Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[Kranix]

Quite the pull Toffoli brought in. To those saying Giroux is worth a low 1st and B level prospect, what say you now?

You'll get a 1st and two nothing players for him. He's a rental.

 

[mja]

I think this is a bluff by Chuck Fletcher...or maybe Chuck Fletcher talked Giroux into including St Louis and Minnesota. It's too coincidental that he just happens to want to go to Central teams, and specifically Colorado or it's rivals. I'm not sure why others aren't commenting how this is odd and suspicious. If you're Claude Giroux, why would want only go to the Central Division?

The list isn't exclusive, just places he's willing to go to. I'm sure if Carolina called he wouldn't block a trade there, for example. Also, this is Dater, so this could be just him doing his thing.

 

[StoneHands]

I don't get this line of thinking on a guy like Compher. I mean, are the Flyers going to hit the reset button and be a factor starting next year or do they have a bunch of issues that need fixing that's going to take some time? I was under the impression it was the latter but please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't follow that team on a daily.

Acquiring a guy like Compher isn't the horrible atrocity many seem to believe. He's not a great fit on the Avs but he's still been able to produce at close to a .50 PPG clip being used mostly as a 3rd line forward for 3 of the past 4 years. Bednar uses him up and down the lineup and as a top-6 guy when there are injuries. I think he's much better as a winger than a center but he's versatile and can play any forward position.

I don't see why the Flyers wouldn't stick that guy in their Top-6 and see how he does... if it's a good fit, you can even sign him but if not, you can always ship him out at next year's deadline as a UFA for some assets.

I think players and how they fit into a lineup and in a team scheme in often overlooked. You guys dumped NAK which the Avs were happy to claim off waivers for free (not rubbing it in - just stating a fact) and he's been a perfect fit for the Avs lineup.

I think the problem is, Compher is just like the majority of the Flyers forward. He's a middle 6 forward just like Atkinson, Farabee, Konecny, Hayes, JVR, Laughton, Brassard, Frost, and Lindblom. It's not that Compher isn't a useful player, it's that he'd be redundant on this team. He's the kind of player they need to move on from in hopes of finding some actual top 6 forwards.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The list isn't exclusive, just places he's willing to go to. I'm sure if Carolina called he wouldn't block a trade there, for example. Also, this is Dater, so this could be just him doing his thing.

Thanks for this interpretation.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Sharks have shown a willingness to get involved in the double retention deals when they're out of it so it wouldn't surprise me if they're the third team involved as I'm sure Seattle could be too. Probably would need a 3rd from Colorado.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'd do a 1st and neighbours or a 1st and Addison over all of these avs deals

0 chance Neighbors is available for Giroux.

 

[dmac7719]

Sharks have shown a willingness to get involved in the double retention deals when they're out of it so it wouldn't surprise me if they're the third team involved as I'm sure Seattle could be too. Probably would need a 3rd from Colorado.

Last season it took a 4th round pick for the double retention spot in 2 different trades. The Foligno and Savard trades. Why would it would be a 3rd round pick this season?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Odds are atleast 2 or maybe even all of them will walk in the offseason. The Avs can't afford to pay them according to their production.

Thats why making a huge move especially for a rental right now sounds like such a horrible idea. They are going to need every asset possible in the summer to replace those guys.

Normally, I'm all about keeping assets, but this is exactly the time when a smart move for a good rental makes sense. Giving up the 2023 1st + one of the lesser prospects (Kaut/Ranta/Stienburg) isn't going to cause short term issues, and doesn't even make a significant dent in the long term prospect pool. They still have the ability to fill in some of the gaps in the roster with youngsters on ELCs, which leaves more space to keep Nuke and maybe Bura, or sign UFAs.

 

[Foppberg]

Quite the pull Toffoli brought in. To those saying Giroux is worth a low 1st and B level prospect, what say you now?

He's worth a 1st and B level prospect.

 

[shadow1]

Odds are atleast 2 or maybe even all of them will walk in the offseason. The Avs can't afford to pay them according to their production.

Thats why making a huge move especially for a rental right now sounds like such a horrible idea. They are going to need every asset possible in the summer to replace those guys.

Even if all three players walk, Sakic is going to need to replace them with veterans. I don't think it's likely that Olausson would come close to replacing any of them anytime soon.

Burakovsky was a third liner and Nichushkin was bought out when Colorado brought them in; Kadri was the only "name" at the time. So Colorado is going to need to lean on its pro scouting to find replacements with upside (which is their specialty).

IMO that's why the Avalanche need to go all in now. Kadri randomly scoring at a 120+ point pace is a season that can't be wasted.

 

[MuckOG]

How about the Wild's '22 1st round pick + Adam Beckman or Calen Addison?

 

[Avsfan1921]

A first or higher end prospect has to go back for Giroux…. Expecting to not give up one of those pieces is setting any Avs fan who believes otherwise up for disappointment.

Now is also the time for a trade like this to happen. I’m not in the camp that our window slams shut in the next couple years like some are but this year is likely to be our best shot and I hope Sakic treats it as such.

 

[FlyguyOX]

How about the Wild's '22 1st round pick + Adam Beckman or Calen Addison?

I'd take either but prefer a D-man.

 

[Hasbro]

If the Flyers trade Giroux for the 60-64th pick and the draft and an AHL level prospect, I will lose my mind. The only way that's possible in my opinion is if Giroux and Fletcher have a handshake deal that Giroux will return for cheap in the offseason if he gets to go to Colorado.

We’re trying to approximate Bozak + 2nd.

 

[JoemAvs]

Normally, I'm all about keeping assets, but this is exactly the time when a smart move for a good rental makes sense. Giving up the 2023 1st + one of the lesser prospects (Kaut/Ranta/Stienburg) isn't going to cause short term issues, and doesn't even make a significant dent in the long term prospect pool. They still have the ability to fill in some of the gaps in the roster with youngsters on ELCs, which leaves more space to keep Nuke and maybe Bura, or sign UFAs.

Yeah I disagree.

What do you want to trade in the summer to replace the likes of Kadri/Bura/Nuke and maybe even Kuemper if you don't have a 2023 1st and also further depleted the pool?

I also don't understand why people are so keen on going all-in when we are already #1 in the league and on paper can match up with any other team. Regardless of what happens this team is easily good enough to win a cup already. They probably won't but it will come down to luck, injuries and ultimately how our top guns will perform in the playoffs. No move you make right now will significantly improve your chances to win a cup this year. Maybe you even disrupt team chemistry and make the team worse like they arguably did last year with Nemeth and Soda.

Thats exactly when you should save your assets IMO for next year or the year after where the team might have obvious holes that you will need to overcome to seriously challenge for a cup.

What exactly are the Avs trying to do here? Stack their stacked forward core further?
Why?

Isn't goaltending and maybe D (depending on what happens with Byram) a far bigger hole even if ultimately they should be good enough to win it anyways if things go their way. And if they don't then well odds are no move would have changed the outcome anyways.

 

[MSSLYNX]

I think the problem is, Compher is just like the majority of the Flyers forward. He's a middle 6 forward just like Atkinson, Farabee, Konecny, Hayes, JVR, Laughton, Brassard, Frost, and Lindblom. It's not that Compher isn't a useful player, it's that he'd be redundant on this team. He's the kind of player they need to move on from in hopes of finding some actual top 6 forwards.

Atkinson, Farabee and Konecny are all top 6 players. No way they are 3rd liners with 2nd line upside. Frost is still an unknown. Agree on others all bottom 6.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Frank Seravalli just confirmed Adrian Dater’s rumor on the DFO show that St. Louis are in on Giroux.

 

[Bender]

I think the problem is, Compher is just like the majority of the Flyers forward. He's a middle 6 forward just like Atkinson, Farabee, Konecny, Hayes, JVR, Laughton, Brassard, Frost, and Lindblom. It's not that Compher isn't a useful player, it's that he'd be redundant on this team. He's the kind of player they need to move on from in hopes of finding some actual top 6 forwards.

I mean I get that part of it but what's the plan going forward? That's what I wrote in my original message - are the Flyers all set to start competing with teams like Tampa and Toronto starting next year or is it more likely that they are going to need some time to retool as well as do some building ?

IF the plan is to move on from one of your good top-6 players in exchange for some help on the blueline, then wouldn't a player like Compher make sense to help fill that gap? I mean, there are a lot of different ways to build a team.

Unfortunately for you guys, it's Fletcher and I've got no faith in him at all. I can't even believe he brought back his old buddy Yeo as coach when he was terrible in St-Louis AND Minnesota. I feel for you guys because I think you're a better team than what you're showing but it's difficult when you don't have the right coach and you've got questionable leadership to put it politely.

 

[StoneHands]

Atkinson, Farabee and Konecny are all top 6 players. No way they are 3rd liners with 2nd line upside. Frost is still an unknown. Agree on others all bottom 6.

When I said middle 6 I meant players who should be slotted on a 2nd or 3rd line. That doesn't mean Atkinson, Konecny, and Farabee are 3d liners, they're just more suitable for a 2nd line roll. Sure, they can play on a top line in a pinch but if a team wants to be a contender, those three should be on a 2nd line. If Giroux is gone, Couturier is the only legitimate top line player on the team so my point was, adding another guy whos going to chip in 30-40 points doesn't really move the needle.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's worth a 1st and B level prospect.

1st and B prospect
or
2nd and A prospect

The other tricky part is Giroux has only 3 teams on his list? That limits his value IMO.

 

[Bender]

Don't the Avs have a significant number of players hitting UFA status after this season that they would want to re-sign before Giroux? I'm talking about Burakovsky, Kadri, Nichushkin and a goal tender.

The Avs were always unlikely to bring back Kadri after this season regardless of the type of season he's currently having. Prior to this season, that kind of player as a UFA was always going to get too many years with a contract that probably was going to start with a 6 and now it's still going to be too many years and it might just start with an 8. He's going to be 32 in the fall - can't see the Avs making that kind of commitment even at $6per because he's likely to get a 4 or 5 year contract.

I can see the Avs giving Newhook a chance as #2C and look to the trade market if it doesn't work and he's not quite ready yet.

Burakovsky is another guy they are unlikely to bring back. He's a good skill player but is also going to be looking for a big contract and will likely price himself out of what the Avs would be willing to pay for him. I can see a team giving him a 6X6 deal and I can't see the Avs doing that.

Nikushkin is a different story. I think they'll do all they can to keep him. He's become too important to the Avs - as crazy as that might sound - for a player who was only a reclamation project a mere 3 years ago. He drives every line he's on and is the Avs best two-way player... they'll find a way to keep him long-term even if they have to overpay him a bit.

Goaltending depends a lot on how well Kuemper & Francouz play in the playoffs. Kuemper has settled in after taking some time to adjust to not needing to have to stand on his head making 40 saves every night to give his team a chance to win to just being solid when he needs to be. We'll see how that plays out. I think they'll keep one of those guys paired with a rookie (Annunen).

 

[Foppberg]

1st and B prospect
or
2nd and A prospect

The other tricky part is Giroux has only 3 teams on his list? That limits his value IMO.

Yup. A 1st + Barron would be pretty damn good for The Flyers, or at least as much as you could expect for a pending free agent.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Ideally, Giroux should fetch a 1st and a prospect one step or level up from the one Montreal got. Not a top or surefire prospect, but one witha little more potential than the kid habs got.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yup. A 1st + Barron would be pretty damn good for The Flyers, or at least as much as you could expect for a pending free agent.

Remember this one. In a few years, posters are going to try to use the Giroux pending UFA return as a base for someone else and ignore the context that Giroux had 3 teams on his list.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Remember this one. In a few years, posters are going to try to use the Giroux pending UFA return as a base for someone else and ignore the context that Giroux had 3 teams on his list.

Well, we don't know how many teams are on Giroux's list. There's one guy in Colorado reporting there's 3 teams.