CHL working on a deal with the NCAA, any truth?

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Yes, the CHL can mandate terms by which a player plays in one CHL league versus another. They don't have jurisdiction regarding the NCAA, which operates outside their umbrella.
The CHL can dictate the terms where there signed players can go. The OHL refused to release its players during the COVID lockdown to play in the USHL. The CHL can stop its players from jumping accross the pond to play in any European league, whether professional or not.
 
The CHL can dictate the terms where there signed players can go. The OHL refused to release its players during the COVID lockdown to play in the USHL.
We’re not talking about players jumping to ncaa and then jumping back to their CHL team the next year.

I’m not sure how much power you think the CHL has but they don’t own your soul once you sign a standard player agreement. Any argument that they have the right to stop you playing hockey outside their CHL/Hockey Canada umbrella is an argument that they are professional players.
 
No they wouldn’t
Not even close
So NCAA D1 schools take 19 and 20 yr olds from inferior leagues (Jr A), but they'd have no place for some of the best 20 and 21 year olds from superior leagues (CHL) ????
That Makes A Lot Of Sense
Somehow i knew this thread would turn into an NCAA v CHL dick measuring contest. Never change hf....never change.
 
So NCAA D1 schools take 19 and 20 yr olds from inferior leagues (Jr A), but they'd have no place for some of the best 20 and 21 year olds from superior leagues (CHL) ????
That Makes A Lot Of Sense
Somehow i knew this thread would turn into an NCAA v CHL dick measuring contest. Never change hf....never change.

The quote I responded to was OA's player in the CHL could choose any team they wanted in this hypothetical scenario.

"OAs in the CHL would have their choice of which school they wanted to go"

there is a maximum OA in the CHL for a year of 180 players (3 per team, 60 teams)

So every OA player can just say. Those michigan wolverines want my services guaranteed. North Dakota and their strict recruiting practices is taking every OA player available from the NCAA?
 
It’s great that you confirm that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

That’s cute
So Alexander Barre Boulet would have been a freshman in the NCAA in 18/19
and by your assertion would have been the best player in the league.
So he would have been better than a little known player by the name of Cale Makar (maybe you’ve heard of him) who was a full blown superstar in the NCAA that year

Nice theory though
 
I don't know if an agreement would benefit either league. The CHL would have to protect at least 18 year olds and ideally 19 year olds too. CHL has lost some talent to NCAA since NILs but I don't think it's been enough to warrant radical change. Celebrini, Power, Fantilli and Makar are/were huge losses for the CHL, but they've gotten some good - if lesser - prospects in Brzustewicz and Pastujov, who traditionally might've gone NCAA.

CHL having guys play their 16 year old season and graduate early to leave after one season wouldn't be good for the league. The CHL franchises are businesses and that is a massive disadvantage - some of these NCAA programs routinely lose money and losses are covered by the school. I think there's more players in the CHL than most would expect who have parents paying for spots on rosters.
Unless the kids are done HS and get accepted into college at 17, pretty much all of the kids would be 18 (ie. drafted or due to late birthdays past Septe 15, have to enroll as freshmen in NCAA).

What does the NCAA require the CHL to change in order for the kids to be eligible for the NCAA?

What is the benefit for either side?

Probably see more benefit for the NCAA as they have a larger pool of talent to recruit from and have players ready to make a big impact who have 2-4 years in the CHL.

Players get to play against older competition in the NCAA after age 18.

CHL, probably the one that gets the least unless you are going to count getting kids in tier II like AJHL, OJHL, BCHL Kids that would have played there vs go CHL to maintain eligibility.

Bascially CHL would become a younger if some 18/19 year olds go to ncaa to play against 18-24 year olds.
 
We’re not talking about players jumping to ncaa and then jumping back to their CHL team the next year.

I’m not sure how much power you think the CHL has but they don’t own your soul once you sign a standard player agreement. Any argument that they have the right to stop you playing hockey outside their CHL/Hockey Canada umbrella is an argument that they are professional players.

I once had the same line of thinking as you but the poster badgerbruce corrected me....here was his response,
Oh, there’s A LOT the CHL can do if a player decides to just bolt. Just read the CHL current Standard Player Agreement — it’s a legally enforceable contract which automatically renews each season unless the team voids it. Section 9 (Recourses of the Club) outlines all the breach of contract legal steps and injunctive relief the club/league will pursue if a player even attempts to play for another team without the express permission of the team/league. The Standard Player Agreement also “includes the right to legally enjoin the Player from playing hockey for any amateur or professional club other than in the NHL pursuant to the NHL-CHL Agreement.” There’s also a short section (11) dealing with “Termination by the Player” (you basically can’t terminate the contract) and a longer section (12) dealing with “Termination by the Club” (we own you until we don’t want to).

The NCAA can go right ahead and allow CHLers, but the CHL will absolutely use the courts to enforce the contracts and prevent players from leaving.

The CHL has a very lucrative transfer agreement with the NHL that is worth upwards of fifteen million dollars a year. It ensures that the only way they can lose their top players under the age of 20 is to the NHL. CHL players cannot even play in the AHL (and so far no court has overturned this). There is no way they would allow a Connor Bedard to bolt the Regina Pats to go and play for North Dakota. There are so many things they could do to prevent that above and beyond their standard player contract. You are aware that once a player signs a contract agreement with the U.S. NTDP they are on a monetary hook of 50k dollars per season if they leave the program for another junior circuit like the CHL. What do you think would stop the CHL from putting something very similar into their current standard agreements...."oh you want to leave the London Knights to go play your 18 year old season for the Michigan Wolverines....sure, that will be 100k...oh there is no way in hell that the NCAA would allow the Michigan Wolverines to buy out your contract....well I guess you aint going are you!"

Furthermore it's not like the NCAA can say that they will ignore any contract signed by CHL players. The CHL has transfer agreements with various European Federations, Hockey Canada and even USA Hockey. If the NCAA were to say "tough luck, we are taking these players cause we don't recognize these contracts" then CHL can very likely say good luck in having any of your players play in sanctioned IIHF events.

The NHL will also have a say in this matter as well. You can think want you want but the NHL loves the fact that the CHL allows them to have a huge degree of control over their players and the NHL wants to keep the CHL viable. Think about this, many AHL clubs are owned by NHL teams or have close affiliations with them. These AHL clubs would love to have a recent high end draft pick play for them for marketing purposes but the NHL prevents that from happening because of the agreement they have with the CHL. They obviously want to keep the CHL as strong as possible.

As an aside, I was told that about a dozen years ago, when the NCAA first began relaxing eligibility rules (allowing tennis players for instance to play in pro tournaments as long as they did not accept compensation) they actually approached the CHL. Their aim was to allow 16 and 17 year old players to play in the CHL and still maintain eligibility. The CHL told them to go pound sand because it was never happening.
 
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The Standard Player Agreement is right here, maybe it's changed a bit since then but likely not drastically (this is from November of 2015).


Not sure what agreement the guy you quoted is looking at.

That guy was pretty high up at one time....I trust him....and again, no way in hell the CHL would allow its players to jump ship prior to their over age year. They could easily put prohibitive out clauses into the agreement. The long and the short of it is that CHL players would be bound to the CHL until their 20th year.

Quick Google search and I found what BadgerBruce was stating https://www.charneylawyers.com/docs...hl-standard-player-form.pdf?sfvrsn=11cf93e2_2

Basically both agreements state that player will be playing for a specific club for a set amount of time. Player isn't going anywhere unless the team says so.
 
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That guy was pretty high up at one time....I trust him....and again, no way in hell the CHL would allow its players to jump ship prior to their over age year. They could easily put prohibitive out clauses into the agreement. The long and the short of it is that CHL players would be bound to the CHL until their 20th year.
I don’t care if random internet dude was “high up”. Does he have a standard player agreement that I can look at or are we just going “trust me bro” secondhand compared to the very real one I am looking at?

And you still haven’t gotten over a threshold question. How can players be subject to very professional sounding clauses with non-competes and such while remaining amateurs? That’s kind of a big “one or the other” point in all this.
 
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I don’t care if random internet dude was “high up”. Does he have a standard player agreement that I can look at or are we just going “trust me bro” secondhand compared to the very real one I am looking at?

And you still haven’t gotten over a threshold question. How can players be subject to very professional sounding clauses with non-competes and such while remaining amateurs? That’s kind of a big “one or the other” point in all this.
Look at my edited post above...that random internet dude was spot on....so how can NTDP players be bound to the program and still maintain NCAA eligibility???
 
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That’s cute
So Alexander Barre Boulet would have been a freshman in the NCAA in 18/19
and by your assertion would have been the best player in the league.
So he would have been better than a little known player by the name of Cale Makar (maybe you’ve heard of him) who was a full blown superstar in the NCAA that year

Nice theory though
The guy posted 68 points in his AHL debut season in 18/19 and that league is without a doubt much harder than either NCAA or CHL. Obviously when compared to Makar or even the better NCAA NHL drafted prospects in 18/19 he isnt anywhere close to them but its rather dishonest to claim that he wouldnt have been one of the top freshmen in the nation that year when he had a really good rookie debut season in the AHL, or that CHL OAs wouldnt take up the top half of NCAA scoring. They easily would.
 
NTDP players can and have left the program and aren’t blackballed from playing hockey.

They have a prohibitive monetary out clause...CHL teams have to pay the program a set amount of money for their release. A few years back it was 50k per season. Of course the program can waive the fee if they choose to do so just like a CHL team could waive a player but the fact of the matter remains that NTDP players sign what you deem to be professional sounding contracts with clauses and they still maintain eligibility. Would be no different for CHL players.
 
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The guy posted 68 points in his AHL debut season in 18/19 and that league is without a doubt much harder than either NCAA or CHL. Obviously when compared to Makar or even the better NCAA NHL prospects in 18/19 he isnt close to them but its rather dishonest to claim that he wouldnt have been one of the top freshmen in the nation that year when he had a really good rookie debut season in the AHL, or that CHL OAs wouldnt take up the top half of NCAA scoring. They easily would.

The assertion wasnt top freshman......... it was best player in the NCAA.
So nothing dishonest on my part

He wouldnt have been the best player in the NCAA, if you want to stick with the same claim as the other guy then go ahead

Makar and adam fox would have still been miles of ahead of him that year and thought of as better players in the NCAA in this hypothetical scenario.
 
That guy was pretty high up at one time....I trust him....and again, no way in hell the CHL would allow its players to jump ship prior to their over age year. They could easily put prohibitive out clauses into the agreement. The long and the short of it is that CHL players would be bound to the CHL until their 20th year.

Quick Google search and I found what BadgerBruce was stating https://www.charneylawyers.com/docs...hl-standard-player-form.pdf?sfvrsn=11cf93e2_2

Basically both agreements state that player will be playing for a specific club for a set amount of time. Player isn't going anywhere unless the team says so.
As a transactional lawyer, it says you can terminate if they don’t pay you (sounds professional yeah?)

What it says is “if you don’t follow this agreement, you acknowledge we may go to a judge and ask for an injunction”, whether an injunction is actually granted is up to a judge. They have discretion, and would look towards, you guessed it, if the compensation received justifies an injunctive action weighing the harm to the ohl team and harm to the player if they are prohibited.

That’s a very scary sounding clause that’s put into a ton of contracts. It actually means very little. I'm gonna guess BadgerBruce is not a lawyer by saying "there's a lot the CHL can do" and his interpretation looking at the language of the contract. "We own you" is a particularly bad interpretation.

Notice that’s also like five years older than the whl one I posted that doesn’t say that. Sorry but “you’re our amateur slave” isn’t gonna pass muster. If they are pros, ncaa is a non-starter and they will never be eligible. If they aren’t pros, they have no enforceable machismo to prevent a player from leaving the league. They’d have to rely on ncaa teams not touching their 19 year olds by their own choice, without power to take action in that regard.
 
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As a transactional lawyer, it says you can terminate if they don’t pay you (sounds professional yeah?)

What it says is “if you don’t follow this agreement, you acknowledge we may go to a judge and ask for an injunction”, whether an injunction is actually granted is up to a judge. They have discretion, and would look towards, you guessed it, if the compensation received justifies an injunctive action weighing the harm to the ohl team and harm to the player if they are prohibited.

That’s a very scary sounding clause that’s put into a ton of contracts. It actually means very little.

Notice that’s also like five years older than the whl one I posted that doesn’t say that. Sorry but “you’re our amateur slave” isn’t gonna pass muster. If they are pros, ncaa is a non-starter and they will never be eligible. If they aren’t pros, they have no enforceable machismo to prevent a player from leaving the league. They’d have to rely on ncaa teams not touching their 19 year olds by their own choice, without power to take action in that regard.

What makes them pros...because they are paid a stipend? Because they are paid a grand total of 900 for playing into May? You are aware that current NCAA athletes now receive cost of attendance stipends (upwards of 5000) to play?

Again, you can think what you want but all evidence points to the fact that the CHL has the ability to enforce their standard agreements preventing players from playing anywhere else. What stops an OHL player from earning money playing in a pro league in Europe as a 19 year old (the contract and various agreements between federations). What prevents an OHL player from jumping to the USHL (the contract and various agreements between federations...see COVID lock out). What prevents CHL players from jumping to other various junior leagues in North America or Europe (yup you guessed it the contract and various agreements between federations).

The OBannon and Alston cases basically torpedoed the quaint concept of amateurism that the NCAA tried to hide behind. Money is flowing in now through the NIL deals, the current chairman of the NCAA has outwardly called for the direct payment of athletes to the tune of 30k each. So you think a weekly stipend and a bonus pay of 900 is going to make CHL players professionals in the eyes of the courts and the NCAA????

No, this will happen and yes it will change the hockey landscape but what will not change is the CHL maintaining control of their players through their 19 year old seasons.
 
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Again, you can think what you want but all evidence points to the fact that the CHL has the ability to enforce their standard agreements preventing players from playing anywhere else.
This is just pure wishful thinking at this point They don’t have an abiiity to do anything like that. They have the ability to stop paying salary if a player does drugs or gets suspended from the OHL, lol. That’s what the standard player agreement is about. Not BadgerBruce’s belief that they own players soul and can prevent them from playing hockey, lol.

You won’t be proven correct unless and until a player tries to go to an ncaa team, an ohl team doesn’t let them and a judge agrees with them and prevents the player from playing ncaa hockey. Good luck with that. This is all hypothetical as there is no real indication that the ncaa is even permitting former ohl players into the league right now.

Lots of wishful thinking and hypotheticals going around
 
This is just pure wishful thinking at this point They don’t have an abiiity to do anything like that. They have the ability to stop paying salary if a player does drugs or gets suspended from the OHL, lol. That’s what the standard player agreement is about. Not BadgerBruce’s belief that they own players soul and can prevent them from playing hockey, lol.

You won’t be proven correct unless and until a player tries to go to an ncaa team, an ohl team doesn’t let them and a judge agrees with them and prevents the player from playing ncaa hockey. Good luck with that. This is all hypothetical as there is no real indication that the ncaa is even permitting former ohl players into the league right now.

Lots of wishful thinking and hypotheticals going around

Seems like it is you that is indulging in wishful thinking. Tell me, if said CHL players could play anywhere they want then why do they not do so? Why did Shane Wright sit out an entire year when he could have said hey I will go and play in the USHL? Simply because the OHL (for whatever twisted reason) refused to grant him the release to do so. The WHL allowed it's players to go to the U for the season. You will notice that Mathew Savoie did not stick around in the USHL the year after....it could have been because he didn't want to but his WHL contract would have prevented him from doing so anyway. Talk to any agent (I have) and they will tell you that yes, the CHL does enforce its contracts and yes the players are bound to the league through their 19 year old season.

You are right though, in that a player could sue the CHL for relief but you then have to wonder why they haven't done so already??? Seems to me that preventing a 19 year old player from earning a pay check in say Europe would be a slam dunk case but yet here we are, no CHL player has done it.

The CHL will guard its model at all costs, they wouldn't give two f@@ks about the NCAA viewing them as professionals but this goes beyond that. Agents and players are saying hey why should we be ineligible? What reason does the NCAA have to bar them? It would seem they have less and less reasons to do so and that is why this is happening
 
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Seems like it is you that is indulging in wishful thinking. Tell me, if said CHL players could play anywhere they want then why do they not do so? Why did Shane Wright sit out an entire year when he could have said hey I will go and play in the USHL?
To not forfeit his OHL eligibility. Not the “gotcha” I think you were thinking of. Probably an immigration/visa thing involved there as well when crossing the border.
 
You are right though, in that a player could sue the CHL for relief but you then have to wonder why they haven't done so already??? Seems to me that preventing a 19 year old player from earning a pay check in say Europe would be a slam dunk case but yet here we are, no CHL player has done it.
You mean like when Sarnia tried to stop Yakupov from playing in the KHL during the 2012-13 lockout and stomped its foot and said we have the CHL-NHL transfer agreement… and then backed down and he played in the KHL anyways? Yeah? Funny how that injunctive relief clause seemed to disappear between 2010 and 2015….
 
To not forfeit his OHL eligibility. Not the “gotcha” I think you were thinking of.
Really?? You think that he wouldn't have minded options on where to play the following year?? Come on man, you know better. I think anyone of those high end players would have said "F@@K my OHL eligibility" because I want to play now! He could have easily said,...oh gee I guess I forfeited my OHL eligibility,,,,what oh what willI I do now....hmmmm maybe go earn 250k in Switzerland!'

Again come on man...now you are just being silly
 
You mean like when Sarnia tried to stop Yakupov from playing in the KHL during the 2012-13 lockout and stomped its foot and said we have the CHL-NHL transfer agreement… and then backed down and he played in the KHL anyways? Yeah? Funny how that injunctive relief clause seemed to disappear between 2010 and 2015….

Euro players do not sign standard agreement contracts...you should know that. That's why a Euro can be drafted out of the CHL and yet still play in the AHL the year after....it all has to do with the transfer agreements the CHL has with the respective European federations....now the NCAA could ask the same for American born players but unlikely that the CHL would agree
 
The CHL will guard its model at all costs, they wouldn't give two f@@ks about the NCAA viewing them as professionals but this goes beyond that.
Must be why it’s all CHL people “leaking” that CHL players may be eligible for NCAA, lol. They’re sh*tting bricks that the BCHL breakaway will pull more kids across the country away from CHL, which the USHL is already doing. Americans don’t play in the CHL anymore. Smallest numbers in forever this year. Celebrini, Fantilli, Power… they’re bleeding top CANADIAN talent to the ncaa ranks because it’s become extremely and abundantly obvious that “ncaa is for kids that can’t hack CHL or aren’t serious about pro hockey” is a massively outdated and false notion.

You ever watched a WHL game? Their advertisements are basically begging kids to play WHL and not NCAA. “Play the best, the scholarship option is great!” The fear is there because the concerns are real.

You and landy can pretend all you want that the CHL hold all the cards here and the ncaa is beholden to them because of some non-existent court case to challenge their amateur rules (which have nothing to do with NIL, a subtle but distinct difference). The abundantly obvious fact is the scholarship option is no longer enticing enough to say “it’s not all hockey with no school” while the ncaa is literally the option of “have your cake and eat it too. Get an education while playing in an nhl feeder league.”

The CHL wants their players to stay ncaa eligible to reverse this bleeding and it have to buckle up and accept the terms of the ncaa if that’s gonna happen.
 

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