Rumor: CBJ Scouting Colorado

[MoeBartoli]

Sounds like we need a player like a healthy Gaborik.

He certainly has the skill and scoring abilities. I'm curious when he was healthy who on the team did he seem to have chemistry with. I never saw strong connection with anyone but maybe others saw it differently. Could Horton be that guy? Gaborik could certainly be a difference maker.

 

[major major]

I do not consider Parenteau a legitimate top 6 player. If Columbus knows anything, they know 3rd liners.

There are 180 players in the NHL who play in their respective teams top six. How many of them do you think have a career points per game average of .71 or better? That's Parenteau's number. The numbers actually suggest he's a top liner, which I don't think is right, but its really hard to argue he's a third liner.

He certainly has the skill and scoring abilities. I'm curious when he was healthy who on the team did he seem to have chemistry with. I never saw strong connection with anyone but maybe others saw it differently. Could Horton be that guy? Gaborik could certainly be a difference maker.

Arty, no question. It's been mentioned that we might oughta try Horton-Arty-Gabby together.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

I do not consider Parenteau a legitimate top 6 player. If Columbus knows anything, they know 3rd liners.

In '10-11, he was 79th in the league (amongst all skaters) scoring 53 points. In '11-12 he was 32nd in the league scoring 67 points. Last year he was 25th in the league scoring 43 points in 48 games. In those years, he was a top line player on two different teams. He's off to a rough start this year, but is still on pace for 50 points over 82 games. Moreover, nothing about his game is suited for a third line role on a typical team. He works on the Avalanche when MacKinnon is playing third line center, but which other team has a Nathan MacKinnon as their third line center?

Unless you define legitimate as "the type of . . . I prefer," that's a ridiculous statement.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

There are 180 players in the NHL who play in their respective teams top six. How many of them do you think have a career points per game average of .71 or better? That's Parenteau's number. The numbers actually suggest he's a top liner, which I don't think is right, but its really hard to argue he's a third liner.



Arty, no question. It's been mentioned that we might oughta try Horton-Arty-Gabby together.

In '10-11, he was 79th in the league (amongst all skaters) scoring 53 points. In '11-12 he was 32nd in the league scoring 67 points. Last year he was 25th in the league scoring 43 points in 48 games. In those years, he was a top line player on two different teams. He's off to a rough start this year, but is still on pace for 50 points over 82 games. Moreover, nothing about his game is suited for a third line role on a typical team. He works on the Avalanche when MacKinnon is playing third line center, but which other team has a Nathan MacKinnon as their third line center?

Unless you define legitimate as "the type of . . . I prefer," that's a ridiculous statement.

People can say what they want but what I ultimately have a bad feeling about him. I don't think he is what the CBJ needs or worth what would they would have to give up to get him. He's been a "big dog" on non playoff teams for his entire career and has never been in the playoffs. I don't see him as the kind of guy who will push this team into the playoffs.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

People can say what they want but what I ultimately have a bad feeling about him. I don't think he is what the CBJ needs or worth what would they would have to give up to get him. He's been a "big dog" on non playoff teams for his entire career and has never been in the playoffs. I don't see him as the kind of guy who will push this team into the playoffs.

To be fair, he was a late bloomer and with NYI for that matter. Then he signed with the Avalanche. If Duchene and Tavares weren't going to push those teams into the playoffs, I hardly consider PAP's inability to do so against his qualification as a top-6 forward.

I do agree that PAP is not what your team needs though. I think his strengths would be stifled in your system while his weaknesses would be exposed.

 

[Kev22]

Just looked at the box scores from the weekend games and I think you can stop any talk about Tanguay. He was scratched on Saturday. If GMJK is scouting these guys on back-to-back nights, this has got to be big. I think the names to look at are: McGinn, O'Reilly, Parenteau and Stastny. I agree with what other have said, you don't commit those kind of resources on minor moves.

My question on Stastny is can he still perform in a #1 center role. Perhaps a line like Horton-Stastny-Gaborik when he returns?

As for return, I think you'll see our first round pick traded at some point, whether in this deal or something else. With us having kept all three firsts last year, I'm not sure we necessarily need that pick. JK and JD know that this team just needs a couple of pieces and they could make a run into the playoffs. This is the kind of sensible aggressiveness I've been hoping for during their existence. The organization has the assets to make a major move without depleting the roster. I fully see a 2 player and a first for a player trade.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I do agree that PAP is not what your team needs though. I think his strengths would be stifled in your system while his weaknesses would be exposed.

That is ultimately where I was going. For a team talking about trading Gaborik at the deadline, acquiring Parenteau doesn't make up for the gap as a dynamic player and essentially hurts in some ways as the pieces required to get him would weaken other areas more than he brings to the CBJ table.

 

[CapnCornelius]

My point exactly. I hardly call Savard a spare part with how well he has played this year and I certainly won't toss him off for another glorified 3rd liner. While Comeau is expendable after this season, he is a key force leading the team in hits this season.

Parenteau is not the game changer we need. We have enough players like him. I don't see where this deals helps Columbus at all. If Savard gets dealt, its for something better than Parenteau.

Additionally, Savard is 1 of 2 right handed shots the CBJ have on their blue line. Its not like he can be replaced that easily. This team has lacked quality right shot defenseman since day 1.

First off, we don't need a "game changer." This isn't a team struggling to get by, this is a team that's on a consistent trajectory towards the playoffs and that makes a big difference. We don't have to swing for the fences. We're likely looking for depth and incremental improvements. Yes, if a deal like one for ROR is there, we're going to look at it. But it will be because its the right move not because of need.

Secondly, I've never seen such over-rating of a 3rd pairing defenseman. And, by the way, Goloubef and Prout, both right handed shots who can fill in for Savard...assuming Jarmo does nothing else with the defense, which I think is unlikely. Note--I also generally hate the overemphasis of the importance of the "right-handed shooting defenseman" that goes back to Howson. Take a look at the Ducks team that won the Cup. Unless you think Joe DiPenta was the key to the backend, they seemed to do fine with most of their guys shooting from the left.

Third, there is no planet on which Parentau is a third line player for us. He's a guy capable of 50-60 points a season. We've got 3 guys currently on that pace and one of them is a defenseman. Yes, we have two others that are capable of those numbers that are hobbled by injury this year (Horton and Gabby), but it's just the typical HF "overvalue my player, undervalue your's" BS when you try to claim Parentau is a third liner on this team.

People can say what they want but what I ultimately have a bad feeling about him. I don't think he is what the CBJ needs or worth what would they would have to give up to get him. He's been a "big dog" on non playoff teams for his entire career and has never been in the playoffs. I don't see him as the kind of guy who will push this team into the playoffs.

So, because he's been good on poor teams, he's incapable of being better on good teams? So much for any logical reasons, now we're down to hunches and feelings. And, again, don't need a guy to "push this team into the playoffs." We need a guy who adds scoring depth to a team that is already on its way to the playoffs.

My question on Stastny is can he still perform in a #1 center role. Perhaps a line like Horton-Stastny-Gaborik when he returns?

As for return, I think you'll see our first round pick traded at some point, whether in this deal or something else. With us having kept all three firsts last year, I'm not sure we necessarily need that pick. JK and JD know that this team just needs a couple of pieces and they could make a run into the playoffs. This is the kind of sensible aggressiveness I've been hoping for during their existence. The organization has the assets to make a major move without depleting the roster. I fully see a 2 player and a first for a player trade.

I really don't get the fascination with Stastny, at all. Talk about a piece we'll have to overpay for. As a center, he doesn't really fill our most immediate needs--we have plenty of depth at center to the point where we will need to make some room for Jenner to play there in the future. Plus he's a UFA when the season is over who will likely be looking for a raise over his current $6.6 million.

I also don't think it is fair to assume that we automatically trade our first round pick. If we want to be a competitive team for years to come, we need to again start building our organizational depth. With a fork in the road for guys like Goloubef, Prout and Erixon, some of which won't be in the organization long-term, we need to draft some quality defensemen again to restock since last year we, rightly, were focused on our organizational depth at forward.

 

[Fro]

my understanding of PAP is that he's more of a playmaker than a scorer...and we need finishers...even being top 10 in goals

 

[Mayor Bee]

....

Overall I agree with your sentiments, but I have to address this next part.

Note--I also generally hate the overemphasis of the importance of the "right-handed shooting defenseman" that goes back to Howson. Take a look at the Ducks team that won the Cup. Unless you think Joe DiPenta was the key to the backend, they seemed to do fine with most of their guys shooting from the left.

I can't find any evidence of a handed bias under Howson.

LHD drafted: Olson, Weber, Blomqvist, Moore, Reilly, Murray, Curcuruto (7 total)
RHD drafted: Goloubef, Delisle, Savard, Larkin, Prout, Madaisky, Archibald (7 total)

If you break it down by round, the two first-rounders (Murray and Moore) are both lefties, as is 1/2 second-rounders (Weber), so there doesn't seem to be a bonus given to handedness.

Among defensemen he acquired:
LHD: Hejda, Tarnstrom, Tyutin, Backman, Paetsch, Lepisto, Nikitin, Johnson, Lebda, Erixon (10 total)
RHD: Commodore, Roy, Jurcina, Stralman, Rivet, Guenin, Wisniewski, Martinek, Aucoin (9 total)

If you compare the playing styles of the draft picks and the acquired players (whether free agents or in trade), there's nothing to support the idea of a bias toward either RHD or LHD.

So there's two possibilities.
1) It's entirely a media construct. Considering the way that the collective sports media treats inane blather as holy scripture, this is very possible. Or...
2) Having a decent amount of balance on the roster and in the system is exploiting a bias that doesn't exist everywhere, but certainly exists somewhere. Good baseball GMs have traditionally loaded up on middle and short relief pitchers of both hands, knowing that a team that platoons heavily will normally be guided by a manager who feels a compelling need to have as many options out of the bullpen as possible. I call this "The Tony LaRussa Effect". Knowing that the bias exists elsewhere, they're able to command a premium in the trade market for a guy who may be completely useless if not for what hand he throws with. The Indians were on the bad end of this when they traded Brian Giles (just entering his prime) for Ricardo Rincon, a fat reliever from the Mexican League who thought a strikeout was a pastry.

If someone else is willing to bump their third-round offer up to a 1st simply because the player they're picking up shoots from one side, that's something that needs to be prepared for. Conversely, if a GM regularly talks about handedness being important and thus is able to drive down an offer for a player he wants on account of making the other guy think he possesses that bias, then it might as well be talked about.

 

[blahblah]

Stasny doesn't really make sense to me. He's a center and we have a ton of those guys just as good. But maybe.....Seems like the guys we end up getting come out of left field (like Gaborik).

Personally, I think the need for Stastny is greater than most out here seem to think. Johansen/Stastny/AA/Letestu up the middle with Dubinsky as the injury/depth is amazing.

At some point, Jenner might push for center again; but that time is not now.

I don't know what to make of the rumors, but I could see either Stastny or ROR in play. As far as the Avs fans claiming there is nothing on this team or in our farm system that they "need", that is pretty delusional on their part. We're basically running 4 scoring lines right now and we have quite a bit of good defensive depth. Unless they are looking for goal tending, there could very well be a deal here somewhere.

These are two teams very much in the playoff race. Neither would be likely be selling and we're under cap pressure. If anything is going on this might be when Gaborik comes back (I doubt the Avs are interested in him long term however) or in the off season.

 

[Jackets16]

Personally, I think the need for Stastny is greater than most out here seem to think. Johansen/Stastny/AA/Letestu up the middle with Dubinsky as the injury/depth is amazing.

At some point, Jenner might push for center again; but that time is not now.

I don't know what to make of the rumors, but I could see either Stastny or ROR in play. As far as the Avs fans claiming there is nothing on this team or in our farm system that they "need", that is pretty delusional on their part. We're basically running 4 scoring lines right now and we have quite a bit of good defensive depth. Unless they are looking for goal tending, there could very well be a deal here somewhere.

These are two teams very much in the playoff race. Neither would be likely be selling and we're under cap pressure. If anything is going on this might be when Gaborik comes back (I doubt the Avs are interested in him long term however) or in the off season.

Agree to disagree. It isn't a need, so spending money/assets on that position doesn't make sense to me. We NEED a defensive defensman. We NEED a LW/RW. That is where our money/assets need to be spent/used.

 

[Kev22]

Agree to disagree. It isn't a need, so spending money/assets on that position doesn't make sense to me. We NEED a defensive defensman. We NEED a LW/RW. That is where our money/assets need to be spent/used.

I'm not sold on Stastny anymore. I listed four guys in my post above that I think we're probably talking about. McGinn, O'Reilly, Stastny and Parenteau. I think either O'Reilly or McGinn probably fit our structure very well. I'm in the air on Stastny or I think that Parenteau would be a bad idea. Outside flyer is Tanguay, but I'd be real surprised if that happened.

 

[DJA]

Parenteau is a healthy scratch tonight.

 

[Jackets16]

Parenteau is a healthy scratch tonight.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1591835

 

[Fro]

Marc Moser ‏@RadioMoser 2m

Coach Roy says P.A. Parenteau will get the night off tonight to let him rest his knee a little bit..(3 gms in 4 nights)

 

[Viqsi]

Agree to disagree. It isn't a need, so spending money/assets on that position doesn't make sense to me. We NEED a defensive defensman. We NEED a LW/RW. That is where our money/assets need to be spent/used.

Not sure if we need the winger, but Stastny would still be useful. Yes, Dubi is kicking ass right now, but that's because of literal career year numbers. I wouldn't want to do team planning strictly based on that. Seems risky.

That and we could really use a much better backup goaltender.

 

[blahblah]

Agree to disagree. It isn't a need, so spending money/assets on that position doesn't make sense to me. We NEED a defensive defensman. We NEED a LW/RW. That is where our money/assets need to be spent/used.

Man do I hate that stupid cliche.

As far as what makes sense to you? I think this talk of a defensive defesemen is overblown. We can debate wing if you like, but personally I don't think wing is any better/worse than center.

What is kind of amusing is that ROR would cost more in assets than Stastny and their next contract would probably be about the same. I think ROR is going to be a heck of a player, but to this point he's hasn't produced at the level of paycheck that he's going to want. If ROR was more inline with his career shooting pct, he would be around 13 goals. Frankly, I find ROR's long term potential to be inline with some of the other forwards we have (goals wise). Around 30 at the peak.

For the final statements. I'm not sure what is available and what isn't. What I will say is that I would wait and see what a deal was before I judged it. I also wouldn't go in with a preconceived notion of what we think JK and JD think we need.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

Speaking of backup goaltenders, did anyone consider the possibility that Aittokallio was showcased for Jarmo the other night in Tampa?

 

[blahblah]

Speaking of backup goaltenders, did anyone consider the possibility that Aittokallio was showcased for Jarmo the other night in Tampa?

Who knows, but I don't think JK is actively seeking goal tending help. Off season at the earliest.

 

[Viqsi]

Speaking of backup goaltenders, did anyone consider the possibility that Aittokallio was showcased for Jarmo the other night in Tampa?

Not really. Mostly because he's 21 and so isn't exactly an "experienced backup", and we've got lots of good young goaltenders developing in the system.

 

[Crede777]

I don't think Colorado moves ROR.

Hejda would be a good addition.
Stas would be a good addition (IMO). You cannot have too many centers. Dubi, Letestu, Mack, and even AA can play wing if needed.
McGinn would fit the team identity.
A backup goalie would be a smart addition.

In this case, as with almost any, it is all about what we are giving up and who Colorado is willing to move. We need to bolster our team, not do a major shakeup.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Marc Moser ‏@RadioMoser 2m

Coach Roy says P.A. Parenteau will get the night off tonight to let him rest his knee a little bit..(3 gms in 4 nights)

Interesting. If he were being held out for precautionary reasons to facilitate a trade, claiming anything with a knee doesn't make sense. Especially when "flu-like symptoms" is always an option.

 

[Fro]

Interesting. If he were being held out for precautionary reasons to facilitate a trade, claiming anything with a knee doesn't make sense. Especially when "flu-like symptoms" is always an option.

yeah...it was stated in the thread above they had 2 back to backs last week and PAP rushed back as it was...so more precaution

 

[Crisp Breakout]

Interesting. If he were being held out for precautionary reasons to facilitate a trade, claiming anything with a knee doesn't make sense. Especially when "flu-like symptoms" is always an option.

He suffered a second-grade MCL sprain on December 29th and came back two weeks sooner than expected. He then played a back to back. It would make sense for him to take a day off here, especially with Tanguay playing again. Lavoie is manufacturing a story.