Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part X

[Muston Atthews]

@Throw More Waffles - I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to argue.

Wear a mask. Stay within your household. Wash hands. Take the vaccine when it’s your turn.

when that all happens, the economy will recover and fewer people will suffer.

simple stuff.

And hope you don’t have any bills to pay. Or if you do, hopefully you have a rainy da- er year long fund

 

[Pookie]

And hope you don’t have any bills to pay. Or if you do, hopefully you have a rainy da- er year long fund

well if you’d wear a mask and take the advice seriously... maybe neither of my kids would have been laid off.

 

[Pookie]

Yes, staying isolated in your household is what works. Take a vaccine when available.

Everything else accomplishes nothing. Wuhan wore masks and socially distanced and they had to crash build hospitals overnight. These measures don't work.

I've never had this properly addressed. "If everyone just wore masks things would be a lot better". But literally everyone in Wuhan wore masks and they crash built hospitals overnight. Why won't anyone ever address this?

I will.

people don’t wear masks all the time.

I’ll give you a local Toronto example.

There is asymptomatic spread in toronto schools. Eg. Thorncliffe Park Public School did a voluntary Test of all kids and it turned up 19 positive cases in kids that were asymptomatic.

under current protocols, you can go to school if you don’t have symptoms. You also don’t need a test.

but you return home, at night.

and as vigilant as many of us are.... I know I don’t wear a mask in my home.

it’s one think to wear a mask at the Loblaws. We can greatly reduce the risk of transmission.

but at home, with people outside our households.... the spread continues.

I will throw a question to you.

the virus is deadly. It spreads. A new variant is here in Canada that makes it more likely to transmit.

what’s your solution to control it?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I will.

people don’t wear masks all the time.

I’ll give you a local Toronto example.

There is asymptomatic spread in toronto schools. Eg. Thorncliffe Park Public School did a voluntary Test of all kids and it turned up 19 positive cases in kids that were asymptomatic.

under current protocols, you can go to school if you don’t have symptoms. You also don’t need a test.

but you return home, at night.

and as vigilant as many of us are.... I know I don’t wear a mask in my home.

it’s one think to wear a mask at the Loblaws. We can greatly reduce the risk of transmission.

but at home, with people outside our households.... the spread continues.

I will throw a question to you.

the virus is deadly. It spreads. A new variant is here in Canada that makes it more likely to transmit.

what’s your solution to control it?

My point is that Wuhan is a collectivist mask wearing culture. Clearly not the same "individualist" "what about my freedoms" culture as in the west. Half measures in Wuhan (like masks and social distancing) accomplished NOTHING. They crash built new hospitals overnight. That's how little those things accomplished.

So when you say "People have themselves to blame for not following the rules", I'll counter by saying that literally everyone DID follow the rules in Wuhan, and it accomplished nothing.

Half-measures don't work, as Wuhan showed us. It's not about people following the rules or not.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yes, staying isolated in your household is what works. Take a vaccine when available.

Everything else accomplishes nothing. Wuhan wore masks and socially distanced and they had to crash build hospitals overnight. These measures don't work.

I've never had this properly addressed. "If everyone just wore masks things would be a lot better". But literally everyone in Wuhan wore masks and they crash built hospitals overnight. Why won't anyone ever address this?

People in Wuhan only wore masks days before their shut down, when their hospitals were already overloaded.
Look at Taiwan and see how life in that Country. Not saying wearing masks is the be all end all but it does help.
I just don’t see why people are against it like it hurts them emotionally, physically and spiritually.

 

[nsleaf]

Huh? What on earth does that mean?

Why on earth does mask wearing and quickly building hospital beds need to be addressed?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

People in Wuhan only wore masks days before their shut down, when their hospitals were already overloaded.
Look at Taiwan and see how life in that Country. Not saying wearing masks is the be all end all but it does help.
I just don’t see why people are against it like it hurts them emotionally, physically and spiritually.

What on earth? Wuhan is an east Asian mask-wearing culture. Masks aren't a new fad there starting with covid. An incredibly ignorant thing to say.

The moment covid was a mere rumor in Wuhan, as a mask-wearing culture they all masked up. They all did the same long before with sars, h1n1, bad flu seasons, the list goes on. There is a LONG history/culture of this. To try and deny that culture to win an argument seems pretty silly.

See what's happening here? In order to "win" people are now denying that Wuhan (and china at large) was already a massively pro mask wearing culture.

Can we have a good faith discussion about this? Let's not lie about Wuhan (lol) not wearing masks.

They DID wear masks. And it didn't help in the slightest. Why? Seriously, why? Is that not something important that should be discussed, as opposed to lying about?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Why on earth does mask wearing and quickly building hospital beds need to be addressed?

Pookie said that if everyone just followed the rules and wore masks and such, that covid would be much better under control. I'm pointing out that in Wuhan, everyone DID wear masks and followed the rules... yet their hospitals were still so flooded with covid that they had to build new hospitals overnight.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

well if you’d wear a mask and take the advice seriously... maybe neither of my kids would have been laid off.

Everyone in Wuhan wore masks and took things seriously. They still did full freaking HOUSE ARREST on everyone. Your argument makes no sense.

 

[Gabriel426]

What on earth? Wuhan is an east Asian mask-wearing culture. Masks aren't a new fad there starting with covid. An incredibly ignorant thing to say.

The moment covid was a mere rumor in Wuhan, as a mask-wearing culture they all masked up. They all did the same long before with sars, h1n1, bad flu seasons, the list goes on. There is a LONG history/culture of this. To try and deny that culture to win an argument seems pretty silly.

See what's happening here? In order to "win" people are now denying that Wuhan (and china at large) was already a massively pro mask wearing culture.

Can we have a good faith discussion about this? Let's not lie about Wuhan (lol) not wearing masks.

They DID wear masks. And it didn't help in the slightest. Why? Seriously, why? Is that not something important that should be discussed, as opposed to lying about?

Have you been to Wuhan or any countries in the Far East? It is true that they wear masks but they don’t wear masks like wearing a jacket in Winter.
People wear masks when they are coughing or sneezing. The population didn’t really start all wearing masks until days before announcement of the lockdown.
The so called rumor was already weeks or even months into the first case/patient zero, and the doctor who tried to warn the World ended up signing a confession stating he made that up and there was no virus by the govt and ended up treating patients, ultimately getting COVID and died in late Jan 2020.
Lastly, I was living in HK during SARS as well as H1N1. During SARS, the whole population didn’t wear masks till one building in a complex got hit hard(evacuation of residents in that building to an isolated camp). To think that people in the Far East all wore masks from the beginning of COVID is unrealistic.

Like I said, masks work, just take a look at Taiwan.

You sound like someone who knows COVID is not a common flu but yet you are overly against wearing masks. I just don’t understand that.

 

[Muston Atthews]

well if you’d wear a mask and take the advice seriously... maybe neither of my kids would have been laid off.

the majority of the population wears a mask, socially distances and washes/sanitizes their hands.

and yet here we are still locked down

 

[Confucius]

this is such an easy concept. I’m not sure why it’s flying over heads.

It's not enough and it's not working, I'd think everyone would understand that.

We can't have lineups for coffee, Donuts and burgers. Nevermind subjecting the employees to hundreds of customers daily. Handling of cash, who knows how many hands those bills went through that day? In addition, those essential employees are contributing to the overcrowding of buses. The crowded buses will get worse as it does every winter.

Close down the small retailers but allow the large ones to pickup the slack. Hey lets corral everybody into one location. Let's have public skating, city run ofcourse, there are no worries just put on a mask.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Have you been to Wuhan or any countries in the Far East? It is true that they wear masks but they don’t wear masks like wearing a jacket in Winter.
People wear masks when they are coughing or sneezing. The population didn’t really start all wearing masks until days before announcement of the lockdown.
The so called rumor was already weeks or even months into the first case/patient zero, and the doctor who tried to warn the World ended up signing a confession stating he made that up and there was no virus by the govt and ended up treating patients, ultimately getting COVID and died in late Jan 2020.
Lastly, I was living in HK during SARS as well as H1N1. During SARS, the whole population didn’t wear masks till one building in a complex got hit hard(evacuation of residents in that building to an isolated camp). To think that people in the Far East all wore masks from the beginning of COVID is unrealistic.

Like I said, masks work, just take a look at Taiwan.

You sound like someone who knows COVID is not a common flu but yet you are overly against wearing masks. I just don’t understand that.

During pandemics they DO wear masks like wearing a jacket in winter. Starting with sars.

And there was flat out hysteria in Wuhan during the early days of covid. News reports flat out *hoarding* of masks as early as early December. Almost 2 months later they were crash building hospitals. Doesn't add up.

And I'm not saying that "everyone in Asia" masked up in early December. But Wuhan? The epicenter? Do you know the mayhem that was spreading on wechat? They were terrified. They masked up. People were organizing shipping more masks to Wuhan because so many were getting them/wearing them. By early January, Hong Kong had as well gone berserk in trying to get masks.

This is what really puzzles me... It's indisputable that they masked up early in wuhan. So shouldn't this be a legitimate discussion about why they didn't help, as oppose to lying about their culture?

Taiwan, btw, closed their borders REALLY early and had strict/enforced quarantine rules. High success rates in keeping it OUT is what worked. Not masks.

 

[Gabriel426]

During pandemics they DO wear masks like wearing a jacket in winter. Starting with sars.

And there was flat out hysteria in Wuhan during the early days of covid. News reports flat out *hoarding* of masks as early as early December. Almost 2 months later they were crash building hospitals. Doesn't add up.

And I'm not saying that "everyone in Asia" masked up in early December. But Wuhan? The epicenter? Do you know the mayhem that was spreading on wechat? They were terrified. They masked up. People were organizing shipping more masks to Wuhan because so many were getting them/wearing them. By early January, Hong Kong had as well gone berserk in trying to get masks.

This is what really puzzles me... It's indisputable that they masked up early in wuhan. So shouldn't this be a legitimate discussion about why they didn't help, as oppose to lying about their culture?

1. They didn’t all wore masks in Wuhan starting in Dec.
2. People were hoarding preparing for something like SARS but not wearing them like jacket in Winter.
3. Your question masks, spread and Wuhan is a sound question but if you look at Taiwan, and Hong Kong even S.Korea and Japan, wearing masks is helping them to contain the spread as well as having a much better system in contact tracing.
For example, HK is literally implementing shutdown rules similar to BC and Ont when their numbers are in the 50s.

Personally, a lot of factors were in play due to the spread in Wuhan, hotpot dinner being one, not everyone was treating this as serious as they should, not washing hands.

The thing is we can agree that Wuhan was ground zero and looked bad, let’s assume they were wearing Masks from the get go, do you think it would be worse if they didn’t wore masks or just be the same.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

1. They didn’t all wore masks in Wuhan starting in Dec.
2. People were hoarding preparing for something like SARS but not wearing them like jacket in Winter.
3. Your question masks, spread and Wuhan is a sound question but if you look at Taiwan, and Hong Kong even S.Korea and Japan, wearing masks is helping them to contain the spread as well as having a much better system in contact tracing.
For example, HK is literally implementing shutdown rules similar to BC and Ont when their numbers are in the 50s.

Personally, a lot of factors were in play due to the spread in Wuhan, hotpot dinner being one, not everyone was treating this as serious as they should, not washing hands.

The thing is we can agree that Wuhan was ground zero and looked bad, let’s assume they were wearing Masks from the get go, do you think it would be worse if they didn’t wore masks or just be the same.

I think everyone has a greatly exaggerated understanding of mask effectiveness. This is largely because covid spreads so much via aerosols which non N-95 masks don't prevent in the slightest.

But because covid can also spread via droplets, masks are at least partly effective against that, so they slightly help overall.

So when people like Pookie say that if only people followed the rules, his kids would still have jobs... I simply point to Wuhan. (that's what started this wuhan discussion.) They DID follow the rules. They DID mask up very early when covid was a terrifying rumor on wechat (you being in denial of that notwithstanding). It didn't really help. Like, at ALL.

What did help? Literal house arrest for every citizen. The half measures accomplish very little, so they aren't worth the negative side effects (economically) they create. Half measures didn't work at all in Wuhan.

What further confuses things is that the countries that just happen to be pro mask are also the countries that closed their borders very early and had stricter quarantine rules. So it's difficult to separate those 3 factors.

I do know that in March, literally nobody was wearing masks in Vancouver. Half the people were wearing them by early Summer. Everyone... literally EVERYONE was wearing them by September. And that's when covid cases were highest. September to Decmeber, when literally everyone was masked up.

Let's also add that the "science" about mask effectiveness changed overnight when they became a political issue in America during an election year. All of a sudden it was "Hey, we've been wrong about mask effectiveness for centuries... but we're right now. Wear masks".

There also isn't nearly as much scientific consensus on mask effectiveness as the media leads you to belive. The Center for Infectious Disease Research And Policy makes similar claims that I do. Mask effectiveness became exaggerated once it became a political issue in America.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/special_episode_masks_6.2.20_0.pdf

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

It's not enough and it's not working, I'd think everyone would understand that.

We can't have lineups for coffee, Donuts and burgers. Nevermind subjecting the employees to hundreds of customers daily. Handling of cash, who knows how many hands those bills went through that day? In addition, those essential employees are contributing to the overcrowding of buses. The crowded buses will get worse as it does every winter.

Close down the small retailers but allow the large ones to pickup the slack. Hey lets corral everybody into one location. Let's have public skating, city run ofcourse, there are no worries just put on a mask.

Won't someone think of the rich? They've only earned tens of billions in profit since January.

 

[Pookie]

It's not enough and it's not working, I'd think everyone would understand that.

We can't have lineups for coffee, Donuts and burgers. Nevermind subjecting the employees to hundreds of customers daily. Handling of cash, who knows how many hands those bills went through that day? In addition, those essential employees are contributing to the overcrowding of buses. The crowded buses will get worse as it does every winter.

Close down the small retailers but allow the large ones to pickup the slack. Hey lets corral everybody into one location. Let's have public skating, city run ofcourse, there are no worries just put on a mask.

Well the fact that is isn't enough... and that 85 million Americans travelled over Christmas... and Tucker Carlson and Ingrid whatever her name is said they hope people disregard Fauci's advice is why we have a lockdown now.

Again, you are wasting energy.

I would love the ski hills to be open. I wore a mask... rode the chair by myself or with my wife when she went with me. We distanced in line. Wore goggles. My kids worked at the resort and are now off until the 23rd at least.

Would totally love it. I could argue with you about how the ski hills should be open. Mental health and physical exercise outside in a low risk environment.

But it's wasted energy. They are closed. Likely because nut jobs from different families would travel together in a vehicle with the windows up for hours and the virus would run it's way through them and the parents they live with.

It makes no sense to close a small business but allow Walmart to stay open. We can discuss that too. Of course, the emergence of online shopping was hitting retail hard well BEFORE Covid but that's another story.

But at the end of the day, it's done. That's the plan we are going with.

The solution isn't to allow these closed places to open.

The solution is to get the vaccine into our arms as soon as is possible. It's to challenge anti-vaxers wherever they may be and in the interim, knock this curve out so that these small businesses can open for a period of time until the spread is significant again. It's a yo yo until the vaccination program reaches 86% acceptance amongst the 16+ age group

 

[Nineteen67]

Well the fact that is isn't enough... and that 85 million Americans travelled over Christmas... and Tucker Carlson and Ingrid whatever her name is said they hope people disregard Fauci's advice is why we have a lockdown now.

Again, you are wasting energy.

I would love the ski hills to be open. I wore a mask... rode the chair by myself or with my wife when she went with me. We distanced in line. Wore goggles. My kids worked at the resort and are now off until the 23rd at least.

Would totally love it. I could argue with you about how the ski hills should be open. Mental health and physical exercise outside in a low risk environment.

But it's wasted energy. They are closed. Likely because nut jobs from different families would travel together in a vehicle with the windows up for hours and the virus would run it's way through them and the parents they live with.

It makes no sense to close a small business but allow Walmart to stay open. We can discuss that too. Of course, the emergence of online shopping was hitting retail hard well BEFORE Covid but that's another story.

But at the end of the day, it's done. That's the plan we are going with.

The solution isn't to allow these closed places to open.

The solution is to get the vaccine into our arms as soon as is possible. It's to challenge anti-vaxers wherever they may be and in the interim, knock this curve out so that these small businesses can open for a period of time until the spread is significant again. It's a yo yo until the vaccination program reaches 86% acceptance amongst the 16+ age group

Where do you live?

 

[Pookie]

Where do you live?

Ontario

 

[Muston Atthews]

Well the fact that is isn't enough... and that 85 million Americans travelled over Christmas... and Tucker Carlson and Ingrid whatever her name is said they hope people disregard Fauci's advice is why we have a lockdown now.

Again, you are wasting energy.

I would love the ski hills to be open. I wore a mask... rode the chair by myself or with my wife when she went with me. We distanced in line. Wore goggles. My kids worked at the resort and are now off until the 23rd at least.

Would totally love it. I could argue with you about how the ski hills should be open. Mental health and physical exercise outside in a low risk environment.

But it's wasted energy. They are closed. Likely because nut jobs from different families would travel together in a vehicle with the windows up for hours and the virus would run it's way through them and the parents they live with.

It makes no sense to close a small business but allow Walmart to stay open. We can discuss that too. Of course, the emergence of online shopping was hitting retail hard well BEFORE Covid but that's another story.

But at the end of the day, it's done. That's the plan we are going with.

The solution isn't to allow these closed places to open.

The solution is to get the vaccine into our arms as soon as is possible. It's to challenge anti-vaxers wherever they may be and in the interim, knock this curve out so that these small businesses can open for a period of time until the spread is significant again. It's a yo yo until the vaccination program reaches 86% acceptance amongst the 16+ age group

you drive in the middle of the winter with your windows? Covid doesn’t stand a chance against you.

And you want ski hills to be open... but only for people who are near by? Nice

 

[nsleaf]

Pookie said that if everyone just followed the rules and wore masks and such, that covid would be much better under control. I'm pointing out that in Wuhan, everyone DID wear masks and followed the rules... yet their hospitals were still so flooded with covid that they had to build new hospitals overnight.

That's quite the stretch W W. Us on earth would disagree.

 

[Pookie]

you drive in the middle of the winter with your windows? Covid doesn’t stand a chance against you.

And you want ski hills to be open... but only for people who are near by? Nice

I’m disappointed ski hills are closed.

but I accept it as necessary.

not a single word of what I wrote is how you spun it.

wear a mask. Stay home. And if you can’t do either.... volunteer to get Covid so we can study you.

 

[Pookie]

I think everyone has a greatly exaggerated understanding of mask effectiveness. This is largely because covid spreads so much via aerosols which non N-95 masks don't prevent in the slightest.

But because covid can also spread via droplets, masks are at least partly effective against that, so they slightly help overall.

So when people like Pookie say that if only people followed the rules, his kids would still have jobs... I simply point to Wuhan. (that's what started this wuhan discussion.) They DID follow the rules. They DID mask up very early when covid was a terrifying rumor on wechat (you being in denial of that notwithstanding). It didn't really help. Like, at ALL.

What did help? Literal house arrest for every citizen. The half measures accomplish very little, so they aren't worth the negative side effects (economically) they create. Half measures didn't work at all in Wuhan.

What further confuses things is that the countries that just happen to be pro mask are also the countries that closed their borders very early and had stricter quarantine rules. So it's difficult to separate those 3 factors.

I do know that in March, literally nobody was wearing masks in Vancouver. Half the people were wearing them by early Summer. Everyone... literally EVERYONE was wearing them by September. And that's when covid cases were highest. September to Decmeber, when literally everyone was masked up.

Let's also add that the "science" about mask effectiveness changed overnight when they became a political issue in America during an election year. All of a sudden it was "Hey, we've been wrong about mask effectiveness for centuries... but we're right now. Wear masks".

There also isn't nearly as much scientific consensus on mask effectiveness as the media leads you to belive. The Center for Infectious Disease Research And Policy makes similar claims that I do. Mask effectiveness became exaggerated once it became a political issue in America.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/special_episode_masks_6.2.20_0.pdf

two things that I can gather from your posts.

you really don’t seem to understand the science behind mask use which demonstrates an effectiveness against the spread of virus, including Covid 19.

The early advice about the public not wearing masks was largely based on a mask shortage for front line workers. The greater good would be to ensure that those that treat us have masks.

These are separate issues. Masks work. And they were in short supply so needed to go to the place that could use them the most.

please don’t confuse these issues.

mask wearing was politicized. Correct. By those who felt it was an affront to their freedoms.

yet ironically drive on the correct side of the road, wear seat belts, stop at red lights and if they own a restaurant... ensure that the chicken is cooked to safe guidelines and don’t allows rats to live in their cupboards.

masks aren’t 100%. Neither are vaccines. But both will be effective and any narrative against them is both counterproductive and morally bankrupt.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think everyone has a greatly exaggerated understanding of mask effectiveness. This is largely because covid spreads so much via aerosols which non N-95 masks don't prevent in the slightest.

But because covid can also spread via droplets, masks are at least partly effective against that, so they slightly help overall.

So when people like Pookie say that if only people followed the rules, his kids would still have jobs... I simply point to Wuhan. (that's what started this wuhan discussion.) They DID follow the rules. They DID mask up very early when covid was a terrifying rumor on wechat (you being in denial of that notwithstanding). It didn't really help. Like, at ALL.

What did help? Literal house arrest for every citizen. The half measures accomplish very little, so they aren't worth the negative side effects (economically) they create. Half measures didn't work at all in Wuhan.

What further confuses things is that the countries that just happen to be pro mask are also the countries that closed their borders very early and had stricter quarantine rules. So it's difficult to separate those 3 factors.

I do know that in March, literally nobody was wearing masks in Vancouver. Half the people were wearing them by early Summer. Everyone... literally EVERYONE was wearing them by September. And that's when covid cases were highest. September to Decmeber, when literally everyone was masked up.

Let's also add that the "science" about mask effectiveness changed overnight when they became a political issue in America during an election year. All of a sudden it was "Hey, we've been wrong about mask effectiveness for centuries... but we're right now. Wear masks".

There also isn't nearly as much scientific consensus on mask effectiveness as the media leads you to belive. The Center for Infectious Disease Research And Policy makes similar claims that I do. Mask effectiveness became exaggerated once it became a political issue in America.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/special_episode_masks_6.2.20_0.pdf

Masks work but it is not the be all end all.
It needs other ways like social distancing, no more social gatherings.... Heck even lock down or shut down won’t work if people continue to visit others at home and treat COVID like a joke.

You kept citing Wuhan and yet you avoid answering my question, if as you said people in Wuhan were all wearing masks and yet they became ground zero, do you think they would have been better off without masks or just the same or worse. If you believe Masks don’t work, you will say it will be the same
but if you believe masks work, then Wuhan might be worse off without masks.
You kept citing Wuhan while ignoring Taiwan.
As for what Pookie said about following Rules, he is not wrong as most people don’t really follow rules. For example, there is a speeding limit on every road, do all people drive under the speed limit? Would driving under the speed limit means no more car accident? Just from my rough observation, going to work and stuff, I would say around 70% of people wear masks on the streets, now do they have masks in bags(I don’t know), that’s at least 30% might not have masks.

I agree that half measures don’t work, and the things that piss me of the most in Canada or at the very least in BC is the protocols and contact tracing.
Like if you are living in the same household as someone who tested positive, you will not get tested unless you show symptoms, plus you are free to go to work, school or whatever. Not sure about you but I think that’s not a good way to contain the spread. When it comes to contact tracing, it is close to non existent. For example, my friend in Hong Kong and everyone at his office were tested because someone at their office building(in a different company) was tested positive. When it comes to quarantine after landing, it is mandatory in HK with daily tracking and messaging.
As for the rise in numbers in Vancouver, I just think it had to do with schools reopening, and the crappy protocols I just mentioned.

Going to give you one more example about masks. Two of three my sister colleagues, who were dusting prints and evidences at a suspect home ended up getting COVID bc the suspect was tested positive, the one who didn’t get COVID was the only one wearing mask.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Masks work but it is not the be all end all.
It needs other ways like social distancing, no more social gatherings.... Heck even lock down or shut down won’t work if people continue to visit others at home and treat COVID like a joke.

You kept citing Wuhan and yet you avoid answering my question, if as you said people in Wuhan were all wearing masks and yet they became ground zero, do you think they would have been better off without masks or just the same or worse. If you believe Masks don’t work, you will say it will be the same
but if you believe masks work, then Wuhan might be worse off without masks.
You kept citing Wuhan while ignoring Taiwan.
As for what Pookie said about following Rules, he is not wrong as most people don’t really follow rules. For example, there is a speeding limit on every road, do all people drive under the speed limit? Would driving under the speed limit means no more car accident? Just from my rough observation, going to work and stuff, I would say around 70% of people wear masks on the streets, now do they have masks in bags(I don’t know), that’s at least 30% might not have masks.

I agree that half measures don’t work, and the things that piss me of the most in Canada or at the very least in BC is the protocols and contact tracing.
Like if you are living in the same household as someone who tested positive, you will not get tested unless you show symptoms, plus you are free to go to work, school or whatever. Not sure about you but I think that’s not a good way to contain the spread. When it comes to contact tracing, it is close to non existent. For example, my friend in Hong Kong and everyone at his office were tested because someone at their office building(in a different company) was tested positive. When it comes to quarantine after landing, it is mandatory in HK with daily tracking and messaging.
As for the rise in numbers in Vancouver, I just think it had to do with schools reopening, and the crappy protocols I just mentioned.

Going to give you one more example about masks. Two of three my sister colleagues, who were dusting prints and evidences at a suspect home ended up getting COVID bc the suspect was tested positive, the one who didn’t get COVID was the only one wearing mask.

I’ll give you an example of my own. I wear my mask for 12+ hours at work, when I go out I wear a mask and even when I visit my parents I wear a mask. I still got COVID.

If we’re tossing out baseless anecdotes