CHL working on a deal with the NCAA, any truth?

[Fixed to Ruin]

If you're an 18 year old elite hockey player the list of leagues you could theoretically play in is quite long when you sit down and think about it. Perhaps allocating the age groups differently might make some sense. Maybe have a league of elite 16-18 year olds and a league for 18-20 year olds for example.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

If you're an 18 year old elite hockey player the list of leagues you could theoretically play in is quite long when you sit down and think about it. Perhaps allocating the age groups differently might make some sense. Maybe have a league of elite 16-18 year olds and a league for 18-20 year olds for example.

That would require a complete overhaul of the junior hockey concept in North America, which would take a lot to happen. This rumor of CHLers automatically being NCAA eligible in the coming years would have humongous ripple effects as is.

 

[Bjindaho]

Honestly, I could see all 20 year-olds being NCAA eligible whether they played Major Junior or not. Something to keep in mind is that the number of Americans that this would impact isn't necessarily as big as some would think (because the USHL), but it might impact some of the kids playing in lower leagues and prep.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

That would require a complete overhaul of the junior hockey concept in North America, which would take a lot to happen. This rumor of CHLers automatically being NCAA eligible in the coming years would have humongous ripple effects as is.

I don't disagree. Usually the NHL is the league that has the most amount of influence. A few observations I've bookmarked in my mind on this topic. For example...

• NHL likes to float changing the draft age to 19 from time to time (probably will never happen but it keeps getting brought up.)
• NHL franchises that lament that that prospects that are too good for the CHL but not allowed to play because CHL players aren't allowed to play in the AHL at 18 due to the CHL/NHL agreement.
• NHL franchises that force trades in the CHL to give their prospects more opportunity, play with better players, play in the playoffs/Memorial Cup.

Perhaps its time for some reform in elite level hockey in Canada to allow the needs of players to play against quality competition to be met in a better way.

 

[ginomini]

This would hurt U-Sports more than any other league imo! Would be amazing for the post hockey careers of CHL players

 

[bigdog16]

This would kill the CHL. The top end players would want to play at the highest level available to them. The 18 year old 1st rounders go to college all day over playing in the CHL vs significantly inferior competition

 

[Kshahdoo]

So the CHL doesn't allow kids to play in the AHL, but will allow them to play in NCAA?

 

[Hockeyville USA]

This would kill the CHL. The top end players would want to play at the highest level available to them. The 18 year old 1st rounders go to college all day over playing in the CHL vs significantly inferior competition

The CHL would still get those kids to play their 16 and 17 year old seasons in the CHL. But it would kill the overall competition level as current CHLers have to play their 18 and 19 year old seasons in major junior if they're not in the NHL, and in this hypothetical, CHLers wouldn't be in the CHL as 18 and 19 year olds and would be at Michigan, Boston College, North Dakota, etc.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Something tells me that this is much ado about nothing, but still something that should be done for other reasons. How many CHL players actually move on to CIS hockey each year anyways? I am guessing that number is pretty small in the end. A certain percentage of those kids will still want to play CIS hockey simply because they are Canadian (i.e. for cultural reasons). Even with the NIL rules, I have a hard time seeing the NCAA granting eligibility to CHL kids who have signed NHL contracts.

If I am wrong, the upside is that this will allow NCAA DI hockey to expand without a material dilution of its product.

The historic NCAA/CHL dynamic has always been about fixing the market for players. The skeptic in me questions how much either side really wants to change that.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This would kill the CHL. The top end players would want to play at the highest level available to them. The 18 year old 1st rounders go to college all day over playing in the CHL vs significantly inferior competition

That’s a good point. It might benefit CHL players, but I don’t think it benefits the CHL.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The NCAA still classifying CHLers as professionals has been for another reason: keeping the NCAA as American as possible. The NCAA is approximately 63% American and 29% Canadian. The CHL is approximately 87% Canadian. If you allowed CHLers to be NCAA eligible, the NCAA would flip demographically to 40-50% American and 40% Canadian, if not more. USA Hockey wants as many kids from Minnetonka MN, Canton MI, Stoneham MA, White Plains NY, Downers Grove IL, etc to get the NCAA chance as opposed to far more kids from Mississauga, Moose Jaw, Maple Ridge, etc.

The NCAA is not an American protectionist organization. It cares not where players come from. If you need proof, just look at the Olympic sport rosters at these schools. Hell, a lot of DII and even DIII coaches recruit heavily internationally.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The CHL would still get those kids to play their 16 and 17 year old seasons in the CHL. But it would kill the overall competition level as current CHLers have to play their 18 and 19 year old seasons in major junior if they're not in the NHL, and in this hypothetical, CHLers wouldn't be in the CHL as 18 and 19 year olds and would be at Michigan, Boston College, North Dakota, etc.

I have to imagine that this would be structured to still “lock” kids into the CHL for 4 seasons. Basically the NCAA can take the talent that goes to U sports or gets AHL/Euro deals once they’ve played out CHL time. Not top talent. Perhaps I’m wrong though.

 

[jfb392]

I followed WEHP for a number of years.

To answer OP’s question regarding any truth to the post, I would trust the source as much as I trust someone like David Pagnotta, which is to say not at all.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

The NCAA is not an American protectionist organization. It cares not where players come from. If you need proof, just look at the Olympic sport rosters at these schools. Hell, a lot of DII and even DIII coaches recruit heavily internationally.

USA Hockey & the NCAA route are directly linked. There is an interest to be protectionist. The NCAA HQ people don't give a f***, but many of the people running NCAA Hockey are USA Hockey affiliated, so my guess is there's interest behind the scenes to keep NCAA Men's Hockey as American as possible.

 

[Bjorn Le]

This would kill the CHL. The top end players would want to play at the highest level available to them. The 18 year old 1st rounders go to college all day over playing in the CHL vs significantly inferior competition

If this was the case, the NCAA would’ve got rid of the rule along time ago. No, the NCAA changing its rules is almost certainly going to impact (1) player’s choosing the BCHL/USHL over CHL because they want to keep college eligibility and (2) CHL graduates now having the choice to go to NCAA over Usports or (predominantly lower tier) European professional leagues. You’re not going to see star CHLers leave their teams for college.

The CHL benefits because they start getting back some of the top talent they’ve been bleeding to Junior A and high level US-hockey and the NCAA benefits because they get an influx of top tier CHL graduates who are better than much of the current NCAA player base.

 

[IWillMakeTheNHL]

The NCAA still classifying CHLers as professionals has been for another reason: keeping the NCAA as American as possible. The NCAA is approximately 63% American and 29% Canadian. The CHL is approximately 87% Canadian. If you allowed CHLers to be NCAA eligible, the NCAA would flip demographically to 40-50% American and 40% Canadian, if not more. USA Hockey wants as many kids from Minnetonka MN, Canton MI, Stoneham MA, White Plains NY, Downers Grove IL, etc to get the NCAA chance as opposed to far more kids from Mississauga, Moose Jaw, Maple Ridge, etc.

are those town names random? If not what is the criteria you are saying because they seem random

 

[Hockeyville USA]

are those town names random? If not what is the criteria you are saying because they seem random

Random examples of towns that many in the hockey world would be familiar with.

 

[Breakers]

I mean the CHL Top Prospects game is ending and being replaced with what sounds like CHL vs USHL/ NTDP

that communication channel is opening

not sure why NIL is being mentioned as it isnt relevant in the NCAA hockey sphere or in relevance to actual CHL contracts.

 

[Corso]

There was a thread on this exact topic over on the NCAA/USports forum

NCAA Eligibility & CHL

To what extents do NCAA teams investigate the 48hr rule/exhibition games if CHL drafted kids attend a team tryout. Has anyone people heard of actual cases where kids stayed longer than 48 hours for a CHL team tryout, played exhibition game, never made a roster spot but that experience then...

forums.hfboards.com

BadgerBruce made some very informative and interesting comments concerning the CHL's take on NCAA eligibility. CHL standard contract agreements state that players would have to stay in the CHL through their 19 year old season. I highly doubt that they would change the contract that would cause them to lose players to the NCAA at 18 or 19.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of incoming freshman are 20 or 21 years of age so the CHL contract agreements wouldn't really matter all that much. Elite 16 and 17 year old players who are dead set at playing college hockey at 18 or 19 would simply sign on to play in the USHL or try and make the NTDP.

I also highly doubt that this has much to do with what Hockey Canada or the CHL wants but rather everything to do with the pending lawsuits facing the NCAA. The most pertinent one that has the most relationship to the CHL/NCAA eligibility is the Matthew Bewley and Ryan Bewley v. The National Collegiate Athletic Association, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois, No. 1:23-cv-15570. Here two brothers are suing the NCAA for being labeled professional athletes by the NCAA and their subsequent ineligibility to play D-1 basketball, So far the courts have refused to grant the brothers a temporary injunction to make them eligible and it should be noted that they received over 350k in direct compensation for playing in the OTE academy.

It is highly unlikely that the NCAA current amateur eligibility rules will hold up to the myriad of lawsuits the organization is facing so the rumor that CHL players will become eligible within the next year to year and half probably has a lot of truth in it.

 

[bigdog16]

I have to imagine that this would be structured to still “lock” kids into the CHL for 4 seasons. Basically the NCAA can take the talent that goes to U sports or gets AHL/Euro deals once they’ve played out CHL time. Not top talent. Perhaps I’m wrong though.

If this is the case it ends up destroying the US junior hockey landscape.

If this was the case, the NCAA would’ve got rid of the rule along time ago. No, the NCAA changing its rules is almost certainly going to impact (1) player’s choosing the BCHL/USHL over CHL because they want to keep college eligibility and (2) CHL graduates now having the choice to go to NCAA over Usports or (predominantly lower tier) European professional leagues. You’re not going to see star CHLers leave their teams for college.

The CHL benefits because they start getting back some of the top talent they’ve been bleeding to Junior A and high level US-hockey and the NCAA benefits because they get an influx of top tier CHL graduates who are better than much of the current NCAA player base.

Tell me why top end prospects would want to stay in the CHL as 18 and 19 year olds to feast on 16 and 17 year olds instead of playing against significantly better competition in the NCAA?

 

[Bubbles]

USA Hockey & the NCAA route are directly linked. There is an interest to be protectionist. The NCAA HQ people don't give a f***, but many of the people running NCAA Hockey are USA Hockey affiliated, so my guess is there's interest behind the scenes to keep NCAA Men's Hockey as American as possible.

Is there really? If this rumor is true, then the NCAA wants more Canadians in their league and less Americans. The NCAA wants whats best for itself, not USA Hockey.

There have been also an increasing amount of European players in college ranks, so that's taking more spots away from American players.

Does Hockey Canada hate Junior A so much that it's willing to let the NCAA poach it's players? That is the crux of the argument and a reason why the BCHL left in the first place.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Gotta imagine it has something to do with players potentially being able to go the NCAA route after they age out of the CHL.

Sometimes you have players that did well in the CHL, but aren't ready for the AHL

 

[Bjorn Le]

If this is the case it ends up destroying the US junior hockey landscape.

Tell me why top end prospects would want to stay in the CHL as 18 and 19 year olds to feast on 16 and 17 year olds instead of playing against significantly better competition in the NCAA?

For one, if players (read: more likely their parents) want to play college, they will choose that before going to the CHL. For two, the CHL isn’t changing their rules to allow players to get out of their agreements to go to the NCAA before the end of their eligibility. The NHL and the IIHF aren’t going to allow that either even if the NCAA unilaterally makes a change.

The CHL isn’t a 16/17 year old league anyways. The vast majority of the players playing big minutes are 18/19/20 year olds and the young players who do play top minutes are the highly skilled ones who would be playing top minutes in the NCAA too.

 

[bigdog16]

For one, if players (read: more likely their parents) want to play college, they will choose that before going to the CHL. For two, the CHL isn’t changing their rules to allow players to get out of their agreements to go to the NCAA before the end of their eligibility. The NHL and the IIHF aren’t going to allow that either even if the NCAA unilaterally makes a change.

The CHL isn’t a 16/17 year old league anyways. The vast majority of the players playing big minutes are 18/19/20 year olds and the young players who do play top minutes are the highly skilled ones who would be playing top minutes in the NCAA too.

Is there an agreement in place that doesn’t allow CHL to go to the NCAA right now? Because there have been CHL players who have gone to the NCAA before they aged out. Its currently the NCAA that has the strict rules.

For one, if players (read: more likely their parents) want to play college, they will choose that before going to the CHL. For two, the CHL isn’t changing their rules to allow players to get out of their agreements to go to the NCAA before the end of their eligibility. The NHL and the IIHF aren’t going to allow that either even if the NCAA unilaterally makes a change.

The CHL isn’t a 16/17 year old league anyways. The vast majority of the players playing big minutes are 18/19/20 year olds and the young players who do play top minutes are the highly skilled ones who would be playing top minutes in the NCAA too.

Also there are very few, if any, 16-17 year olds who would be playing top minutes in the NCAA. You are severely underestimating the level of NCAA hockey, there isn’t one D1 team who wouldn’t speedbag CHL teams

 

[Bjorn Le]

Is there an agreement in place that doesn’t allow CHL to go to the NCAA right now? Because there have been CHL players who have gone to the NCAA before they aged out. Its currently the NCAA that has the strict rules.

Their contracts...

Even if a player ignored that and risked repercussions, the CHL is part of the international hockey system and there would be consequences for the player (and likely the NCAA team that took the player) if they enrolled a player who was still under contract by their CHL team.

The NHL has a detailed transfer agreement with the CHL. I'm pretty sure the CHL also has transfer agreements with the European leagues they select from in the import draft. None of them, nor the IIHF, would look kindly on the NCAA for poaching players with contracts.

Also there are very few, if any, 16-17 year olds who would be playing top minutes in the NCAA. You are severely underestimating the level of NCAA hockey, there isn’t one D1 team who wouldn’t speedbag CHL teams

Where did I underestimate the NCAA? You're the one getting into it about the supposed qualities of two programs and (inaccurately) asserting that the CHL is a league of 16 and 17 year olds. Not sure why you're bringing up who would win would anyways. The Usports All Stars not infrequently defeat the Canadian World Junior team and likely would also defeat top NCAA programs occasionally as well if they played on a regular basis. They are different levels of competition, one route is not better than the other for all players in all situations.