Value of: Chiarot to Calgary for Pelletier

[Baksfamous112]

This is just bizarre. Manson got a big return because he has second-pairing upside. On a legitimate team, Chiarot shouldn’t be more than an “OK” five who plays solid pk.

Giving up a first tier prospect… plus more???? For him is just ridiculous in my opinion. I acknowledge there are other reads of his game that could definitely be more astute than mine but… I hate, hate, hate this -if remotely true- from a Calgary respective unless they’re really souring on Pelletier (why? I couldn’t give you a guess).

Yes he was very solid in the postseason… I remember. But as a 5v5 player over the past two seasons… he’s among the dregs of blueliners with 1000 or more even strength minutes in: Preventing shots and shot attempts agiainst, net rate of shot attempts, high danger chances against, high danger net chances, net goals and expected goals rate.

If my personal and others analytical reads of Chiarot are correct, he’s not even been as good as thought on the kill: Over the past two seasons he’s been bad as a shot, shot attempt, xGA/min and high danger chance allowing Dman… only performing moderately solidly (at least relative to the rest) at preventing goals and high danger goals at 4-on-5.

I thought Manson cost too much. If Chiarot gets a top-echelon forward plus or a first rounder plus, we’d be through the bloody looking glass.

I stopped reading there. If you think Manson is a top 4 and Chiarot isn’t you either overvalue Manson or doesn’t know who Chiarot is.

 

[Ainsy01]

Chiarot scratched for tonights game. Wonder where he goes

 

[crazyfisherman]

Except, come playoff time, guys like Chiarot are the ones who win you games by abusing the other players.
Small Dman like Russell are a dime a dozen.

Chiarot's value is a lot higher then the likes of guys like Russell

Hes not a top pairing D, he helps but dont make it sound like hes someone thats gonna be the difference maker in a run, he never was until that lightning in a bottle season.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

I can't see the Flames being all that willing to give up Pelletier for a rental. More likely Valimaki.

 

[Mersss]

That is why he doesn't really make sense for the Flames though. They don't need Zadorov, Gudbrandson, and Chiarot



Yup, that is how you know it is a dumb article

CHiarot is a lot better than those 2 guys tho

 

[bleuetbio]

Just curiosity, is it possible that Flames fans make their top prospect list?

 

[Mersss]

I can't see the Flames being all that willing to give up Pelletier for a rental. More likely Valimaki.

Valimaki is a bust at this point. 24yo, still playing in the AHL? he isn't worth what Flames fans thin he is

 

[kanucks25]

Why is this a 7 page thread lol, never gonna happen.

If the Habs asked for Pelletier, that conversation likely ended a few seconds after it started.

 

[Bond]

CHiarot is a lot better than those 2 guys tho

I think he is about the same

 

[Larry Hanson]

Just because the Flames are said to be inquiring on a player doesn't really mean anything. Treliving is well known to call every team about everything all the time. Seems like half the time a player is rumoured to be on the market the Flames are reported to be in on it. If the price for Chiarot is Pelletier (or even a 1st) then I can't see the fit honestly.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Valimaki is a bust at this point. 24yo, still playing in the AHL? he isn't worth what Flames fans thin he is

Just like Oliver Kylington, correct?

 

[TooMuchMan]

I stopped reading there. If you think Manson is a top 4 and Chiarot isn’t you either overvalue Manson or doesn’t know who Chiarot is.

Right. You have your opinions on this which may or may not be more valid than mine. I reiterate, I don't think Manson is top-4 now. I think he can be in the right situation (and since he's been there in the not-too-distant past) but Chiarot is at his very best a low-end #4 on a contender... at best. GMs love him because they see him as a perfect 'playoff' addition. While I can't say I agree, that's going to be what drives his price up significantly. In a vacuum, with people actually assessing based on a player's statistical performance (which in most cases includes valuations including quality of comp/zonestart/TOI/linemates/etc.)... that's he's a bottom-pairing player.

I really disliked the Manson deal for COL. The prospects/picks getting thrown around in 'supposed' offers Chiarot are just mind-numbingly stupid.

 

[JustAHabFan]

Right. You have your opinions on this which may or may not be more valid than mine. I reiterate, I don't think Manson is top-4 now. I think he can be in the right situation (and since he's been there in the not-too-distant past) but Chiarot is at his very best a low-end #4 on a contender... at best. GMs love him because they see him as a perfect 'playoff' addition. While I can't say I agree, that's going to be what drives his price up significantly. In a vacuum, with people actually assessing based on a player's statistical performance (which in most cases includes valuations including quality of comp/zonestart/TOI/linemates/etc.)... that's he's a bottom-pairing player.

I really disliked the Manson deal for COL. The prospects/picks getting thrown around in 'supposed' offers Chiarot are just mind-numbingly stupid.

Have you seen Chiarot's stats since we get the new coach MSL?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Come on now, everyone knows Pelletier was and is still a good notch below Caufield. Caufield was always seen as a top 5 - 10 prospect in the league and a legit first liner. Pelletier was always seen in the Poehling category (top 50 prospect who will/should become a good middle of the line-up player). Both were PPG or close to PPG in their D+3 season AHL stats.

In what world is 13 points in 36 games close to a PPG? That's how many points Poehling had in his D+3 rookie AHL year.

 

[beakerboy]

Just curiosity, is it possible that Flames fans make their top prospect list?

Prospect Info: - Prospect Ranking 2021 #7

#1 Matt Coronato 37.5% #2 Jakob Pelletier 53.3% #3 Dustin Wolf 57.1% #4 Connor Zary 91.4% #5 Jeremie Poirier 47.5% #6 Adam Ruzicka 44.0% Added Jack Beck

hfboards.mandatory.com

This was the poll from a couple of months ago. I don't recall if it got any further than that.

 

[TooMuchMan]

Have you seen Chiarot's stats since we get the new coach MSL?

Not particularly. I've heard, from friends in MTL, that he's improved. (I don't have info besides one or two cursory viewings which wouldn't tell me much).. but this is still a very small sample size, he's unlikely to get deployed in a new system the same as in MSL's system, and I still feel that even were he to be a mid-level #4 type shutdown guy (which would be optimistic imo) - he's still not worth as much as some are suggesting (again, my opinion, but I believe it based in decent analysis) a deal like a 1st+ or Pelletier+. If some GM thinks he's a better defensive guy than I do, by a significant factor... I think he could be worth a 2nd and an 'ok' prospect. But any more than that and I really, really feel like it's a significant overpay.

 

[HighLifeMan]

7 pages..

Lebrun literally stated Calgary was unwilling to move Pelletier - and management even told his agent as much. If he wasn't involved in a package for both Toffoli and Chiarot he certainly wouldn't be moved for Chiarot alone. Come on. Also, Dustin Wolf being viewed as a "throw in" is laughable. This is the top goaltender in the AHL as a 20 year old rookie who has the pedigree of being arguably the greatest WHL goaltender of all time.

 

[ShotDownInFlames]

So if Chariot is taking one of Gudrbanson or Zadorovs place, is it really worth the price for that small of an upgrade while also possibly disrupting the team chemistry. don’t think it’s worth it. I see treliving doing something for depth on d Like he did with forbort and Fantenberg

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I feel like this only a rumour because Pelletier has a French last name.

Just the media pandering to a large Canadian market

 

[xMatMcC]

Not a single chance in hell he returns Pel. Move on. /Thread

 

[Mersss]

Just like Oliver Kylington, correct?

What has Kylington done exactly? Just to be sure we're talking about the same 2nd pairing d-man I'm thinking of.

 

[Baksfamous112]

In what world is 13 points in 36 games close to a PPG? That's how many points Poehling had in his D+3 rookie AHL year.

He had 25 in 28

 

[madmike77]

What has Kylington done exactly? Just to be sure we're talking about the same 2nd pairing d-man I'm thinking of.

25 points and a +26 while playing significant minutes. He’s better than Chiarot.

The Flames aren’t giving up a ton for Chiarot just to play him on the 3rd pairing.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

He had 25 in 28

That was in his D+4 Sophomore season. Try again

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Valimaki is a bust at this point. 24yo, still playing in the AHL? he isn't worth what Flames fans thin he is

A lot of bad takes here

First: Valimaki is 23, not 24.
Second: he's only playing in the AHL because the Flames NHL d-core is top 5 in the entire league this year as well as being waiver exempt due to the year he missed with injury. He has already played at the NHL level though and was expected to play 2nd pair this year until Kylington bulked up and broke out.
Third: he still has very high potential, his development got pushed back by 2 early career (unrelated) major injuries that caused him to miss over 1.5 seasons of play, not to mention Covid shutdowns.