Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[a mangy Meowth]

This would be a real luxury add for the Avs who are already arguably the best offensive team in the NHL. However that's a lot due to the Dmen on the team and so I can see how adding another absolutely lethal forward could push our offense even more sky high. I think Giroux plays the type of cerebral game where he would be a great add for the playoffs when it gets a little sloggier. He's not gonna be the fastest guy on his line here, but he doesn't need to be.

It would be great to have an additional elite forward to push everyone down the lineup and help score if MacKinnon/Rantanen/Kadri/Landeskog happen to have an off game. Avs could and probably would still beat Minnesota/St. Louis even if they added Giroux and the Avs didn't. Avs are simply (at least as of this writing) so far ahead of everyone else in the west in terms of overall talent that only Vegas cheating the cap can stand up to them on paper, and even then I think I still would pick the Avs over them this time. There's nothing at the deadline that any of the other teams can do to close the gap in my view (though I'm sure this will cause some ire).


The mind says add a top-4 Dman with grit with any available wiggle room. The heart screams Giroux

I love that despite Giroux being a luxury, we are pushing our chips in on this one. I love him as a player, love his fiery competitiveness and his scoring/passing touch. I'd be ecstatic if we added him and didn't lose a piece off the roster that moves the needle.

Our 1st rounder being in '23 is an immediate disadvantage in a bidding war. I hope Sakic, if only for my personal joy and entertainment, pays the price to pluck him out of Philly.

 

[GuerinUp]

This would be a real luxury add for the Avs who are already arguably the best offensive team in the NHL. However that's a lot due to the Dmen on the team and so I can see how adding another absolutely lethal forward could push our offense even more sky high. I think Giroux plays the type of cerebral game where he would be a great add for the playoffs when it gets a little sloggier. He's not gonna be the fastest guy on his line here, but he doesn't need to be.

It would be great to have an additional elite forward to push everyone down the lineup and help score if MacKinnon/Rantanen/Kadri/Landeskog happen to have an off game. Avs could and probably would still beat Minnesota/St. Louis even if they added Giroux and the Avs didn't. Avs are simply (at least as of this writing) so far ahead of everyone else in the west in terms of overall talent that only Vegas cheating the cap can stand up to them on paper, and even then I think I still would pick the Avs over them this time. There's nothing at the deadline that any of the other teams can do to close the gap in my view (though I'm sure this will cause some ire).


The mind says add a top-4 Dman with grit with any available wiggle room. The heart screams Giroux

I love that despite Giroux being a luxury, we are pushing our chips in on this one. I love him as a player, love his fiery competitiveness and his scoring/passing touch. I'd be ecstatic if we added him and didn't lose a piece off the roster that moves the needle.

Our 1st rounder being in '23 is an immediate disadvantage in a bidding war. I hope Sakic, if only for my personal joy and entertainment, pays the price to pluck him out of Philly.

how many times has this been said the past 20 years?

 

[JoeSakic13]

Has a more legitimate source than Dater reported Minny being in the mix? Cuz if not I’d argue it’s so far between STL and COL as destinations.

 

[lrw2105]

Has a more legitimate source than Dater reported Minny being in the mix? Cuz if not I’d argue it’s so far between STL and COL as destinations.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Has a more legitimate source than Dater reported Minny being in the mix? Cuz if not I’d argue it’s so far between STL and COL as destinations.

Who else besides Dater has put St. Louis in on it? Considering we need defense way more and LeBrun has indicated that we aren't really interested in paying a premium to fill that hole, I doubt we will for Giroux.

 

[Foppberg]

Lol Dater..

 

[JoeSakic13]

Who else besides Dater has put St. Louis in on it? Considering we need defense way more and LeBrun has indicated that we aren't really interested in paying a premium to fill that hole, I doubt we will for Giroux.

Someone was saying a Seravelli podcast he said it. Ill see if I can find it. Watch this space.

 

[PocketNines]

Who else besides Dater has put St. Louis in on it? Considering we need defense way more and LeBrun has indicated that we aren't really interested in paying a premium to fill that hole, I doubt we will for Giroux.

According to post 1067 on page 43 Severalli has concurred with Dater's report.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Someone was saying a Seravelli podcast he said it. Ill see if I can find it. Watch this space.

According to post 1067 on page 43 Severalli has concurred with Dater's report.

Thanks, I'll listen and see what he said about the Blues part.

 

[phil162888]

Imagine not knowing that young ELC talent is paramount in remaing a contender. Toews is signed for a couple more seasons after this one, not until the end of time.

Imagine not knowing that a late first rd pick doesn't have that much value in real terms (that's why they get traded for the Foligno's/Savards of the world)... Give me a break... Best case for Avs is 2nd rd pick this yr + Barron or top 3 prospect of Flyers liking (outside of Byram and Newhook)+ Conditional 2023 2nd rd pick that turns into a 1st if Avs make Conference Finals or resign G. I think Flyers push for that guaranteed 1st for next year but Fletcher once again is not the best so Flyer fans aren't holding their breaths.

Most Flyer fans hate Fletcher but this is the absolute least they should get in a trade with Avs. Even then it's really not that great of a deal. Late 2nd rd picks and late 1st rd picks are a crapshoot. Barron is not an elite prospect like Byram or Newhook..

I think certain fan bases relate 1st rd picks to the NFL... in which their value is high throughout the 1st and even 2nd rd.... NHL is not particularly high unless your top 10 pick maybe top 20....NBA/MLB late 1st rd picks are worthless.

Will see if Fletcher can't get the above he'd be an idiot to trade him... btw that is in the realm of possibility because he has made some idiotic moves lol

 

[phil162888]

Imagine not knowing that a late first rd pick doesn't have that much value in real terms (that's why they get traded for the Foligno's/Savards of the world)... Give me a break... Best case for Avs is 2nd rd pick this yr + Barron or top 3 prospect of Flyers liking (outside of Byram and Newhook)+ Conditional 2023 2nd rd pick that turns into a 1st if Avs make Conference Finals or resign G. I think Flyers push for that guaranteed 1st for next year but Fletcher once again is not the best so Flyer fans aren't holding their breaths.

Most Flyer fans hate Fletcher but this is the absolute least they should get in a trade with Avs. Even then it's really not that great of a deal. Late 2nd rd picks and late 1st rd picks are a crapshoot. Barron is not an elite prospect like Byram or Newhook..

I think certain fan bases relate 1st rd picks to the NFL... in which their value is high throughout the 1st and even 2nd rd.... NHL is not particularly high unless your top 10 pick maybe top 20....NBA/MLB late 1st rd picks are worthless.

Will see if Fletcher can't get the above he'd be an idiot to trade him... btw that is in the realm of possibility because he has made some idiotic moves lol

Will add.... this would be at 50% retention for G so no players coming back...Flyers need and want cap space for next season

 

[Bender]

I'm not flyers fan, so i can't really say. I'm a caps fan, just like to evaluate trade scenarios for all teams. I'm sure Compher is fine, but Flyers may prefer flexibility going into the offseason instead of having another guy under contract. I think for any Giroux trade to work for Colorado, Compher has to go the other way. If Flyers had the option to take futures + Compher or futures + expiring contract they may prefer the latter.

Not necessarily, I would think that if the Flyers don't want him as part of the return, the Avs could ship him elsewhere to make cap room if they needed to. I would think there would likely be a few teams interested if he came cheap. Bad fit on the Avs but still a Top-9 NHL player.

 

[phil162888]

Flyers are better off getting a second round pick and a good prospect then nothing

Avs giving up their 2023 first rounder in discussion with 2003 for a rental is comical

piss Giroux off and they have 0.0 chance resigning

tough spot for Fletcher

Their likely not resigning G.....that ship sailed prior to this season....personally would love to have him back but Flyers will blow their wad on Gaudreau unfortunately...just the Flyers way lol

 

[phil162888]

Flyers are better off getting a second round pick and a good prospect then nothing

Avs giving up their 2023 first rounder in discussion with 2003 for a rental is comical

piss Giroux off and they have 0.0 chance resigning

tough spot for Fletcher

After Fletcher got fleeced this off season no way he survives if he doesn't get at least fair value for G... He gave a 1st and 2nd for Risto how do you get less for one of the best players in franchise history that is playing extremely well lol

 

[lionsDen]

Let the misinformation season begin, enjoy the ride

 

[shadow1]

OK Einstein. Provide constructive criticism. What is a good comparison? The general conversation is what pending UFA around the age of 34 and considered a top line forward has been traded and for what? That's the conversation in case you didn't notice.

Help us find a good comparison. Put your energy towards that

Just looking at last year:

- New York traded a 1st, 4th, and two AHLers for pending UFA's 30-year-old Kyle Palmieri (17P in 34GP) and 35-year-old Travis Zajac (18P in 33GP).
- Toronto traded a 1st, 4th, 4th for 33-year-old pending UFA Nick Foligno (16P in 42GP) and Stefan Noesen.
- Tampa traded a 1st, 3rd, 4th(salary retention to DET) for 30-year-old pending UFA David Savard (6P in 40GP) and an AHLer.

(Ironically Foligno, Palmieri, and Savard all have an identical 1 goal scored each this year; with the former two players having identical stat lines: 29GP 1G 6A 7P)

These players are all younger than Giroux, but they check the boxes of being:

1) Age 30+
2) Playoff rentals

They're are all significantly worse than Giroux however, and - with the exception of the now-retired Travis Zajac - were having pretty bad seasons at the time of the trade. But they still all returned 1st round picks + additional picks despite that.

I'm an Avs fan and am expecting a 1st + good prospect (i.e. Barron). Anything less and it'll be a fleecing by Sakic.

 

[MuckOG]

It would be great to have an additional elite forward to push everyone down the lineup and help score if MacKinnon/Rantanen/Kadri/Landeskog happen to have an off game. Avs could and probably would still beat Minnesota/St. Louis even if they added Giroux and the Avs didn't. Avs are simply (at least as of this writing) so far ahead of everyone else in the west in terms of overall talent that only Vegas cheating the cap can stand up to them on paper, and even then I think I still would pick the Avs over them this time. There's nothing at the deadline that any of the other teams can do to close the gap in my view (though I'm sure this will cause some ire).

 

[John Mandalorian]

 

[GuerinUp]

whats the phrase? pride comes before a fall?

 

[PocketNines]

What Severalli speculates on the Blues (at the 17:00 mark) is that the Blues have been following Giroux' season, there's a comfort level with Berube and Schenn who can advocate for Giroux, and of course blocking a rival from getting a player the cheapest possible way.

If the Blues are really involved it really has to be Tarasenko going the other way. Armstrong comments and other atmospherics have left Blues fans feeling comfortable that Tarasenko will be in STL the rest of the year and the most plausible thought is he'd be shopped at the draft for a 1st+ prospect for the final year of his deal (7.5M AAV, 5.5M real dollars).

But if this chatter is real, it almost has to be Tarasenko, probably straight up because his presumed trade value at the draft is pretty close to Giroux' presumed value. Giroux would need 9% retention to make the cap even.

I'd think the Flyers would value futures more, but since Tarasenko could either be kept or turned into futures, at least it's an offer to beat. The Flyers could then turn around and trade Tarasenko to the Avs! That would not be fun at all.

 

[pockets]

Imagine not knowing that a late first rd pick doesn't have that much value in real terms (that's why they get traded for the Foligno's/Savards of the world)... Give me a break... Best case for Avs is 2nd rd pick this yr + Barron or top 3 prospect of Flyers liking (outside of Byram and Newhook)+ Conditional 2023 2nd rd pick that turns into a 1st if Avs make Conference Finals or resign G. I think Flyers push for that guaranteed 1st for next year but Fletcher once again is not the best so Flyer fans aren't holding their breaths.

FYI, the NHL no longer allows re-signing with a team to be a condition on traded draft picks unless it’s a RFA being traded that isn’t under contract.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

What Severalli speculates on the Blues (at the 17:00 mark) is that the Blues have been following Giroux' season, there's a comfort level with Berube and Schenn who can advocate for Giroux, and of course blocking a rival from getting a player the cheapest possible way.

If the Blues are really involved it really has to be Tarasenko going the other way. Armstrong comments and other atmospherics have left Blues fans feeling comfortable that Tarasenko will be in STL the rest of the year and the most plausible thought is he'd be shopped at the draft for a 1st+ prospect for the final year of his deal (7.5M AAV, 5.5M real dollars).

But if this chatter is real, it almost has to be Tarasenko, probably straight up because his presumed trade value at the draft is pretty close to Giroux' presumed value. Giroux would need 9% retention to make the cap even.

I'd think the Flyers would value futures more, but since Tarasenko could either be kept or turned into futures, at least it's an offer to beat. The Flyers could then turn around and trade Tarasenko to the Avs! That would not be fun at all.

You genuinely think that this basement-dwelling team is going to swap Giroux for Tarasenko in a 1-1 Blues deal?

Why wouldn't we just re-sign Giroux then?

 

[TheKingPin]

Seems like G wants Colorado so the flyers should make it happen. Even if it’s less value. Take the 1st and a prospect with another puck vs prospect.

 

[PocketNines]

You genuinely think that this basement-dwelling team is going to swap Giroux for Tarasenko in a 1-1 Blues deal?

Why wouldn't we just re-sign Giroux then?

You aren't signing Giroux if what he's decided is to try to win the Cup at the end of his window. That may be what he has decided, according to reports.

I pretty clearly explained multiple times I don't think it makes sense and I brought up several reasons why it doesn't make sense. The Blues are up against the cap. Giroux makes 110% of what Tarasenko makes, Tarasenko IS assumed to still be on the market even if it's been moved back to the draft where it would be a 1st+ prospect.

I also very clearly echoed reported speculation that the Blues could make this offer so that the Avs cannot lowball, because while it's obviously not ideal for the Flyers – as I already took the time to acknowledge in words you ignored – it would be a real offer and Tarasenko could be flipped to someone else, or kept, whatever fits Flyer needs. Without such an offer the Flyers can't bluff the Avs higher. I assume Flyer fans do want there to be a market if they trade Giroux instead of taking whatever the Avs offer.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

whats the phrase? pride comes before a fall?

Id be cheering for you guys against the Avs for sure. Their arrogant fans here have completely turned me off them.