You mistake me for a CHL apologist...I am not. I will tell you, however, that these CHL players will gain NCAA eligibility and that the CHL will hold them until the age of 20.....now you can back to your scheduled anti CHL rants.
CHL working on a deal with the NCAA, any truth?
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You mistake me for a CHL apologist...I am not. I will tell you, however, that these CHL players will gain NCAA eligibility and that the CHL will hold them until the age of 20.....now you can back to your scheduled anti CHL rants.
landy92mack29
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WarriorofTime
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That has nothing to do with the standard player agreement, lol. It has everything to do with the NHL-CHL transfer agreement and whether is drafted out of the CHL or goes there after they were already drafted.
And I am telling you that will not happen unless the NCAA decides to. Period.
WarriorofTime
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Hey man I hope you realize Swiss teams aren’t chasing 17 year olds who have immigration/visa considerations and limited import slots. Matthews couldn’t play in a couple games due to not being 18 yet. He has an early birthday within his draft year which is why he’s the only player to do that.
Um no it doesn't, Euro federations loan players out to the CHL....if they are drafted out of the CHL the respective Euro league gets a cut of the developmental fee and yes the said Euro player can return back and play in Europe as a pro and depending on how the transfer agreement was structured could even go on to play in the AHL.
And we are talking about 19 year old here man....again back to your anti CHL rants
WarriorofTime
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WarriorofTime
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And you think Swiss teams are so desperate to blow their much coveted import slots on 19 year olds if not for the mighty hand of the CHL? Lol. Those guys to high-end experienced pros. Juniors generally aren’t ready for the pro game.
landy92mack29
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he definitely shouldn't look up Alexander Nylander, Olli Juolevi, Henri Jokiharju, Filip Zadina, etc
WarriorofTime
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That has to do players in the CHL on loan. Not standard player agreements….
Not what was going on with Yakupov
Or Rasmus Sandin who jumped from the Soo Greyhounds to the AHL the very next year....
And he certainly doesn't realize that there are over 60 professional leagues in the continent or Europe where I'm sure that some high end first round NHL draft pick could land a spot as 19 year olds. I mean there are over 40 U-20 players in Liga alone but nah, why would they want to waste a spot on a foreigner...so what if he was just drafted in the top half of the first round draft....riiiiiiiight.
He was of the belief that once the NCAA makes CHL players eligible then the CHL would become just another USHL where the majority of the best 18 and 19 year olds would flock to the high end programs of the NCAA. That is not how this is going to end up though and being that he has a rabid hate on for the CHL, well then in his eyes those CHL players should never be eligible.
WarriorofTime
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Take the L man, lol. You tried to contradict me and after a big run around all you could do is cite some (probably outdated) "we may be entitled to seek injunctive relief" standard contract clause as you big gotcha as to why, but you're obviously not a lawyer and don't realize that isn't the big scary "GOTCHA! WE OWN YOU FOREVER" clause you think it was... Now you’re talking about players with NHL deals subject to the transfer agreement. You and landy can have all your fun thinking CHL gets all the benefits in this arrangement that doesn’t exist yet lol. Time will tell and you’ll be proven wrong.
A rabid hate, lmao. My man, I watch more CHL and NCAA games than 90 % of this board…
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You mean the very same standard contracts and transfer agreements I mentioned previously? You mean the fact that CHL players simply cannot pack up their belongings and play where ever they like, even when the NCAA makes them eligible? We provided you factual evidence time and time again that CHL contracts are binding (hell I didn't even realize Yakupov signed a binding agreement with the Sting and because of it the Russian Federation was fined for allowing to play in the KHL and yet you still foolishly believe that the NCAA will just completely ignore CHL contracts) and that 19 year old CHL players will not be allowed to play in the NCAA unless the CHL allows them to do so and I ask you again for the umpteenth time, why would they?????
So to reiterate for the last time, and certainly not for the benefit of WarriorofTime because his world view blinds him to facts and truths, but to others who may be wondering how this will play out.
The NCAA is under intense legal scrutiny. They have been on the wrong side of two major court decisions that have upended their "amateur" model.
They are facing several more lawsuits challenging them on everything from unlimited transfers to direct compensation of athletes for playing (pay to play). The NCAA is responding by drastically changing the concept of amateurism, allowing players stipends and the use of their name and likeness(due to court rulings). They are even proposing the direct payment of student athletes. The NCAA knows that enforcing eligibility on "amateur" pretenses is now untenable yet they are trying to build a new framework so that college athletics does not become the wild west or just another straight up minor pro league.
The NCAA once saw the CHL as a professional body because it allowed signed NHL players to play but now the same NCAA allows Europeans who were on loans to pro teams to play. They know that their ban on CHL players no longer would stand up to a court challenge. There are also many college coaches who are asking why is it that we cannot recruit CHL players.
Due to these pressures, the NCAA has begun exploring the issue of once again granting eligibility to CHL players. Many insiders are predicting that this will happen within the next year.
True, nothing has been set in stone yet but I believe that most agree that this will happen.
When it does, the landscape of hockey in North America will be vastly different. One thing that will remain constant, however, is that the CHL will retain the right to its players through their 19 year old season.
WarriorofTime
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Sadly you are unable to recognize facts but I will bite, what makes you think that the CHL will give up their right to players? Please don't go on a lunatic rant as to how the NCAA will simply not recognize those rights because everyone here can see that there is a pretty substantial body of evidence proving that the CHL does indeed have those rights and those rights cannot be ignored.
WarriorofTime
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Because you can’t stop players from playing hockey outside your jurisdiction unless they have a professional contract with valid consideration that would prevent that. Non-competes are hard enough to enforce for professionals in many industries, impossible for amateurs.
There is not because the ncaa has never allowed CHL players into the league so this would be brand new…
And yet the OHL stopped any of their players from going to the USHL and all contracts issued by the CHL are deemed as amateur in nature. All provinces and the states of Washington, Oregon, Michigan and Pennsylvania view them as such and have exempted all players under their umbrella from any labor laws. In short no government currently views the WHL, OHL or QMJHL as a professional entity.
You cannot cite one example of these amateur CHL players playing outside of their jurisdiction without the express permission of the CHL
WarriorofTime
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And did anyone fight it? Did a USHL team put them in the lineup anyways? Or did they all just say “ok” and not deal with the immigration aspect with Covid restrictions in place too complicating everything? Especially because one year in the USHL and then still not being ncaa eligible wasn’t exactly their dream path…
Only one who fought it was Yakupov and the OHL backed down by being like “well I guess he didn’t have legal representation”
So all the 16 year olds are hiring lawyers and making the non-compete enforceable? Is there a court order showing a successful CHL injunction? Why did the WHL contract not include it in 2015 unlike the ohl 2010 contract (that Yakupov disregarded and prevailed on)?
Bjorn Le
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You are legally wrong. And this is not even to speak of the IIHF sanctions that would be levied on the NCAA if they poached a CHL player with a contract and the pressure the NHL would exert for the NCAA interfering with the CHL, whom the NHL has a transfer agreement with and works closely with.
WarriorofTime
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I'm a lawyer and draft contracts. The enforceability of non-compete is something I know.
IIHF is only relevant if discussing international player transfers. This is subject to the USA Hockey/Hockey Canada Transfer Agreement for Canadians or dual USA/Canadian citizens moving to USA Hockey whenever a Canadian plays in the USHL for instance, there are some NCAA rules regarding international student-athletes but it's commonplace between USA-Canada, as there are a ton of Canadians throughout various NCAA sports. Not sure what you think IIHF has to do with it.
The USHL would have been liable for penalties and sanctions had they placed any OHL players on their rosters and you ought to know that. After all the Russian Hockey federation was fined for rostering Yakupov and there could have been further repercussions. If you are asking for a court case well then cite just one CHL player who broke their contract without any repercussions!!!!!
There certainly were no problems with WHL players in the USHL that Covid year and that is because the WHL granted those players an exemption to play.
You cannot give any factual evidence to your claim that CHL contracts are non binding and unenforceable. We have provided plenty of evidence that the CHL contracts and their transfer agreements with various hockey federations bind their players to the league until their over age season. Therefore this conversation is done and you can go back to your scheduled program of wishful thinking and bashing the CHL.
As an aside to everyone else, I do not dislike the CHL but believe it or not, I feel that their contracts are a form of indentured servitude. I can understand why they do it but I do not feel that it is right and that those players should have the opportunity to play in the various pro leagues when they are first able to. The CHL, however, is unlikely to change and just like the U.S. NTDP, they will exact their pound of flesh for the premature use of their players. The NCAA will not have access to their players until their over-age year and that isn't really fair.
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WarriorofTime
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Well now you're just gaslighting me, lol. There is nothing that shows the CHL preventing players from playing NCAA Hockey at 18 or 19 because that's never happened. lol. Probably not a fight they'd want when it gets into preventing amateurs from being able to attend the school they want and play hockey. The reason CHL players don't play in the NCAA is because the NCAA doesn't let them, not the other way around. An important distinction I think you're missing.
I can't even imagine the leaps and bounds a court would have to go to in order to enforce an injunction that says "this amateur player is an amateur so the NCAA has to let them the play, but they signed a contract with valid consideration while remaining an amateur so they are enjoined from playing in the NCAA before they are 20". Judges be judges but that's the most twisty logic I've ever heard and nobody is able to explain this other than just saying "nuh uh".
You may be a lawyer but the world of hockey contracts and agreements is clearly not your domain.
WarriorofTime
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Well to any young CHL players out there, if you have signed a Standard Player Agreement and the adults are trying to tell you and your Family that you can't go play elsewhere because of a non-compete clause and a line that says that they can seek injunctive relief and you'd rather this not be the case, feel free to PM me... I have some great litigators I can refer you to. Maybe the province of Ontario has some crazy enforceable and anti-labor favorable non-compete clauses, which would be surprising given their political bent, especially for players that everyone considers amateurs and exempt from labor laws!
Odds are that those adults are idiots that don't know what they're talking about. Being "hockey" does not make them magically exempt from basic contract enforceability provisions. They'll back down very quickly like they did on the Yakupov thing.
And to any in-demand 16 year olds weighing CHL/NCAA and if (big if) the NCAA comes out and say "yes CHL players can play in the NCAA" (let's let that happen and not just rely on some CHL insiders saying "yeah it totally may definitely possibly happen"), take that Standard Player Agreement and say "I want an out clause that I can exercise at age 18 or age 19 to go to NCAA if I want... or else I'll just go play in the BCHL or USHL if you're gonna play games with me and try to block when I'm allowed to go pursue my education"... that's the free market at work to put that nonsense away.
Kids I would not accept any advice, recommendation or referral from the above listed user even if he is a real lawyer (and that is an open question)
Standard contracts holding players to leagues are ubiquitous in the hockey world, despite what the above poster would have you believe. The NTDP, as an example, has a very prohibitive fee if a player signs with the program but then opts out before his services to the program are competed. The above poster may try and advise you that you as both a minor and amateur can simply ignore the signed contract and no judge would hold you accountable. The problem, however, lies with the various agreements between federations and hockey governing bodies that will indeed hold you responsible in the fulfilment of your obligations.
The NTDP is not the only body that binds players to terms of service. The USPHL (unsanctioned league similar to the BCHL) contract expressly states that a player who signs a contract with the league shall only exclusively play for the club he has signed with.
Here is a breakdown of the contract by two (actual) lawyers.. Best of the Daily Dish: Breaking Down the USPHL NCDC Player Agreement – JuniorHockey.com
Notice that neither lawyer states that the player can simply ignore the signed contract and go on to play for another sanctioned U.S. league. Notice that both agree that such a contract is binding and will prevent or at the very least cause financial hardship if a player violates the contract by leaving the team.
The CHL has very similar contract language that binds players to the league. So before signing any contracts, take the advice of real lawyers and buyer beware.
Now the above poster may say who are these anonymous legal experts....it's all lies and trust me because honest I'm really really a somebody... but kids.... don't trust him because through all his responses and replies he has shown himself to really be a nobody and he would certainly not be able to provide any help or aid in walking away from signed contracts.
We can come back to this thread in a year when the exact details of CHL eligibility become public. I'm pretty confident that when they do, the CHL will still maintain exclusive rights to its players.
