Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[Habs Halifax]

Giroux should fetch a 1st and a prospect one level up from the one Montreal got. Not a top or surefire prospect, but one with more potential than the kid habs got.

I don't think we should compare Giroux to Tofolli when one has term and the other is a pending UFA. Giroux will return a very good return but he has only 3 teams on his trade list. That limit things. Giroux is better than Toffoli (we all agree there) but the contracts are not the same. It's not a good base to compare

Compare Giroux to other pending UFA's like Rick Nash. Who am I forgetting? I believe the Rangers got a 1st, Spooner, Beleskey, and Lindgren.

Also, Heineman is a B+ type prospect at this point. His development since being drafted is on a very steep curve. Who knows where he tops out at but getting anybody better is basically a grade A. Prospects can bust yes but his development and game has no glaring flaws. Highly valued in the SHL and he leap frogged the Allsvenskan league. Not many have done that and he's clearly able to play against men at the age of 20.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I don't think we should compare Giroux to Tofolli when one has term and the other is a pending UFA. Giroux will return a very good return but he has only 3 teams on his trade list. That limit things. Giroux is better than Toffoli (we all agree there) but the contracts are not the same. It's not a good base to compare

Compare Giroux to other pending UFA's like Rick Nash. Who am I forgetting? I believe the Rangers got a 1st, Spooner, Beleskey, and Lindgren.

I am not basing his value based on what Toffoli returned, just comparing them since the trade just happened.

Giroux is a borderline Hall of Famer. I don't care if Toffoli has a couple extra seasons on his deal he's a middling player, Giroux can still play at a high level and could be that missing piece, he's more valuable in a trade.

You could also make the argument that Toffoli's contract was addition by subtraction for Montreal as he is getting older and might be slowing down.

I understand the part about choosing his destiny, Flyers could also opt not to deal him if they don't like the trade and Giroux isn't adamant about one.

Just my gut feeling that's what he 'should' be worth.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Neutral fan coming in here:

The return for Giroux to Colorado would probably look something like this:
2023 2nd round pick
2023 3rd round pick
Shane Bowers
Justin Barron

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well, we don't know how many teams are on Giroux's list. There's one guy in Colorado reporting there's 3 teams.

I believe his list is small. He's earned it but if it's more than 3 teams, then we will soon find out for real.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I am not basing his value based on what Toffoli returned, just comparing them since the trade just happened.

Giroux is a borderline Hall of Famer. I don't care if Toffoli has a couple extra seasons on his deal he's a middling player, Giroux can still play at a high level and could be that missing piece, he's more valuable in a trade.

You could also make the argument that Toffoli's contract was addition by subtraction for Montreal as he is getting older and might be slowing down.

I understand the part about choosing his destiny, Flyers could also opt not to deal him if they don't like the trade and Giroux isn't adamant about one.

Just my gut feeling that's what he 'should' be worth.

\


That's great, unfortunately for you, what you think doesn't matter one bit.


Any NHL GM will care quite a bit about the difference between getting a guy for 3 playoff runs, and getting a guy for only 1 playoff run.


Toffoli was the more valuable asset.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am not basing his value based on what Toffoli returned, just comparing them since the trade just happened.

Giroux is a borderline Hall of Famer. I don't care if Toffoli has a couple extra seasons on his deal he's a middling player, Giroux can still play at a high level and could be that missing piece, he's more valuable in a trade.

You could also make the argument that Toffoli's contract was addition by subtraction for Montreal as he is getting older and might be slowing down.

I understand the part about choosing his destiny, Flyers could also opt not to deal him if they don't like the trade and Giroux isn't adamant about one.

Just my gut feeling that's what he 'should' be worth.

I don't think the Habs make that deal if they were not high on Heineman to be honest. Habs did not move him cause he was slowing down and getting older. They moved him cause they value Heineman and the 1st on top. Posters are going to do what they do but most of us don't know prospects as well as we think we do

Will Giroux get a 1st and someone better than Heineman? Well that depends on how you rate Heineman. Lets face it, he wasn't on anybody's radar but that also applies to Suzuki when the Habs acquired him for Patch. I just don't believe the Habs have to make that deal and they only did cause they were very high on the swede's game. Fast skater, plays physical, and can finish (11 goals in 36 games). A projected Hyman type? We will see. He's on a very positive development curve so far.

Giroux will return one of the two yes... Something close to that but it's more about Giroux giving a team an edge to win a cup cause Giroux is that good. Toffoli is a top 6F or very good middle 6F on a value contract but Giroux can play center or wing and is still a top line asset. No doubt about it, Giroux closes the gap as a pending UFA over Toffoli who had term and a value contract. Does he close the entire gap? We will see cause it might not be about value, it might be about him giving a team a real shot at a cup. Toffoli helps the Flames yes but not like Giroux does

Grade A and a 2nd
or
1st and B Prospect.

I bet you Giroux's return will be close to what the Rangers got for R Nash. Are there any others we can compare to (very good Pending UFA's?)

 

[123offtheglass]

Whatever the cost is it's going to being fair for the acquiring team, but enough that it makes sense for Philli to actually move him; Giroux's (FULL) NMC is a major factor.

Think he'd be a great fit in Colorado, they could sure use him for draws.

There'd be a bidding war between a short few of Giroux's preferred teams, & his preference matters; I'd think that'd help Colorado.

 

[MSSLYNX]

When I said middle 6 I meant players who should be slotted on a 2nd or 3rd line. That doesn't mean Atkinson, Konecny, and Farabee are 3d liners, they're just more suitable for a 2nd line roll. Sure, they can play on a top line in a pinch but if a team wants to be a contender, those three should be on a 2nd line. If Giroux is gone, Couturier is the only legitimate top line player on the team so my point was, adding another guy whos going to chip in 30-40 points doesn't really move the needle.

Totally agree Compher not a need. But I am perfectly fine with a first line of Couturier, Atkinson, Farabee.

Lindblom was projecting as a 2nd liner because of his play in SHL, AHL and 17 goals 1st year NHL. Now he is bottom 6.
Nolan Patrick was also at least a 2nd liner.
Both got derailed.
Creates a high-end talent hole now that Frost, Foerster, Allison, Brink, O’Brien all early picks must fill.
So Konecny is alone on 2nd line playing with 3rd-4th liners.

Giroux wont return a 2nd liner anyway. Get 2 prospects who could.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

\


That's great, unfortunately for you, what you think doesn't matter one bit.


Any NHL GM will care quite a bit about the difference between getting a guy for 3 playoff runs, and getting a guy for only 1 playoff run.


Toffoli was the more valuable asset.

Well likewise that's your opinion, value isn't absolute and can't be quantified. I would think there are GM's who would give a touch more up in a trade to acquire a guy like Claude Giroux even if it's for one playoff run than for Tyler Toffoli even if he has some term

 

[Foppberg]

I am not basing his value based on what Toffoli returned, just comparing them since the trade just happened.

Giroux is a borderline Hall of Famer. I don't care if Toffoli has a couple extra seasons on his deal he's a middling player, Giroux can still play at a high level and could be that missing piece, he's more valuable in a trade.

Just my gut feeling that's what he 'should' be worth.

You could say the same for Iginla when he was traded, and look what he returned. If it's true that Giroux has only a few teams that he'll accept a trade to then I don't see Philly getting a great return. Anytime that happens the team trading the star gets shafted.

 

[redandyellowcametobe]

Neutral fan coming in here:

The return for Giroux to Colorado would probably look something like this:
2023 2nd round pick
2023 3rd round pick
Shane Bowers
Justin Barron

I agree with this. I don’t think Sakic uses his 2023 1st so adds Bowers to sweeten the deal a bit. Barron is a decent defensive prospect with top four upside. In a perfect world the Avs would use him to replace EJ when he leaves and his contract $ is used to pay Mack.

I’d have to assume most Philly fans know that Newhook or Bo would never be part of the deal by now?

either way, loosing Barron isn’t easy for the Avs. Toews is only signed for another 2 years and with the loss of EJ they will be holes to fill. I guess a lot depends on the health of Bo as well.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I bet you Giroux's return will be close to what the Rangers got for R Nash. Are there any others we can compare to (very good Pending UFA's?)

Nash wasn't a pending UFA, he had 6 years left on his deal. Not a comparable situation.

 

[pman25]

OK, so you're answering from Chuck Fletcher's perspective. How does this make sense for Giroux?

Per Daters report, which i take lightly, which says Giroux would be ok going to Minnesota. Why would it not make sense for Giroux? Minnesota is a good team. They are contenders

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I believe his list is small. He's earned it but if it's more than 3 teams, then we will soon find out for real.

And that's based on....?

 

[Stephen Gionta]

There is zero chance Newhook or Byram are going to be included in a trade for a rental that gets to choose his location or he stays put.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nash wasn't a pending UFA, he had 6 years left on his deal. Not a comparable situation.

The trade from the Rangers to the Bruins? He was a pending UFA at that point. Forget how old he was then?

 

[Habs Halifax]

And that's based on....?

Based on my opinion and hunch. The quote says... "I Believe". How else can you comprehend that? Choose what you do next carefully and if you want to nit pick or belittle, you go on ignore mode.

Not sure what angle you are taking but "I believe" means "I Believe". Come on man

 

[pman25]

I don't get this line of thinking on a guy like Compher. I mean, are the Flyers going to hit the reset button and be a factor starting next year or do they have a bunch of issues that need fixing that's going to take some time? I was under the impression it was the latter but please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't follow that team on a daily.

Acquiring a guy like Compher isn't the horrible atrocity many seem to believe. He's not a great fit on the Avs but he's still been able to produce at close to a .50 PPG clip being used mostly as a 3rd line forward for 3 of the past 4 years. Bednar uses him up and down the lineup and as a top-6 guy when there are injuries. I think he's much better as a winger than a center but he's versatile and can play any forward position.

I don't see why the Flyers wouldn't stick that guy in their Top-6 and see how he does... if it's a good fit, you can even sign him but if not, you can always ship him out at next year's deadline as a UFA for some assets.

I think players and how they fit into a lineup and in a team scheme in often overlooked. You guys dumped NAK which the Avs were happy to claim off waivers for free (not rubbing it in - just stating a fact) and he's been a perfect fit for the Avs lineup.

I'm not flyers fan, so i can't really say. I'm a caps fan, just like to evaluate trade scenarios for all teams. I'm sure Compher is fine, but Flyers may prefer flexibility going into the offseason instead of having another guy under contract. I think for any Giroux trade to work for Colorado, Compher has to go the other way. If Flyers had the option to take futures + Compher or futures + expiring contract they may prefer the latter.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The trade from the Rangers to the Bruins? He was a pending UFA at that point. Forget how old he was then?

Sorry, thought you meant from CBJ to the Rangers. My fault.

 

[McJedi]

Quite the pull Toffoli brought in. To those saying Giroux is worth a low 1st and B level prospect, what say you now?

Quite a pull? No. I’d say the Habs got a modest B level prospect and low 1st for a cost controlled 2nd line wing that was playing well on a bad team. Philly will get less for Giroux.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sorry, thought you meant from CBJ to the Rangers. My fault.

No worries. What was Nash's age then and who else can we think of who would be top line assets like Giroux and Nash (as pending UFA's)?

How old was Iginla when he was traded? I believe he was a pending UFA?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Quite a pull? No. I’d say the Habs got a modest prospect and low 1st for a cost controlled 2nd line wing that’s playing well in a bad team. Philly will get less for Giroux.

I don't know about that. You could be spot on or way off. Most are calling Heineman as modest prospect but I just can't help but think the Habs don't bank on the 1st alone and they consider Heineman the best pieces with the 1st (20-30 range on top).

Is it a buyers market? Possible but all it takes is for one or two GM's to make a move and the floodgate opens. Very interesting move by the Habs yesterday but not so sure if reveals the true market yet.

 

[shadow1]

At the 18:30 mark Seravalli mentions that Colorado will be dangling their 2023 1st round pick and (former 1st round pick) Justin Barron at the deadline to make their team better (in reference to Giroux).

 

[TheBloodyNine]

No worries. What was Nash's age then and who else can we think of who would be top line assets like Giroux and Nash (as pending UFA's)?

How old was Iginla when he was traded? I believe he was a pending UFA?

Yeah Iginla was a pending UFA. Nash was 34 when traded to the Bruins.

 

[Ararana]

The Blues part seems bait to me. They already have more than enough forwards unless Giroux can also play defense lol

Blues are just doing their due diligence of trying to jack up the price for a division rival, I'd expect no less from any team. It honestly will be the only thing of significance they do against the Avs this season.