Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[Filthy Dangles]

You could say the same for Iginla when he was traded, and look what he returned. If it's true that Giroux has only a few teams that he'll accept a trade to then I don't see Philly getting a great return. Anytime that happens the team trading the star gets shafted.

That was nearly a decade ago, with different circumstances, i don't think it has much bearing on what happens with Giroux. I recall writing was on the wall with him and the Flames, he was leaving one way or another and he wound up submitting a list of teams but then changed his mind to just Penguins last second. I think it was reported Boston gave a better offer

giroux seems fine staying with Flyers. again just my hunch on what his value ideally would be.

 

[PocketNines]

Giroux is looking at the West and saying to himself Colorado and STL are the only two teams with more than half regulation wins, Minnesota looks great when they are rolling, and Vegas can't possibly fit him.

From a Blues standpoint it's wishful thinking. The Blues are horrendous at giving up scoring chances off the forecheck. They need defense. Giroux doesn't play defense. On top of which his salary doesn't fit. On top of which there is no way we are giving a 1st+Neighbors for a pure rental, that is delusional. There are multiple full stops on the Blues idea.

It sucks that Colorado might be able to acquire him more cheaply, but the Blues can't even feign driving up the market.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah Iginla was a pending UFA. Nash was 34 when traded to the Bruins.

Nash might be a good comparison but he was not having as good of a year as Giroux is. Both were/are 34

 

[PocketNines]

Blues are just doing their due diligence of trying to jack up the price for a division rival, I'd expect no less from any team. It honestly will be the only thing of significance they do against the Avs this season.

As the Avs and Blues are the only two West teams who win more than half their games in regulation, I hope this attitude pervades on the Avs roster should they meet.

 

[57special]

Per Daters report, which i take lightly, which says Giroux would be ok going to Minnesota. Why would it not make sense for Giroux? Minnesota is a good team. They are contenders

MN would probably be able to put together a better package than CO, due to having a higher 2022 1st, and a much more loaded prospect pool. Having said that, unless Giroux can play C, and play it well(which he hasn't done in quite a long time, I don't think?), then MN wouldn't be all that interested. He won't fit onto JEE line with their dump and chase, pounding forecheck style that Greenway and Foligno do so well. He will not displace Kaprizov or Zuccarello (who is having a career year), Fiala, or Boldy(both smoking hot).
You sure as hell don't get him to play on your 4th line W.

CO is probably more motivated than any other Western team to go for it this year. Kadri, Burakovsky, Nichushkin are UFA's this summer. Mack will be in a year. The West is a cakewalk relative to most years. This is their year. A very late 1st and Barron would surely get it done. I am sure that CO would prefer something like Helleson and a 1st, or a 1st and 2023 2nd.

MN could offer a 1st, and ROR/Peart/Marat, but if Giroux can't play a good C then why bother?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

As the Avs and Blues are the only two West teams who win more than half their games in regulation, I hope this attitude pervades on the Avs roster should they meet.

You want to be swept again this year? Interesting.

 

[MuckOG]

MN would probably be able to put together a better package than CO, due to having a higher 2022 1st, and a much more loaded prospect pool. Having said that, unless Giroux can play C, and play it well(which he hasn't done in quite a long time, I don't think?), then MN wouldn't be all that interested. He won't fit onto JEE line with their dump and chase, pounding forecheck style that Greenway and Foligno do so well. He will not displace Kaprizov or Zuccarello (who is having a career year), Fiala, or Boldy(both smoking hot).
You sure as hell don't get him to play on your 4th line W.

CO is probably more motivated than any other Western team to go for it this year. Kadri, Burakovsky, Nichushkin are UFA's this summer. Mack will be in a year. The West is a cakewalk relative to most years. This is their year. A very late 1st and Barron would surely get it done. I am sure that CO would prefer something like Helleson and a 1st, or a 1st and 2023 2nd.

MN could offer a 1st, and ROR/Peart/Marat, but if Giroux can't play a good C then why bother?

If Guerin made a move for Giroux, it would HAVE to be with the understanding that he's playing center. TBH, I haven't watched a ton of Flyers hockey this season, but I do see that Giroux is taking the bulk of the face-offs and at at 60.5% win rate.

Faceoffs become so important in the postseason....and considering Sturm is the Wild's top faceoff performer at the moment (51.1%), Giroux would make for a large improvement.

If we got him, I would hope that we could drop Hartman down to play with Boldy and Fiala and put Giroux between Kaprizov and Zuccarello.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Yeah I disagree.

What do you want to trade in the summer to replace the likes of Kadri/Bura/Nuke and maybe even Kuemper if you don't have a 2023 1st and also further depleted the pool?

I also don't understand why people are so keen on going all-in when we are already #1 in the league and on paper can match up with any other team. Regardless of what happens this team is easily good enough to win a cup already. They probably won't but it will come down to luck, injuries and ultimately how our top guns will perform in the playoffs. No move you make right now will significantly improve your chances to win a cup this year. Maybe you even disrupt team chemistry and make the team worse like they arguably did last year with Nemeth and Soda.

Thats exactly when you should save your assets IMO for next year or the year after where the team might have obvious holes that you will need to overcome to seriously challenge for a cup.

What exactly are the Avs trying to do here? Stack their stacked forward core further?
Why?

Isn't goaltending and maybe D (depending on what happens with Byram) a far bigger hole even if ultimately they should be good enough to win it anyways if things go their way. And if they don't then well odds are no move would have changed the outcome anyways.

I agree that maybe Giroux isn't the right guy. With defense being more of a question mark, maybe that's where some assets should be spent. And a "better than Annunen" 3G is high on my list of wants, so maybe that would be a good place to try to upgrade too. But, Giroux does arguably address some needs to, and would almost certainly be an improvement in our bottom 6. The key point is that this is the best chance we're going to have for the foreseeable future, which makes addressing any remaining needs by spending expendable assets a smart choice.

 

[PocketNines]

You want to be swept again this year? Interesting.

I didn't make a prediction. They could very easily meet. As things stand the Avs would be clear favorites. But if the player attitude is that the 2022 playoff Blues = 2021 playoff Blues, I encourage that misconception since it isn't the best possible preparation, and many hockey teams have been felled by overconfidence in the playoffs. Pretty basic stuff. I am sure you can understand if you decide to.

 

[Foppberg]

That was nearly a decade ago, with different circumstances, i don't think it has much bearing on what happens with Giroux. I recall writing was on the wall with him and the Flames, he was leaving one way or another and he wound up submitting a list of teams but then changed his mind to just Penguins last second. I think it was reported Boston gave a better offer

Giroux seems fine staying with Flyers. again just my hunch on what his value ideally would be.

Point being, an older star player with a limited amount of teams he'll accept a trade to doesn't usually end well for the team trading him.

Future HOFer or not, I cannot think of a case where a team trading a mid 30s star player brought back a big haul. A 1st + B level prospect and another minor addition is about as much as you can ask for.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Nash might be a good comparison but he was not having as good of a year as Giroux is. Both were/are 34

Yeah, Nash was in the last throes of his career and obviously not 100% healthy.

As someone with no dog in this fight, I think his price should be a very good prospect like Justin Barron and a conditional 2nd 2023 that turns into a first 2023 if the Avs win, say, two rounds (which they should do). Can maybe throw another conditional pick in there like a third 2023 that turns into a 2nd in 2024 if the Avs win the whole thing.

 

[Dooble08]

Rick Nash from the Rags to the Bruins is a really, really bad comparison.

 

[nammerus]

I didn't make a prediction. They could very easily meet. As things stand the Avs would be clear favorites. But if the player attitude is that the 2022 playoff Blues = 2021 playoff Blues, I encourage that misconception since it isn't the best possible preparation, and many hockey teams have been felled by overconfidence in the playoffs. Pretty basic stuff. I am sure you can understand if you decide to.

It’s true. 2022 Blues are nothing like the 2021 Blues.

They are significantly worse defensively, propped up by unsustainable goaltending. Which is even more reason Giroux is not a good target for them.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Rick Nash from the Rags to the Bruins is a really, really bad comparison.

OK Einstein. Provide constructive criticism. What is a good comparison? The general conversation is what pending UFA around the age of 34 and considered a top line forward has been traded and for what? That's the conversation in case you didn't notice.

Help us find a good comparison. Put your energy towards that

 

[Dooble08]

If Guerin made a move for Giroux, it would HAVE to be with the understanding that he's playing center. TBH, I haven't watched a ton of Flyers hockey this season, but I do see that Giroux is taking the bulk of the face-offs and at at 60.5% win rate.

Faceoffs become so important in the postseason....and considering Sturm is the Wild's top faceoff performer at the moment (51.1%), Giroux would make for a large improvement.

If we got him, I would hope that we could drop Hartman down to play with Boldy and Fiala and put Giroux between Kaprizov and Zuccarello.

How disgusting would that be?

 

[MSSLYNX]

I believe there is a good deal of loyalty between Giroux and philly. Both ways.
So yes Giroux has expressed his preference for 1-2 teams but i’m pretty confident he will agree to a better deal from a Philly pov to play a few months on most contenders, closer to home or heavy favorites farther away.

After the season he gets to pick his team, he might even come back to Philly if he’s ok with their situation. Maybe he feels that the return from important players from injuries (Ellis, Couturier, Farabee, Hayes…) is enough to come back home.

It rarely happens but maybe Giroux is that type of guy.

Thats why i hope for a barron + Jost type of return instead of a 1st.

 

[PocketNines]

It’s true. 2022 Blues are nothing like the 2021 Blues.

They are significantly worse defensively, propped up by unsustainable goaltending. Which is even more reason Giroux is not a good target for them.

You're just uninformed.

The 2021 Blues didn't even win half their games including OT games. They barely made the playoffs in a fairly weak division.

The 2022 Blues are one of two West teams to win more than half their games in regulation and are on pace for their 4th most potent regular season in franchise history, just a notch ahead of 1998.

 

[57special]

If Guerin made a move for Giroux, it would HAVE to be with the understanding that he's playing center. TBH, I haven't watched a ton of Flyers hockey this season, but I do see that Giroux is taking the bulk of the face-offs and at at 60.5% win rate.

Faceoffs become so important in the postseason....and considering Sturm is the Wild's top faceoff performer at the moment (51.1%), Giroux would make for a large improvement.

If we got him, I would hope that we could drop Hartman down to play with Boldy and Fiala and put Giroux between Kaprizov and Zuccarello.

Messing with your two top lines is a BAD idea, as is playing a guy out of position. PHI fans would know more than I, but if Giroux was a Center, why wouldn't they be playing him there? FO's are only a part of the job.

 

[MuckOG]

Messing with your two top lines is a BAD idea, as is playing a guy out of position. PHI fans would know more than I, but if Giroux was a Center, why wouldn't they be playing him there? FO's are only a part of the job.

Yeah, like I said I wouldn't want to bring in Giroux to play on the wing.....and its true that FOs are "part" of the job....but very IMPORTANT part of the job especially in the playoffs.

 

[GuerinUp]

As the Avs and Blues are the only two West teams who win more than half their games in regulation, I hope this attitude pervades on the Avs roster should they meet.

what does this have to do with anything?! wild have 22 with games in hand, and last time i checked theres still overtime in the playoffs.

 

[Reinhart]

That was nearly a decade ago, with different circumstances, i don't think it has much bearing on what happens with Giroux. I recall writing was on the wall with him and the Flames, he was leaving one way or another and he wound up submitting a list of teams but then changed his mind to just Penguins last second. I think it was reported Boston gave a better offer

giroux seems fine staying with Flyers. again just my hunch on what his value ideally would be.

Well, every market is different every year. Is this a soft market this year? We will see I guess.

As for the Iginla trade:

I rank the offers as even with the benefit of hindsight. Penguins' offer ended up being better, actually, since Boston won the cup that year, so the pick ended up being better. However, the prospects in both deals were: Boston - 1st (29), Khockhlachev and Bartkowswki. Flames got Agostino, Hanowski, 1st round pick (28). With hindsight, there was no 'better offer'. Neither of them inlcuded any top prospects. I guess Bartkowski had the best career out of the bunch, but he wasn't a prize.

As for Iginla 'changing his mind' - that didn't happen. Feaster the idiot never got him to sign-off on the paperwork. Jarome wanted to go to Pittsburgh, but was willing to go to 4 teams overall. When Feaster came back after thinking his deal to Boston was the 'best' on the table, Jarome responded with: "Did Pittsburgh make an offer?", Feaster said "Yes", and Jarome said: "I'm a Pen." Pens looked like the biggest contender that year, and for the first time in his career he would get to play alongside a bona fide #1 centre. Boston ended up winning the cup though to throw egg on everyone's faces - on Iginla for picking the wrong team (though Pittsburgh were heavy favourites IIRC, at least the time of the trade). I don't see it as Iginla doing anything wrong - Feaster handled that trade in embarrassing fashion (as he handled the Bouwmeester trade, and the Regehr trade). If Feaster wanted absolute control over Iginla's destination, then perhaps he should have actually gotten sign-off? LoL Besides, as a Flames' fan, I just rationalize it as: "Feaster should have allowed the face of the franchise to pick where he wanted to go anyway to reward him for his hard work - and he had a full NMC anyway."

 

[Lemonlimey]

Imagine having such a tight butt hole over Barron when you have makar toews and Girard all locked up and Byram in the wings. Goodness.

If the offer is mediocre from from Avs, then keeping G and letting him hit 1000 games with the Flyers is more preferential from the fans point of view

why not both? He should definately play his 1000th game in Philly. Then you could have an extra playoff interest potentially. And fairy tale ending, he comes home after?

 

[PocketNines]

what does this have to do with anything?! wild have 22 with games in hand, and last time i checked theres still overtime in the playoffs.

Because OT in the playoffs isn't 3v3 and then a shootout? Hello?

 

[GuerinUp]

Because OT in the playoffs isn't 3v3 and then a shootout? Hello?

that still doesnt mean anything in reality. Just because a game was won in 3v3 overtime doesnt mean the team wouldnt win the game in 5v5 overtime. thats a flawed analysis with way too many variables. win percentage and gf/ga is a way more important statistic

 

[PocketNines]

that still doesnt mean anything in reality. Just because a game was won in 3v3 overtime doesnt mean the team wouldnt win the game in 5v5 overtime. thats a flawed analysis with way too many variables. win percentage and gf/ga is a way more important statistic

Of course it means something in reality. Wild are 22RW in 44GP so they are right there too and could easily finish with at least 42RW. I mentioned it as the reason why Giroux might specify these particular teams. He understands that regulation wins during 5v5 are so very obviously competitively more important than wins 3v3 with a shootout when chasing a Cup, as the latter format is inapplicable.

For example the 95-96 Red Wings who won 59 regulation games and 3 games in 5v5 OT format own a far more potent accomplishment than the 18-19 Lightning who also won 62 games but merely 44RW and a whopping 18 of them in the inapplicable-to-playoff-rules time.