Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part X

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't think kids will go back to school until after March Break at the earliest.

Yeah probably with Trudeau taking da political stance on everything yes. It is like when you decide to throw down go for broke. Don't go into battle half cocked. You fight to hurt. You shut down and invest everything, all resources and all $$$, on massive SUPER FAST vaccination program. Then we can get make to normal very fast.

Either that or open everything up and carry on as usual and deal with death and hospitalizations. These half measure are not for me. To me lets stamp it out. We need real leaders. But again we don't.

 

[Pookie]

Once again, that's because those diseases aren't contagious. If heart attacks were contagious I'm sure we'd have more measures to control them.



Projecting.





It doesn't matter if the majority of people don't have adverse effects. The danger is that those who have minimal reactions then spread it to vulnerable populations who could have adverse reactions. Can't believe people still don't understand this a year into the pandemic. That or they just don't care about those populations. The latter is most likely.



We do this. That's why millions is spent in public health annually to promote healthy living.





The success in Australia and NZ in implementing Lockdowns and controlling covid when it reappears says otherwise to your claim about the success of lockdowns. And you totally misunderstand how life expectancy works. Just because someone is 70+ doesn't mean they're at the end of their life, many are in good health. And yeah mask off on you saying you think these people are disposable.

it’s a losing cause.

Rationalization and denial are so strong with a minority of the population you’ll just never get through.

they blame fear or doctors for closing down businesses but can’t see that its their own selfish actions that have contributed to the spread and have cost livelihoods.

fortunately, there is a vaccine on the way.

and if these folks want to not take one, it’s just a matter of time before Darwin’s theory takes hold.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

UGH!!

I hope that is not the case

Me neither, but none of it adds up. The province wide lockdown is until January 23rd, but kids are slated to go back in class on January 11th? Makes absolutely no sense. They'll just keep pushing it back. If the case numbers drop a bit, they'll say the kids not being in school is helping with that. If the case numbers continue on their steady pace, they'll say sending the kids back to school will cause another spike. So it's a lose-lose either way.

I think they should be going back to school on January 4th and proceeding as normally as can be. But I honestly think things will be paused until at least mid-March now in many facets (school, retail/mall workers, stores forced to do curbside pickup, etc.).

 

[Pink Mist]

You do realize Toronto has been locked down well over a month and they are setting record numbers as each day goes by.

Aside from today Toronto's numbers have been steady. They hadn't really increased at all since being locked down

 

[Confucius]

Aside from today Toronto's numbers have been steady. They hadn't really increased at all since being locked down

the day toronto announced lockdown (Nov 20th 393 cases) today (Dec 29th 895) we didn't get here overnight from 393. The day lockdown took effect, Nov 23rd, 363 cases.

 

[Pink Mist]

the day toronto announced lockdown (Nov 20th 393 cases) today (Dec 29th 895) we didn't get here overnight from 393

Cool, November 21 was 451 cases and yesterday was 412 cases in Toronto.

My point is that the cases have been steady and have not going up exponentially like they would without restrictions, there's a clear slow in the growth of new cases

 

[Pookie]

the day toronto announced lockdown (Nov 20th 393 cases) today (Dec 29th 895) we didn't get here overnight from 393

Nope. Here's how you got there:

Source: COVID-19: Status of Cases in Toronto

Perhaps now there can be an informed discussion about why the advice not to travel or limit close contacts to households only? Or why businesses that encourage social contact have been shutdown (including ski hills which sucks massively) or limited to curbside pick up only?

 

[Confucius]

Cool, November 21 was 451 cases and yesterday was 412 cases in Toronto.

My point is that the cases have been steady and have not going up exponentially like they would without restrictions, there's a clear slow in the growth of new cases

If you don't want to admit the numbers are generally trending up, I understand.

 

[Pink Mist]

If you don't want to admit the numbers are generally trending up, I understand.

Yes, at a slower rate than what one would expect without a lockdown. How hard is this to understand?

 

[Confucius]

Yes, at a slower rate than what one would expect without a lockdown. How hard is this to understand?

629 on Dec 23rd, 636 Dec 22nd. If you call a 50% increase in about 3 weeks, slowing down, I understand. I feel it's not good enough.

 

[stealth1]

629 on Dec 23rd, 636 Dec 22nd. If you call a 50% increase in about 3 weeks, slowing down, I understand. I feel it's not good enough.

I'm hopeful it will start dropping soon. Judging by here in Niagara the lockdown is working as there is less people out and about. I was out yesterday getting a few groceries and it was dead. I think people may start to get the message.

 

[Confucius]

I'm hopeful it will start dropping soon. Judging by here in Niagara the lockdown is working as there is less people out and about. I was out yesterday getting a few groceries and it was dead. I think people may start to get the message.

There is less people up and about in Toronto as well. Unfortunately still too many to slow the spread. Half measures don't work. Hopefully it works for Niagara, we will see.

 

[Pink Mist]

629 on Dec 23rd, 636 Dec 22nd. If you call a 50% increase in about 3 weeks, slowing down, I understand. I feel it's not good enough.

Its a virus that spreads exponentially and considering the modelling had Toronto at a lot worse, yes.

 

[Future]

Its a virus that spreads exponentially and considering the modelling had Toronto at a lot worse, yes.

The modeling has been laughably wrong since the start of the pandemic, and in most cases, it hasn’t even been close.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

it’s a losing cause.

Rationalization and denial are so strong with a minority of the population you’ll just never get through.

they blame fear or doctors for closing down businesses but can’t see that its their own selfish actions that have contributed to the spread and have cost livelihoods.

fortunately, there is a vaccine on the way.

and if these folks want to not take one, it’s just a matter of time before Darwin’s theory takes hold.

Their own selfish actions cause this? What selfish actions? Everyone in Wuhan masked up in December. It was already a mask wearing culture. Nobody questioned masks. 6 weeks later the hospitals were so full that they crash built new hospitals overnight.

These measures (masks and such) help a little and do flatten the curve a bit. But to suggest "things would be 100% fine if we just followed the rules and everything would be back open" is factually incorrect.

 

[Pookie]

So the virus that has a 99% recovery rate and predominantly kills the elderly is going to mow through people that don't take the vaccine is it, has it morphed into the bubonic plague overnight?

Darwinism at it's finest

Do you actually think about this stuff or just spout complete bull**** as a default setting?

Not sure what is sadder... this or the fact it got likes.

1. Not dead does not mean "recovered"

The NHS in England reported that close to 45% of people admitted to hospital require ongoing support with at least 5% having symptoms that last greater than 8 weeks.

Source: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3981​

2. 1% is both an incorrect and "rationalized" number but I will play. If 1% of the Canadian population got COVID and died, that would be 380,000 in people in one year.

More than Cancer (80,152) + Heart Disease (52,541) + Accidents ..... actually you know what's interesting?

In a given year, about 270,000 Canadians die every year from ALL causes.

So COVID would kill more people than ANY other cause combined in a single year.
​

 

[Pookie]

Their own selfish actions cause this? What selfish actions? Everyone in Wuhan masked up in December. It was already a mask wearing culture. Nobody questioned masks. 6 weeks later the hospitals were so full that they crash built new hospitals overnight.

These measures (masks and such) help a little and do flatten the curve a bit. But to suggest "things would be 100% fine if we just followed the rules and everything would be back open" is factually incorrect.

The bulk of spread is from close contact.

We know that in cases where one person has COVID but both are wearing a mask, the risk of transmission is 1.5%. Better than any vaccine.

Those not wearing masks contribute to the spread. Some of those reasons may not be selfish. But a quick google of anti-mask protests will surely point you in the direction of selfishness.

And yes, things will go back to normal once we follow the rules which includes 86% of us over the age of 16 taking the vaccine.... annually.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The bulk of spread is from close contact.

We know that in cases where one person has COVID but both are wearing a mask, the risk of transmission is 1.5%. Better than any vaccine.

Those not wearing masks contribute to the spread. Some of those reasons may not be selfish. But a quick google of anti-mask protests will surely point you in the direction of selfishness.

And yes, things will go back to normal once we follow the rules which includes 86% of us over the age of 16 taking the vaccine.... annually.

The only thing that worked in Wuhan was literal house arrest for everybody. Everyone wearing masks but cramming into malls resulted in hospitals being crash built overnight. The other countries that saw success closed their borders really early with very long quarantine rules that were enforced. In other words, "keeping it out entirely" was successful... but once it was in and spreading everywhere, half-measures were ineffective.

The wuhan example will never go away and will always counter your arguments. They are NOT "western" individualists who demand "freedoms". They are more collective and follow the rules. They all wore masks. They all social distanced. It accomplished next to nothing. Hospitals built overnight. Litearl house arrest for everyone worked. You ignoring this direct evidence shows that you're more interested in narrative than truth.

 

[Pink Mist]

The modeling has been laughably wrong since the start of the pandemic, and in most cases, it hasn’t even been close.

Yes, because the rate of transmission has reduced due to restrictions.

 

[Pookie]

@Throw More Waffles - I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to argue.

Wear a mask. Stay within your household. Wash hands. Take the vaccine when it’s your turn.

when that all happens, the economy will recover and fewer people will suffer.

simple stuff.

 

[Pookie]

Yes, because the rate of transmission has reduced due to restrictions.

this is such an easy concept. I’m not sure why it’s flying over heads.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

@Throw More Waffles - I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to argue.

Wear a mask. Stay within your household. Wash hands. Take the vaccine when it’s your turn.

when that all happens, the economy will recover and fewer people will suffer.

simple stuff.

Yes, staying isolated in your household is what works. Take a vaccine when available.

Everything else accomplishes nothing. Wuhan wore masks and socially distanced and they had to crash build hospitals overnight. These measures don't work.

I've never had this properly addressed. "If everyone just wore masks things would be a lot better". But literally everyone in Wuhan wore masks and they crash built hospitals overnight. Why won't anyone ever address this?

 

[Future]

Yes, because the rate of transmission has reduced due to restrictions.

Not even close to being true. Not sure what models you are referring to but they are supposed to take into consideration the existing restrictions. It makes no sense to release modeling for a scenario that isn’t even applicable. Even still, they have all been gross overestimates.

 

[nsleaf]

Yes, staying isolated in your household is what works. Take a vaccine when available.

Everything else accomplishes nothing. Wuhan wore masks and socially distanced and they had to crash build hospitals overnight. These measures don't work.

I've never had this properly addressed. "If everyone just wore masks things would be a lot better". But literally everyone in Wuhan wore masks and they crash built hospitals overnight. Why won't anyone ever address this?

Um, they were preparing for a pandemic.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Um, they were preparing for a pandemic.

Huh? What on earth does that mean?