Value of: Chiarot to Calgary for Pelletier

[Goldenhands]

Pelletier has well exceeded his draft pedigree lmao

Indeed, he projects as a 50 pts 2nd line winger with good 2-way play and impeccable work ethic and Im pretty confident a kid like Kulich will become that.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Pelletier is dominating the AHL in his 20 year-old season after dominating that Q and having a great WJC as a 19 year-old after being a first round pick.

He’s worth a lot more than a run of the mill late first round pick. A lot more.

The Habs can ask about him and I’m sure they have. So there’s your “report”. Anything outside of that is pure conjecture including these sneaky little lines Habs fans use to keep their hopes up for this kind of return like “well, the Flames may not be ready yet to do this but maybe they will eventually”. It’s far more likely the Flames said “yeah, hard pass and Pelletier isn’t available, thanks for asking”.

I mean, I’m sure the Habs asked about Pelletier with Toffoli. You could even make a headline like “Habs interested in Pelletier, willing to part with Byron” and claim it’s not “untrue” yet we all know how intellectually dishonest it is. There’s no evidence at all that the Flames are willing to part with one of their crown jewel prospects for a rental defenseman like Chiarot.

Lol pipe down. He’s having a good season, but he isn’t dominating by any stretch. He isn’t even leading his own team in scoring.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Wouldn't trade Pelletier for Caufield 1 for 1 so

Makes sense. On HF, prospects are worth exponentially more than established, proven players, even if the they’re the same age.

 

[pth2]

Makes sense. On HF, prospects are worth exponentially more than established, proven players, even if the they’re the same age.

I call it prospectitis: the feeling that every single prospect is 100% guaranteed to reach his full potential in short order, and their trade value has to be based on this assumption.

 

[pth2]

The Habs can ask about him and I’m sure they have. So there’s your “report”. Anything outside of that is pure conjecture including these sneaky little lines Habs fans use to keep their hopes up for this kind of return like “well, the Flames may not be ready yet to do this but maybe they will eventually”. It’s far more likely the Flames said “yeah, hard pass and Pelletier isn’t available, thanks for asking”.

I mean, I’m sure the Habs asked about Pelletier with Toffoli. You could even make a headline like “Habs interested in Pelletier, willing to part with Byron” and claim it’s not “untrue” yet we all know how intellectually dishonest it is. There’s no evidence at all that the Flames are willing to part with one of their crown jewel prospects for a rental defenseman like Chiarot.

And it's more than possible that the Habs had a choice of Pelletier and Heineman and chose the latter, in the Toffoli trade. Regardless of what Flames scouts and reporters think of Heineman and Pelletier, Habs management might well have a different opinion on the matter.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Makes sense. On HF, prospects are worth exponentially more than established, proven players, even if the they’re the same age.

I mean 3 weeks ago how "proven" of a player was Caufield. He's going to fall back to norm soon, coaching high's always have this effect.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I mean 3 weeks ago how "proven" of a player was Caufield. He's going to fall back to norm soon, coaching high's always have this effect.

He’d already shown that he can produce and be a key contributor in a deep playoff run, and now he’s showing he can produce at a 100+ point pace in the NHL for a significant stretch, even if he does “fall back toward the norm” eventually. He’s a proven NHL calibre player, unlike the guy who has yet to play a single game in the NHL. Flames fans would be over the moon if Pelletier came in and produced like Caufield is right now.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

He’d already shown that he can produce and be a key contributor in a deep playoff run, and now he’s showing he can produce at a 100+ point pace in the NHL for a significant stretch, even if he does “fall back toward the norm” eventually. He’s a proven NHL calibre player, unlike the guy who has yet to play a single game in the NHL. Flames fans would be over the moon if Pelletier came in and produced like Caufield is right now.

Significant stretch? That's a reach. Like how Sam Bennett was going to get 110 points this year after his first 20 games in Florida? Or how Bryan Rush is a 121 point player after his first 20 games this season? Caufield is on a hot streak, simple as that, he is shooting at a pretty unsustainable 18.6% right now too. Just because Calgary doesn't need to call up Pelletier should not undermine how dominant he is in as an AHL rookie this year and how high is potential is. Caufield is probably a ~40 35-50 point player right now, that doesn't seem like an unrealistic expectation for Pelletier next year at all

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Things that won't happen for trillion dollars, Alex.

 

[Tyrolean]

Don't gift Calgary another good player (like Toffoli) _ says Oiler fan.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Imagine if by some miracle Habs landed Pelletier for Chiarot there would be no end of posts saying we told you Chiarot wouldn’t fetch a 1st and that Pelletier is a bust

 

[AndyRay]

Significant stretch? That's a reach. Like how Sam Bennett was going to get 110 points this year after his first 20 games in Florida? Or how Bryan Rush is a 121 point player after his first 20 games this season? Caufield is on a hot streak, simple as that, he is shooting at a pretty unsustainable 18.6% right now too. Just because Calgary doesn't need to call up Pelletier should not undermine how dominant he is in as an AHL rookie this year and how high is potential is. Caufield is probably a ~40 35-50 point player right now, that doesn't seem like an unrealistic expectation for Pelletier next year at all.

I think we're all agree, Chiarot alone is not worth Pelletier. You don't do the trade Pelletier vs Caufield 1on1. That's a good news for the Habs because we don't do the trade neither. First reason, Caufield making 0.6P/GP at his first season while Pelletier have not played a game yet in the NHL. If we look the scouting report, the stats in the QMJHL and the size of the player, the realistic expectation for Pelletier is Anthony Beauvillier. If he become more than Beauvillier it will be a bonus for Calgary. Are the habs will do Beauvillier for Caufield? hell no. So theres no reason to do it for a guy who never play a game in the NHL. Pelletier gonna be a good player but for now Caufield is better and the offensive potential of Caufield are way higher than Pelletier.

Anthony Beauvillier: Height 5'11", Weight 181 lbs, Draft 28e overall

LEAGUE	GP	G	G	TP
QMJHL	64	9	24	33
WHC-17	6	2	2	4
QMJHL	67	42	52	94
WJC-18	6	3	0	3
QMJHL	47	40	39	79
WJC-20	5	1	0	1

Beauvillier played WJC-20 at 18 years old and not played at 19 years old because he was playing in the NHL. Pelletier didn't make the team at 18 years old.

Jakob Pelletier, Height: 5'10" Weight: 181 lbs, Draft 26e overall

LEAGUE	GP	G	A	TP
QMJHL	60	23	38	61
WHC-17	6	4	0	4
QMJHL	65	39	50	89
WJC-18	7	0	2	2
QMJHL	57	32	50	82
QMJHL	28	13	30	43
WJC-20	7	3	4	7

 

[Scintillating10]

I doubt Montreal trades Chiarot to Calgary. Habs own their first pick. Why strengthen them?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I think we're all agree, Chiarot alone is not worth Pelletier. You don't do the trade Pelletier vs Caufield 1on1. That's a good news for the Habs because we don't do the trade neither. First reason, Caufield making 0.6P/GP at his first season Pelletier have not played a game yet in the NHL. If we look the scouting report, the stats in the QMJHL and the size of the player, the realistic expectation for Pelletier is Anthony Beauvillier. If he become more than Beauvillier it will be a bonus for Calgary. Are the habs will do Beauvillier for Caufield? hell no. So theres no reason to do it for a guy who never play a game in the NHL. Pelletier gonna be a good player but for now Caufield is better and the offensive potential of Caufield are way higher than Pelletier.

Anthony Beauvillier: Height 5'11", Weight 181 lbs, Draft 28e overall

LEAGUE	GP	G	G	TP
QMJHL	64	9	24	33
WHC-17	6	2	2	4
QMJHL	67	42	52	94
WJC-18	6	3	0	3
QMJHL	47	40	39	79
WJC-20	5	1	0	1

Beauvillier played WJC-20 at 18 years old and not played at 19 years old because he was playing in the NHL. Pelletier didn't make the team at 18 years old.

Jakob Pelletier, Height: 5'10" Weight: 181 lbs, Draft 26e overall

LEAGUE	GP	G	A	TP
QMJHL	60	23	38	61
WHC-17	6	4	0	4
QMJHL	65	39	50	89
WJC-18	7	0	2	2
QMJHL	57	32	50	82
QMJHL	28	13	30	43
WJC-20	7	3	4	7

Ok lets start out by getting some facts straight, Pelletier was invited to the WJC team Canada tryouts at 18 but was concussed. It is not as simple as "Pelletier didn't make the team at 18 years old."

Beauvillier is a really specific and singular example that only looks at his Q stats. Which is where your comparison falters, Beau went directly to the NHL in his D+2 year whereas Pelletier was given both extra development time in the Q, and now in the AHL. Why do you not choose someone who went and put up PPG numbers in the AHL as a rookie as well?

 

[Garbageyuk]

Significant stretch? That's a reach. Like how Sam Bennett was going to get 110 points this year after his first 20 games in Florida? Or how Bryan Rush is a 121 point player after his first 20 games this season? Caufield is on a hot streak, simple as that, he is shooting at a pretty unsustainable 18.6% right now too. Just because Calgary doesn't need to call up Pelletier should not undermine how dominant he is in as an AHL rookie this year and how high is potential is. Caufield is probably a ~40 35-50 point player right now, that doesn't seem like an unrealistic expectation for Pelletier next year at all

Yeah cool. As of right now, Caufield is an NHL player, and Pelletier is not. That was my point. And Pelletier is hardly dominating lol. Caufield is playing better in the NHL right now than Pelletier is in the AHL. If anyone in this discussion is dominating right now, it’s Cole Caufield - in the NHL no less.

 

[UED]

Well we're not gonna get Pelletier for Chiarot, that's for sure. I don't know why we'd trade Chiarot for a prospect. Nobody's gonna trade a prospect who is looking good for a pending UFA depth dman, only busts would be available. We're better off trading for a pick, which is neither looking good nor bad yet.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I doubt Montreal trades Chiarot to Calgary. Habs own their first pick. Why strengthen them?

Because the assets they get back for Chiarot will outweight the difference in how much it will affect the draft pick.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Lol @ people saying Pelletier will be better then Caufield

 

[pth2]

I doubt Montreal trades Chiarot to Calgary. Habs own their first pick. Why strengthen them?

That's actually a good point, if Chiarot makes Calgary go deeper, that 1st starts sinking quickly to the end of the round.

 

[Habs Halifax]

First thing I will say is I'm not sure who the Flames have to send back for cap reasons if they trade for Chiarot. They have cap issues and not even sure they can fit in Chiarot at 50%. Might require a 3rd team to retain another 50% (like Savard with the Wings last year). Flames fans can eliborate on that area in terms of their cap space.

What about the Habs sending back a B+ prospect in the Chiarot/Pelletier trade idea?

* Chiarot (50% retention... possible 3rd team retaining 50%).
* Kidney (Grade B+ putting up very good numbers in his age 18 season). True center type with high IQ.
for
* Pelletier
* Possible cap dump but not sure who that would be.
* Maybe a future pick cause not sure of the gap between Pelletier and Kidney makes up for what Chiarot is worth.

 

[McJedi]

The 1st and prospect was always a reach but that was a spin from the media. Chiarot's value to me was two 2nd rounders and over the last few weeks, I added the B/B+ prospect (as a high starting price). This is one piece away from what Manson got.

I did feel that both Chiarot and Manson were the two targets by many teams. Lower cap hit and physical guys you can lean on heavy for D zone starts and usage. I think Chiarot gets a little more to be honest cause he's the better skater, scores a bit more goals, and has played a bit more min's. However, it should be close

I’d agree they fetch a similar return. This kid is Calgarys best prospect. Habs don’t really have a prospect at his level. Guhle would be the closest and this kid ranks above Guhle.

Would you trade Guhle for a rental? Calgary won’t either.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

I’d agree they fetch a similar return. This kid is Calgarys best prospect. Habs don’t really have a prospect at his level. Guhle would be the closest and this kid ranks abound Guhle. Would you trade Guhle for a rental? Calgary won’t either.

we woudlnt we all overrate prospects/picks on this site but GMs do it every year

 

[Nanuuk]

A joke of an article and a lot of day dreaming going on.

Flames do not need a D-man of chariot's stature and they aren't going to give up a Pelletier or Wolf for a rental.

If Treliving did that he'd undo the good work the organization has done the last few years.

 

[Mersss]

Curious to know your opinion on someone like Romanov; just a run-of-the-mill below average second pairing D, right?

Romanov is 21, the other is 25

One of them is playing top3 min on the worst team in the NHL, the other a top10 team

You really want to go there?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’d agree they fetch a similar return. This kid is Calgarys best prospect. Habs don’t really have a prospect at his level. Guhle would be the closest and this kid ranks above Guhle.

Would you trade Guhle for a rental? Calgary won’t either.

I would say Guhle is similar and it's subjective to who you feel is "ranked" higher. Both are basically Grade A prospects. In terms of Habs prospects, don't pretend you know our system well. You can claim we overrate prospects all day long and that's nonsense cause every fan base does it. We have a guy like Roy who is pretty much 2 pts/game as an 18 year old in the Q this year. Do we call him a Grade A? Maybe some do but I don't. More like a grade B+ trending very well. But then you see other teams who rank a guy like Kidney (who's also doing very well at age 18) as their grade A. Every single team overrates their own. Reality

But in terms of trading Pelletier, I do see that point of the Flames protecting him. He's off to a great start and maintaining his grade A prospect status in the AHL where a lot of guys have some stall years (after turning pro). My only pitch would be to send a B+ back in that package to see if they consider it. That would be Kidney for me. Flames might still say no though

One area I do ponder about is Dube had great age 20 numbers in the AHL as well. For as much as I like Pelletier and as much as the Flames like him too, he's not a sure shot top 6F yet. Great development track yes.

Remember the Oilers very high on Samorukov? I recall several Oilers fans considering him untouchable and comments like... he can be a PP QB for us. 45 pts with 10 goals in 59 OHL games. Habs have a guy like that too... Brook. Both have not been able to nail down a NHL job yet.