Value of: Chiarot to Calgary for Pelletier

[AndyRay]

So in other words you decided to base his potential on where he was drafted 3 years ago and not on the growth he has shown as a player. 2 years ago kaprizov was widely considered the best prospect not playing in the NHL but he was drafted in the 5th round, by your logic his potential should have been viewed as a 5th round pick

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm not sure Calgary fan would have been happy, if Calgary had traded Tkatchuk 1 on 1 for Kaprizov in 2018. Kravtsov was a top ten pick and if I have to choose between Kravtsov and Pelletier, I choose Pelletier. What's you saying is that you don't trade Pelletier vs Caufield 1 on 1. What's I'm saying is Caufield worth more than Pelletier because Pelletier never play NHL there's a chance that he is not perfom in the NHL like he do in the AHL. There's a lot of guy who are good in the AHL and they can't make the step. Caufield is playing in the NHL and he is doing well. Hughes, Seider, Zegras and Boldy are the only players with a better p/gp of the 2019 Draft. Pelletier have a good progression, he is making PPG in the AHL. Good news for the Flames fans and good for him, but PPG in the AHL dosent guarantee top 6 in the NHL.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Blue Chip? If he was blue chip, he would be on your roster this season. He's a grade A on a very good development track. I support you protecting him but hold off from over pumping his value with the Blue Chip narrative. Makar was a Blue Chip.

That's not how that works, Holtz and Rossi are widely considered "blue chip" prospects but aren't playing in the NHL. He is a top 50 prospect in the league, if your definition of "blue chip" is top 10 only that's fine, not everyone has the same definition. I'm not saying he is or isn't a "bluechip prospect" either as it's simply just a phrase at the end of the day.

 

[HabsAddict]

Weber is a LTIR contract that we may or may not be able to move to cap floor team. We will see.

Price is coming back. He's got gas left but the idea of trading him comes after he plays full time next year.

Kadri is not going to sign with the Habs. I'll make a $100 bet with you on that.

Chiarot may or may not sign with us. I don't think we will try to sign him. Where are we getting this magical cap space? There are other teams trying to unload contracts as well right? If you try to move either of Gallagher or Petry, you will have to take a contract back. Think Atkinson/Voraceck trade.

Clean up and build up is going to happen but it's not happening in one off season.

We don't have much of a proven defense and signing Chiarot carries a risk. His style of play is very physical and while he's robust, those checks add up. I like Chiarots game a lot and I wish he was still with us for a few more years until Guhle and Xhekaj are ready to be pain givers. Chiarot will be looking at a retirement contract that spans into 5-6 years. Unless he takes a home discount or flops in the playoffs and his value tanks, he's unlikely to be affordable.

Our future defense is not exactly glowing....and needs adds until the prospects come in...IF they prove to be NHL caliber.

As for Kadri, a huge Habs fan but his value has skyrocketed. At this point, it will be a matter of where Kadri wants to play because he is certainly going to cost too much for us to sign based on his current production. Plus he's at the retirement stage of his next contract so that makes it even more of a "get as much as you can" contract stage. My value of his is a generous 5x4 per but he's going to get more. As for a bet, sure, I have rubles and certainly wont hesitate to bet them....

BTW....I'm ALWAYS leery about someone having an outlier year late in their careers. Particularly someone who is 31. Hockey hurts and these guys can "help" that with a lot of pharmaceutical help. Which is not sustainable and very often, we see the results of it post contract. Kadri is NOT a 6 million player and anyone who signs him for anything close to that will fall into the uber fail pail......

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's not how that works, Holtz and Rossi are widely considered "blue chip" prospects but aren't playing in the NHL. He is a top 50 prospect in the league, if your definition of "blue chip" is top 10 only that's fine, not everyone has the same definition. I'm not saying he is or isn't a "bluechip prospect" either as it's simply just a phrase at the end of the day.

That's not what I consider a Blue Chip. Sorry. Blue Chip Prospects don't play AHL games... that's for Grade A's and B's. Grade A's might play a half a AHL season or full one. Grade B's might play a few AHL seasons. Those are my standards anyways.

I think the 1st and prospect for Chiarot is a reach. Not happening
But
I also think Flames fans saying Pelletier is a Blue chip is also a reach.

I support the Flames in wanting to keep Pelletier. I think I would have the same opinion if the situation was reversed. However, he's a Grade A on a very good development track. That's as far as I hype it

 

[HabsAddict]

That's not how that works, Holtz and Rossi are widely considered "blue chip" prospects but aren't playing in the NHL. He is a top 50 prospect in the league, if your definition of "blue chip" is top 10 only that's fine, not everyone has the same definition. I'm not saying he is or isn't a "bluechip prospect" either as it's simply just a phrase at the end of the day.

Blue chip is in the eyes of the beholder and tens times more in fans eyes.

Guhle is a blue chip prospect. I had him for top 2 but now he's more of a "sure fire" top 4...in my eyes. So was Juulsen and a few others who flopped into coffee visits in the NHL. Same thing can happen to Guhle.

So it goes with Pelletier. Until he's actually proving what he is in the NHL, he's a prospect that may be be a top 6...or more likely a NHL player or...just get in for a cup of coffee.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

That's not what I consider a Blue Chip. Sorry. Blue Chip Prospects don't play AHL games... that's for Grade A's and B's. Grade A's might play a half a AHL season or full one. Grade B's might play a few AHL seasons. Those are my standards anyways.

I think the 1st and prospect for Chiarot is a reach. Not happening
But
I also think Flames fans saying Pelletier is a Blue chip is also a reach.

I support the Flames in wanting to keep Pelletier. I think I would have the same opinion if the situation was reversed. However, he's a Grade A on a very good development track. That's as far as I hype it

Again I personally don't care for the term, it's a relatively vague term so it's by self definition. However I do consider prospect rankings to be legitimate, and Pelletier is definitely in the top 50 league-wide

 

[HabsAddict]

That's not what I consider a Blue Chip. Sorry. Blue Chip Prospects don't play AHL games... that's for Grade A's and B's. Grade A's might play a half a AHL season or full one. Grade B's might play a few AHL seasons. Those are my standards anyways.

Caufield was blue chip. He almost had me turning blue waiting to break out this season but he's there now and proved his blue chip credentials.

Guhle is blue chip in my eyes but more of a Grade AA.

So I agree with the grading system..but as always, it's subject to opinion and the colour of ones glasses.

Here is a site that I does not use my coloured glasses...not exactly screaming top 6.

Jakob Pelletier

May 2023- Pelletier was an absolute force during the playoffs for the Wranglers. He had an outstanding 18 shots in the five games against the Coachella Valley Firebirds. One thing you can see still about Pelletier’s game is his lack of defensive awareness. He often loses track of his man lots of...

dobberprospects.com

And on Guhle....far less upside then my Dollar Store glasses put on him.

Kaiden Guhle

December 2022 – Guhle has exceeded all expectations that could have ever been set for him. After being traded from Prince Albert in the WHL to Edmonton, Guhle’s game took massive strides. Drafted in 2020 as a unilaterally defensive defenseman, his 25-game stint in Edmonton allowed him to tap in...

dobberprospects.com

DO NOT LOOK AT THE WRITE-UP. LOOK AT THEIR RATING OF UPSIDE AND MAKING IT TO THE NHL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Caufield was blue chip. He almost had me turning blue waiting to break out this season but he's there now and proved his blue chip credentials.

Guhle is blue chip in my eyes but more of a Grade AA.

So I agree with the grading system..but as always, it's subject to opinion and the colour of ones glasses.

Here is a site that I does not use my coloured glasses...not exactly screaming top 6.

Jakob Pelletier

May 2023- Pelletier was an absolute force during the playoffs for the Wranglers. He had an outstanding 18 shots in the five games against the Coachella Valley Firebirds. One thing you can see still about Pelletier’s game is his lack of defensive awareness. He often loses track of his man lots of...

dobberprospects.com

And on Guhle....far less upside then my Dollar Store glasses put on him.

Kaiden Guhle

December 2022 – Guhle has exceeded all expectations that could have ever been set for him. After being traded from Prince Albert in the WHL to Edmonton, Guhle’s game took massive strides. Drafted in 2020 as a unilaterally defensive defenseman, his 25-game stint in Edmonton allowed him to tap in...

dobberprospects.com

DO NOT LOOK AT THE WRITE-UP. LOOK AT THEIR RATING OF UPSIDE AND MAKING IT TO THE NHL.

Caufield had a very impressive resume prior to the NHL but I would not have him as a Blue Chip either. He's showed his potential in the playoffs yes and now again with MSL as our coach yes. However, just like someone else said about Pelletier, the size factor can't be ignored (pre NHL). They need to be very very good with very good skating in order to face those big NHL players who also skate well.

So for me, both Caufield and Pelletier would have been Grade A's (pre NHL). Very close at the same age points and before they played NHL games. It's too easy to label Caufield as a Blue chip after we seen playoffs and recent games with MSL. I would consider that a reach before they both have played NHL games.

Blue Chip to me is Makar. My Blue Chip standards are very high. The exceptional ones that have a good shot at becoming a star in the NHL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Again I personally don't care for the term, it's a relatively vague term so it's by self definition. However I do consider prospect rankings to be legitimate, and Pelletier is definitely in the top 50 league-wide

No doubt about it. Pelletier is a Grade A on a very good development track. I just personally have very high standards if I label a prospect "Blue Chip". That's exceptional status to me where they can be a star in the NHL (Makar types).

 

[HabsAddict]

Caufield had a very impressive resume prior to the NHL but I would not have him as a Blue Chip either. He's showed his potential in the playoffs yes and now again with MSL as our coach yes. However, just like someone else said about Pelletier, the size factor can't be ignored (pre NHL). They need to be very very good with very good skating in order to face those big NHL players who also skate well.

So for me, both Caufield and Pelletier would have been Grade A's (pre NHL). Very close at the same age points and before they played NHL games. It's too easy to label Caufield as a Blue chip after we seen playoffs and recent games with MSL. I would consider that a reach before they both have played NHL games.

Blue Chip to me is Makar. My Blue Chip standards are very high. The exceptional ones that have a good shot at becoming a star in the NHL.

Your Blue Chip prospect is Franchise prospect. Makar is a franchise level player.

 

[crazyfisherman]

Blue Chip? If he was blue chip, he would be on your roster this season. He's a grade A on a very good development track. I support you protecting him but hold off from over pumping his value with the Blue Chip narrative. Makar was a Blue Chip.

So only franchise level prospects are blue vhip for you? If you want to go with theres only 10 bluechip prospect in the entire league then go for it, thats not my definition, Pelletier is prob around a top 30 prospect rn.

 

[BKarchitect]

Double

 

[TBF1972]

Makes sense. On HF, prospects are worth exponentially more than established, proven players, even if the they’re the same age.

in what world is caufield an established proven player. he is eligible for the calder.

 

[BKarchitect]

I think you guys have stumbled upon a brilliant new podcast idea:

“Habs Fans Grading your Prospects”

Each show features a bunch of Habs fan sitting around handing out weirdly arbitrary and meaningless “grades” to your favorite team’s best prospects.

Each show will include special segments such as:

“What depth players you can and can’t acquire from Montreal for your prospects”

and of course, the always popular

“Why Habs prospect ‘X’ grades out as an A-student”

Let’s make this happen.

 

[HabsAddict]

I think you guys have stumbled upon a brilliant new podcast idea:

“Habs Fans Grading your Prospects”

Each show features a bunch of Habs fan sitting around handing out weirdly arbitrary and meaningless “grades” to your favorite team’s best prospects.

Each show will include special segments such as:

“What depth players you can and can’t acquire from Montreal for your prospects”

and of course, the always popular

“Why Habs prospect ‘X’ grades out as an A-student”

Let’s make this happen.

I'm been around for a long time and I can assure you that every fan of every team does exactly the same thing. From the brasseries of Montreal in the 70's to this modern thingy called "intranets", it's simply a built in genetic defect.

 

[BKarchitect]

I'm been around for a long time and I can assure you that every fan of every team does exactly the same thing. From the brasseries of Montreal in the 70's to this modern thingy called "intranets", it's simply a built in genetic defect.

For sure that’s why there will be a corresponding show called:

“Why Ben Chiarot is the worst defenseman in history until my team acquires him”

aka

“Nerd stats matter…when I want them to”

 

[Garbageyuk]

in what world is caufield an established proven player. he is eligible for the calder.

In the world where he is playing in the NHL, producing in the NHL, and produced as a key contributor in a run to the Stanley Cup Finals, AKA reality. What world are you living in?

 

[Garbageyuk]

I think you guys have stumbled upon a brilliant new podcast idea:

“Habs Fans Grading your Prospects”

Each show features a bunch of Habs fan sitting around handing out weirdly arbitrary and meaningless “grades” to your favorite team’s best prospects.

Each show will include special segments such as:

“What depth players you can and can’t acquire from Montreal for your prospects”

and of course, the always popular

“Why Habs prospect ‘X’ grades out as an A-student”

Let’s make this happen.

“Depth player”. If you don’t want your team to acquire Chiarot and don’t think he’s worth Pelletier, that’s fine, but stop with the exaggerations. Chiarot is a legitimate top-4 defenseman. You lose all credibility pretending otherwise.

 

[TBF1972]

In the world where he is playing in the NHL, producing in the NHL, and produced as a key contributor in a run to the Stanley Cup Finals, AKA reality. What world are you living in?

in a world, where habs fans declare, that they wouldn't trade caufield for jack hughes and caufield would go #1 in a redraft.

hyper, hyper, hyper

the canadiens are a currently the absolute worst team in the nhl. even worse than the coyotes, who are designed to lose. but somehow each of their players is on the rise, buzzing or the addition, who would make a contender a stanley cup champion.

at the start of the season caufield was struggling and send down to the ahl (after he estabished him as a playoff god ). currently he is playing well and producing. he is neither a busted prospect destinied for an ahl career nor is he a proven 100 pt scorer, because he paces something like this in a very small sample size. caufield is a rookie, who has potential and still a lot to learn. some love his goal scoring ability, some see the play making potential and some see his diminutive stature, which can hold him back in phyiscal battles.

you seem like the typical fan, who evaluates players by the team logo on their shirts.

 

[Bounces R Way]

“Depth player”. If you don’t want your team to acquire Chiarot and don’t think he’s worth Pelletier, that’s fine, but stop with the exaggerations. Chiarot is a legitimate top-4 defenseman. You lose all credibility pretending otherwise.

Not for the Flames he isn't.

I like Chiarot and think he would be a good add for a playoff team with a hole that needs filling or just looking to simply give their defense a boost. The Flames simply just don't have that need, all the defenseman are excelling in their roles. It's not like their depth beyond the starters is in any kind of crucial need either. Valimaki, Stone, and Mackey all have NHL experience. Makes absolutely no sense for them to give up one of their best prospects for a player that isn't needed.

 

[Garbageyuk]

in a world, where habs fans declare, that they wouldn't trade caufield for jack hughes and caufield would go #1 in a redraft.

hyper, hyper, hyper

the canadiens are a currently the absolute worst team in the nhl. even worse than the coyotes, who are designed to lose. but somehow each of their players is on the rise, buzzing or the addition, who would make a contender a stanley cup champion.

at the start of the season caufield was struggling and send down to the ahl (after he estabished him as a playoff god ). currently he is playing well and producing. he is neither a busted prospect destinied for an ahl career nor is he a proven 100 pt scorer, because he paces something like this in a very small sample size. caufield is a rookie, who has potential and still a lot to learn. some love his goal scoring ability, some see the play making potential and some see his diminutive stature, which can hold him back in phyiscal battles.

you seem like the typical fan, who evaluates players by the team logo on their shirts.

LOL. Me saying he’s an NHL player when he is literally playing in the NHL right now caused you to write all that drivel. That’s a you problem.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Not for the Flames he isn't.

I like Chiarot and think he would be a good add for a playoff team with a hole that needs filling or just looking to simply give their defense a boost. The Flames simply just don't have that need, all the defenseman are excelling in their roles. It's not like their depth beyond the starters is in any kind of crucial need either. Valimaki, Stone, and Mackey all have NHL experience. Makes absolutely no sense for them to give up one of their best prospects for a player that isn't needed.

Fair enough, but calling him a depth defenseman is ridiculous. He’s a legit top-4 D, and proved that last season in the playoffs if nothing else. For the record, I wouldn’t want to give Pelletier for him if I was a Flames fan either, but that doesn’t change the fact that Chiarot is a top-4, and many teams could use him come playoff time.

 

[Rob Sense]

Darn...Chiarot was not worth a 1st plus....all haters were right... Good luck in POs