40-49 and over 5% for those 30-39, 3.4 percent for those 20-29 and 1.6 percent 0-19.

Asymptomatic cases would lower those numbers but so far antibody tests have shown that it isn't as much as initially assumed.

 

[Pookie]

This post is misleading without providing appropriate context. Patients under the age of 50 very rarely require hospitalization. The total percentage of hospitalizaions is also likely alot lower in reality because it does not factor the number of covid cases who never get tested because they are asymptomatic.

sorry dude, that’s all we have... that’s total confirmed Covid cases, all ages from Jan through Oct of 2020 in Ontario.

9.3% of ALL cases end up in hospital.

https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-report-en-2020-10-09.pdf

Perhaps the total number of cases is more based on asymptomatic cases and maybe the % gets lowered as a result of changing the denominator. Fair point.

But notwithstanding, if 9-10% of total RECORDED cases end up in hospital... and we (Ontario) are running 2000-3000 cases a day.... you will have 200-300 going to hospital per day. And staying for multiple days.

it’s easy to see how you can run out of beds and stress the system.

 

[Muston Atthews]

it’s not even that he left the country, who cares, the hypocrisy though “Stay home and save lives”

 

[HolyCrap]

Chinese are still not allowing WHO inside to investigate the origins of the virus. That tells me everything I need to know. It smelled fishy from the start.

 

[Pookie]

"Ontario reported the highest number of hospitalizations since the pandemic began with 1,347 people hospitalized with COVID-19 (up by 157 from the previous day), with 352 patients in an intensive care unit (up by 19) and 245 patients in ICUs on a ventilator (up by 51).”

Ontario reports 3,128 new coronavirus cases, more than 1,300 people hospitalized

In hot zone areas, hospitals are at capacity. Surgery cancellation has begun and patients are being transferred to out of town hospitals as a temporary overflow.

we have a record number of ICU patients

Ontario has hit a new high for COVID patients in the ICU — and experts say it’s ‘not even close to the peak’

 

[Pookie]

In other news,

Los Angeles has called in the US Army Corp of Engineers to figure out how to get oxygen to all hospital patients (Covid and non-Covid) without running out.

Amid 'viral tsunami,' Army Corps of Engineers will aid L.A. hospitals facing oxygen problems

 

[Nineteen67]

it’s not even that he left the country, who cares, the hypocrisy though “Stay home and save lives”

When you see so many experts that have somehow changed their talking points about the science they’ve believed for years (Fauci is a prime example) then you add public health officials not practicing what they preach it makes people raise their brow and question authority.