Value of: Chiarot to Calgary for Pelletier

[Habs Halifax]

Weird, you'd think Habs would have had a better chance packaging at Pelletier if they sent Toffoli + Chiarot together. Not saying it would have happened, but I imagine the Flames would be looking at a subtantial add to Chiarot for Pelletier.

Pelletier va Chiarot + Lehkonen + prospect or something?

If Pelletier is as good as advertised, and developing well, I'd love that as a Habs fan. Quality > quantity

Chiarot in the Toffoli package probably fell through due to cap reasons for the Flames as well. Who's the cap dump for the Flames if they add someone like Chiarot?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not as a rookie at age 20, not comparable. A better example is Tomasino who was roughly a ppg last year, or Norris who was a bit over a PPG a 2 years ago, or Terry who was a PPG a few years back.

What about Dube on your very own team recently? I think the Flames were just as high on him after his age 20 season in the AHL? The point here is you look at guys like Tomasino, Norris, Terry but omit others who also showed promised but disappointed or didn't reach their top potential.

But I repeat, I don't think the Flames move Pelletier. I respect that approach from the Flames for sure. It could back fire yes

 

[abo9]

I think you've swung too far now the other way, but cap notwithstanding, I'd do that as a Flames fan.

Yeah I'm not sure what value Pelletier's got. Would Chiarot + prospect or Chiarot + Lehkonen alone be enticing?

When i say prospect, it's obviously not a Caufield type, but montreal might not be able to sign them all, so maybe a C or B- type prospect. One that "could" become something, but is pretty far from it.

 

[abo9]

Chiarot in the Toffoli package probably fell through due to cap reasons for the Flames as well. Who's the cap dump for the Flames if they add someone like Chiarot?

Ahhh I see ... idk enough about the flames, but seems like Lucic would be the likely cap dump. Which then requires more negotiations because he's on the cap next season as well

I see how those talks could derail and end up at nothing

 

[JustAHabFan]

Yeah I'm not sure what value Pelletier's got. Would Chiarot + prospect or Chiarot + Lehkonen alone be enticing?

When i say prospect, it's obviously not a Caufield type, but montreal might not be able to sign them all, so maybe a C or B- type prospect. One that "could" become something, but is pretty far from it.

Chiarot + Lehkonen is like 2 1st. IMHO, I don't think Pelletier worth two 1st.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Would rather the flames give up Valimaki than Pelletier.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ahhh I see ... idk enough about the flames, but seems like Lucic would be the likely cap dump. Which then requires more negotiations because he's on the cap next season as well

I see how those talks could derail and end up at nothing

Yeah, Lucic is the logical one but he's been effective for the Flames recently. I think they actually value what he can provide in the playoffs when it gets even more physical.

However, I doubt they consider trading Pelletier.

I just don't see a deal with the Flames for Chiarot at this point. Other teams need Chiarot more and will offer more IMO.

 

[Volica]

Lol.
No, no I don't think this is a deal that Calgary would make.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

What about Dube on your very own team recently? I think the Flames were just as high on him after his age 20 season in the AHL? The point here is you look at guys like Tomasino, Norris, Terry but omit others who also showed promised but disappointed or didn't reach their top potential.

But I repeat, I don't think the Flames move Pelletier. I respect that approach from the Flames for sure. It could back fire yes

Dube is having 1 bad season production wise, look how at his progression over the previous couple seasons and tell me this year isn't the outlier. Also his underlying numbers are vastly better than his actual production this year. He is sitting at a GF% of 43.34% while also having a SF%, CF%, and xGF% all over 55%

 

[lucaseider]

Am I the only one who thinks it's crazy that wolf is mentioned as a throw in? IMO he is one of the top goalie prospects in the league, those should not be a "throw in", thats bad asset management if true.

 

[abo9]

Chiarot + Lehkonen is like 2 1st. IMHO, I don't think Pelletier worth two 1st.

I'm speculating, not sure how good Pelletier is. Depends how NHL-ready Pelletier is.

But, if he can be a top 6 threat as soon as next year, he's imo definitely worth 2 "late" first rounders, which we'll likely get for Chiarot/Lehkonen. Also depends on the draft strength obviously, but I do not care about losing 2 Poehling, Scherbak, McCarron, etc. for a known top prospect.

 

[crazyfisherman]

Chiarot is a LOT better than Russell lol, AINEC. Russell brings zero physicality to the table, CHiarot destroys people with his shoulder and sitck

Lol as if hitting alone makes someone better, Russ was a far better offensive player and puck mover. Russell at the time was a historically a bottom 6 that played like a top 4 D for a season or 2, just like chiraot.

 

[Bond]

I said I'd stop so we'll just disagree on our assessment of Slavin and leave it at that since it doesn't really matter in the long run.

Question on Monahan. What's caused his precipitous drop-off? I had thought I read he had a hand injury previously, is that still affecting him or was he just propped up by playing with Gaudreau?

He has been destroyed by injuries. Hip injuries made him even slower and feels like his shot is gone after his latest wrist surgery

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Yeah I'm not sure what value Pelletier's got. Would Chiarot + prospect or Chiarot + Lehkonen alone be enticing?

When i say prospect, it's obviously not a Caufield type, but montreal might not be able to sign them all, so maybe a C or B- type prospect. One that "could" become something, but is pretty far from it.

Nah not interested in that, Pelletier will very likely be playing a pretty similar role to Lehkonen next year as a 2-way guy on the 3rd line with Backlund and Coleman but has way more offensive upside and is on an ELC, whereas Lehkonen will be getting a notable raise that Calgary definitely can't afford with their upcoming pay raises. Pelletier should only be available for the addition of top end center with term like Scheifele, Miller, Larkin, or similar. (no I am not saying a 1 for 1). I would say someone like Hagel has the value to return Pelletier as he has multiple cheap years on his deal but Calgary would likely not do that.

I'm speculating, not sure how good Pelletier is. Depends how NHL-ready Pelletier is.

But, if he can be a top 6 threat as soon as next year, he's imo definitely worth 2 "late" first rounders, which we'll likely get for Chiarot/Lehkonen. Also depends on the draft strength obviously, but I do not care about losing 2 Poehling, Scherbak, McCarron, etc. for a known top prospect.

He is pretty much NHL ready, he could be called up tomorrow, jump right into the lineup and probably be relevant quite quickly. Sutter and Tre just never like rushing prospects. Dube only got into the NHL because of an injury, same with Ruzicka

 

[JustAHabFan]

I'm speculating, not sure how good Pelletier is. Depends how NHL-ready Pelletier is.

But, if he can be a top 6 threat as soon as next year, he's imo definitely worth 2 "late" first rounders, which we'll likely get for Chiarot/Lehkonen. Also depends on the draft strength obviously, but I do not care about losing 2 Poehling, Scherbak, McCarron, etc. for a known top prospect.

Problem is Pelletier never played in the NHL. You take a gamble that he will be a top 6 players and used 2 late 1st picks for that?

 

[Mersss]

Lol as if hitting alone makes someone better, Russ was a far better offensive player and puck mover. Russell at the time was a historically a bottom 6 that played like a top 4 D for a season or 2, just like chiraot.

Except, come playoff time, guys like Chiarot are the ones who win you games by abusing the other players.
Small Dman like Russell are a dime a dozen.

Chiarot's value is a lot higher then the likes of guys like Russell

 

[Bond]

Except, come playoff time, guys like Chiarot are the ones who win you games by abusing the other players.
Small Dman like Russell are a dime a dozen.

Chiarot's value is a lot higher then the likes of guys like Russell

That is why he doesn't really make sense for the Flames though. They don't need Zadorov, Gudbrandson, and Chiarot

I'm speculating, not sure how good Pelletier is. Depends how NHL-ready Pelletier is.

But, if he can be a top 6 threat as soon as next year, he's imo definitely worth 2 "late" first rounders, which we'll likely get for Chiarot/Lehkonen. Also depends on the draft strength obviously, but I do not care about losing 2 Poehling, Scherbak, McCarron, etc. for a known top prospect.

Yup, that is how you know it is a dumb article

 

[beakerboy]

Am I the only one who thinks it's crazy that wolf is mentioned as a throw in? IMO he is one of the top goalie prospects in the league, those should not be a "throw in", thats bad asset management if true.

That's one of the reasons you know that this is ridiculous. A fan blog that got amplified and suddenly people think that it is a reasonable basis.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dube is having 1 bad season production wise, look how at his progression over the previous couple seasons and tell me this year isn't the outlier. Also his underlying numbers are vastly better than his actual production this year. He is sitting at a GF% of 43.34% while also having a SF%, CF%, and xGF% all over 55%

The point is this happens more than it does not. Holding on to hope that may or may not play out like you think it does.

 

[abo9]

Problem is Pelletier never played in the NHL. You take a gamble that he will be a top 6 players and used 2 late 1st picks for that?

Scouts will have a much better picture of him than from 3 years ago - or a much better picture than they would have from late 1st rounders.

If they like what they see in a guy like Pelletier, I'd pull the trigger. There is always a chance that the late first becomes something good, but that's a risk to be taken based on where the team believes Pelletier stands. If they think he's a longshot NHLer, then no way. If they think he can jump into the NHL next season and continue to improve, then I take the gamble.

Also context is also important. Habs have a ton of picks and prospects already. I would love getting two more 1st rounders, but getting a 21 years old ripe for the NHL is also something that's pretty rare. (assuming that's what the report is on him)

In any case, it doesn't seem like such a trade would happen for Cap reasons anyway. I'm still discussing this because, in the eventuality that Chiarot + Lehkonen are traded in a package for a solid prospect, I'd rather the solid prospect than 2 late 1sts.

 

[pth2]

Valuewise, Pelletier =/= a first round pick. A PPG 21 yo in the AHL has a much better shot a becoming a top 6 forward one day than most of the players who are going to be drafted in the 20s this year

Yes, but you've given up some upside. A PPG 21yo in the AHL is more likely to be top 6, but less likely to be a Pacioretty/Pastrnak type top-liner.

 

[JustAHabFan]

Scouts will have a much better picture of him than from 3 years ago - or a much better picture than they would have from late 1st rounders.

If they like what they see in a guy like Pelletier, I'd pull the trigger. There is always a chance that the late first becomes something good, but that's a risk to be taken based on where the team believes Pelletier stands. If they think he's a longshot NHLer, then no way. If they think he can jump into the NHL next season and continue to improve, then I take the gamble.

Also context is also important. Habs have a ton of picks and prospects already. I would love getting two more 1st rounders, but getting a 21 years old ripe for the NHL is also something that's pretty rare. (assuming that's what the report is on him)

In any case, it doesn't seem like such a trade would happen for Cap reasons anyway. I'm still discussing this because, in the eventuality that Chiarot + Lehkonen are traded in a package for a solid prospect, I'd rather the solid prospect than 2 late 1sts.

I would take all the 1st I can get. If there were some good players slipping (like Caufield) then I will use these 1st to move up and draft the slipping player.

 

[TooMuchMan]

This is just bizarre. Manson got a big return because he has second-pairing upside. On a legitimate team, Chiarot shouldn’t be more than an “OK” five who plays solid pk.

Giving up a first tier prospect… plus more???? For him is just ridiculous in my opinion. I acknowledge there are other reads of his game that could definitely be more astute than mine but… I hate, hate, hate this -if remotely true- from a Calgary respective unless they’re really souring on Pelletier (why? I couldn’t give you a guess).

Yes he was very solid in the postseason… I remember. But as a 5v5 player over the past two seasons… he’s among the dregs of blueliners with 1000 or more even strength minutes in: Preventing shots and shot attempts agiainst, net rate of shot attempts, high danger chances against, high danger net chances, net goals and expected goals rate.

If my personal and others analytical reads of Chiarot are correct, he’s not even been as good as thought on the kill: Over the past two seasons he’s been bad as a shot, shot attempt, xGA/min and high danger chance allowing Dman… only performing moderately solidly (at least relative to the rest) at preventing goals and high danger goals at 4-on-5.

I thought Manson cost too much. If Chiarot gets a top-echelon forward plus or a first rounder plus, we’d be through the bloody looking glass.

 

[Vachon23]

Don't worry Flames fans, where not expecting getting Pelletier in a Chiarot deal either even if we would love to

 

[Baksfamous112]

Likely, both will probably be top 6 caliber players in their prime and both have immense potential.
As for the article it says "This is a player who’s as excitable as Cole Caufield and will immediately become a fan favorite if he lives up to his potential."

Come on now, everyone knows Pelletier was and is still a good notch below Caufield. Caufield was always seen as a top 5 - 10 prospect in the league and a legit first liner. Pelletier was always seen in the Poehling category (top 50 prospect who will/should become a good middle of the line-up player). Both were PPG or close to PPG in their D+3 season AHL stats.