Rumor: CBJ Scouting Colorado

[cslebn]

Some decent names hitting the market for the backup goalie / tandem position for next year too

 

[Jackets16]

I'm not sure either of these two is the most cost effective way forward. I guess they are options if the team feels the need to spend money on a player like this (currently Gaborik). I'd almost rather offer sheet an RFA or try to do a youth for youth trade (say D for F with Det or someone) and build for 2 -4 years from now.

Also next year's UFA class is much better.

O'Reilly is 23. That is pretty young to me.

 

[blahblah]

I'm not sure either of these two is the most cost effective way forward. I guess they are options if the team feels the need to spend money on a player like this (currently Gaborik). I'd almost rather offer sheet an RFA or try to do a youth for youth trade (say D for F with Det or someone) and build for 2 -4 years from now.

Also next year's UFA class is much better.

Like RD said, ROR is very young and would be an offer sheet. FYI, I have no interest in offer sheeting anyone.

 

[cslebn]

Like RD said, ROR is very young and would be an offer sheet. FYI, I have no interest in offer sheeting anyone.

Yeah I should add to my comment. I see ROR as a trade target not an offer sheet (6.5M is pricy). With that stance, I think getting him in a trade will cost more than offer sheeting someone else (B Schenn, etc). I know ROR is a more known quantity but to me this is about getting best value with positive impact. At the prices we hear for ROR, I'm not sure it's worth touching for the long term since at the end of the day he's what a version of Dubi with more skill (how much is debatable). And we already have one of those guys in Dubi for cheaper.

As for not offer sheeting anyone, I can agree with that as well. My hope is JK can make some shrewd deals that we haven't thought up and make it work. I just don't see how you change this team too much without breaking up some of what was working so well.

 

[EspenK]

Yeah I should add to my comment. I see ROR as a trade target not an offer sheet (6.5M is pricy). With that stance, I think getting him in a trade will cost more than offer sheeting someone else (B Schenn, etc). I know ROR is a more known quantity but to me this is about getting best value with positive impact. At the prices we hear for ROR, I'm not sure it's worth touching for the long term since at the end of the day he's what a version of Dubi with more skill (how much is debatable). And we already have one of those guys in Dubi for cheaper.

As for not offer sheeting anyone, I can agree with that as well. My hope is JK can make some shrewd deals that we haven't thought up and make it work. I just don't see how you change this team too much without breaking up some of what was working so well.

I think the answer lies in trading D for better forwards. We, like most fan bases, tend to over value players. I'd trade any of our D except Murray if it would get us better forwards. And I would trade most of our forwards for different ones if I thought the deal made sense. Right now, the recent 8 game winning streak notwithstanding, we are one of the middle 14 teams or so. Not good enough to compete with the big boys and not bad enough to think about the likes of Connor McDavid, et al. Heading in the right direction? Yes. A ways to go. Yes.

 

[blahblah]

I think the answer lies in trading D for better forwards. We, like most fan bases, tend to over value players.

Meh, you would be hard pressed to get me to believe that we could use more than one forward added to this group. When you do that, I'm not even sure who I want to remove from the mix. At one point that was RJ, now I'm not even sure I want to.

Personally I'd like to see if we can change up our mix a bit on D, but not for the sole purpose of improving our forwards.

I am hard pressed to find more than one or two forwards I am in a hurry to replace. I'm not even sure I'm in a hurry to replace any. Right now I'm just waiting patiently for some of our younger guys to continue to develop. We've had quite a few young forwards increase their production this year. We also have two or three forwards that could have top six or even top line impact moving forward. Not just pipe dream types.

With just a bit more consistency we could have one of the best forward groups in the NHL from top to bottom. Maybe not at the top end, skill wise. But you'd be able to get production out of all 4 lines at any time. That is something you really don't see much of.

 

[NotWendell]

I think the answer lies in trading D for better forwards. We, like most fan bases, tend to over value players. I'd trade any of our D except Murray if it would get us better forwards. And I would trade most of our forwards for different ones if I thought the deal made sense. Right now, the recent 8 game winning streak notwithstanding, we are one of the middle 14 teams or so. Not good enough to compete with the big boys and not bad enough to think about the likes of Connor McDavid, et al. Heading in the right direction? Yes. A ways to go. Yes.

Agreed. We need to improve at forward as well as on defense. And my feelings about the backup goalie are already well know.

 

[Jackets16]

I think the answer lies in trading D for better forwards. We, like most fan bases, tend to over value players. I'd trade any of our D except Murray if it would get us better forwards. And I would trade most of our forwards for different ones if I thought the deal made sense. Right now, the recent 8 game winning streak notwithstanding, we are one of the middle 14 teams or so. Not good enough to compete with the big boys and not bad enough to think about the likes of Connor McDavid, et al. Heading in the right direction? Yes. A ways to go. Yes.

I agree. Good post.

 

[cslebn]

I think the answer lies in trading D for better forwards. We, like most fan bases, tend to over value players. I'd trade any of our D except Murray if it would get us better forwards. And I would trade most of our forwards for different ones if I thought the deal made sense. Right now, the recent 8 game winning streak notwithstanding, we are one of the middle 14 teams or so. Not good enough to compete with the big boys and not bad enough to think about the likes of Connor McDavid, et al. Heading in the right direction? Yes. A ways to go. Yes.

Trading D is our best solution. But we'll probably have to package a forward with it so we can create a slot for the person we get to fit in.

I think the biggest hardship comes from who do you move. Right now there seems to be a fair amount of chemistry going on, so you have to decide where to break that up and what will improve the team the most.

 

[cslebn]

hmmm random thought,

Think Avs fans would lynch me for Gabby (healthy) + Prout + 1st for ROR?

 

[Mayor Bee]

I think the answer lies in trading D for better forwards. We, like most fan bases, tend to over value players. I'd trade any of our D except Murray if it would get us better forwards. And I would trade most of our forwards for different ones if I thought the deal made sense. Right now, the recent 8 game winning streak notwithstanding, we are one of the middle 14 teams or so. Not good enough to compete with the big boys and not bad enough to think about the likes of Connor McDavid, et al. Heading in the right direction? Yes. A ways to go. Yes.

I don't agree. So many of the forwards on this team haven't come close to hitting their prime yet, so the only real way to upgrade the forward ranks would be either by making a lateral move (for someone older, more expensive, closer to declining, and closer to UFA status) or by making a hasty move for unknown purposes.

With a team that possesses this caliber and amount of young talent, the biggest challenge isn't necessarily adding to it. It's being patient enough to handle the growing pains and not screw it up.

Look at what the Islanders did from about 1996-2002. No one can accuse that franchise of not going all in and being ballsy as hell to make moves, but they didn't add up to anything. There were shrewd trades, there were big trades, and there was good drafting. But the moves that we all remember amounted to dumping good developing young talent for something that was better at that moment is why the team became a mess.

Consider:
- Acquiring Trevor Linden for Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, and a 3rd-rounder. Linden was about to turn 28, but had already peaked and had a ton of mileage on his body. Bertuzzi had turned 23 the day prior, and McCabe was 22; both of their developments appeared to have stalled. Linden would be the type of guy to acquire to guide Bertuzzi and McCabe, not the guy to acquire at the expense of those two.
- Trading J-P Dumont (the 1996 #3 overall pick) and a 5th-rounder to Chicago for Dmitri Nabokov. This was before Dumont played an NHL game; he would play 822 NHL games, and Nabokov would play just 26 more games before heading back overseas. Mike Milbury specifically referred to Nabokov as "more NHL-ready" than Dumont; Nabokov would score 11 points with the Islanders two seasons later, while Dumont would score 15 points that very year in Chicago.
- Trading Bryan Berard for Felix Potvin. Berard was 21 and had scored 48 and 46 points from the blueline in the previous two years; Potvin was 27 and was clearly in decline.

That only takes us to February of 1999. That doesn't even touch on the Luongo trade, the Spezza/Chara for Yashin trade, or anything else. This is only about a team that had accumulated talent and managed to piss it away because they got impatient.

 

[Fro]

hmmm random thought,

Think Avs fans would lynch me for Gabby (healthy) + Prout + 1st for ROR?

they'll lynch you no matter what you put up there...

 

[cslebn]

But but but Mike Millbury is one of the worst GMs in the history of sports. He and Matt Millen should qualify for the ad hoc Hitler argument category.

Though it is fun to relive his atrocities.

 

[Mayor Bee]

But but but Mike Millbury is one of the worst GMs in the history of sports. He and Matt Millen should qualify for the ad hoc Hitler argument category.

Though it is fun to relive his atrocities.

I wonder what these boards would look like if we were Islanders fans in 1979, or Oilers fans in 1983. Both of them were in a position of having accumulated some pretty good talent, and yet didn't panic even when the growing pains manifested in some unique and crushing ways.

Starting January 1, 1976, the Islanders made almost no moves of any consequence outside of the draft. They picked up Ken Morrow in the 76 draft, plus John Tonelli and Mike Bossy in 77. They made one non-draft transaction in the 1976 calendar year, none in 1977, two in 1978, and three in 1979. The restraint is remarkable considering that they had 101 points in 1976 and got hammered in the playoffs by Montreal, 106 points in 1977 with the same playoff fate, 111 points in 1978 (first in the conference) and a humiliating loss in the first round to Toronto, and 116 points (#1 in the league) in 1979 and another early exit to the Rangers. That last team was #1 in the league in scoring and #2 in defense, including a power play of over 31%.

Yet the response was to do nothing. The Islanders sat there and did nothing in four years; their biggest trade was Dave Lewis and Billy Harris for Butch Goring. And yet they broke through and won four straight Cups (19 overall playoff series).

Now, I'm not suggesting for a second that this Columbus team is equal to the Islanders. I'm merely pointing out the difference in responses to a lot of young talent from within the same franchise. One did nothing once it was in place and won four Cups, the other felt a compelling need to do something and succeeded in blowing up a possible dynasty before it ever won a playoff series.

 

[cslebn]

certainly you can make the argument that most cup teams are formed by drafted core and allowing them to develop.

I won't even disagree with that or that we would want more time on our guys.

But it is still fun to play the game and to try to see if we can improve without impacting our core (like those teams). And it still doesn't make using Millbury as an example any better. That's the guy who went into the stands, pulled off a fan's shoe and hit him with it.

 

[EspenK]

I don't agree. So many of the forwards on this team haven't come close to hitting their prime yet, so the only real way to upgrade the forward ranks would be either by making a lateral move (for someone older, more expensive, closer to declining, and closer to UFA status) or by making a hasty move for unknown purposes.

With a team that possesses this caliber and amount of young talent, the biggest challenge isn't necessarily adding to it. It's being patient enough to handle the growing pains and not screw it up.

I wouldn't trade CAM or Calvert or Joey for anything short of a proven player same age. But what about Dubi, Foligno, Umbie and the multitude of 3rd & 4th liners? They could all go, imo. And we sure as heck don't need 9 or 10 NHL quality D-men. Someone will surely be lost to either UFA or waivers.

 

[major major]

I wouldn't trade CAM or Calvert or Joey for anything short of a proven player same age. But what about Dubi, Foligno, Umbie and the multitude of 3rd & 4th liners? They could all go, imo. And we sure as heck don't need 9 or 10 NHL quality D-men. Someone will surely be lost to either UFA or waivers.

Dubinsky and Foligno are only a couple years older than Cam and Cal, and I think more valuable to the team.

 

[blahblah]

I wouldn't trade CAM or Calvert or Joey for anything short of a proven player same age. But what about Dubi, Foligno, Umbie and the multitude of 3rd & 4th liners? They could all go, imo. And we sure as heck don't need 9 or 10 NHL quality D-men. Someone will surely be lost to either UFA or waivers.

What are you going to get for this "multitude of 3rd and 4th liners" that would actually help this team at forward?

I wouldn't trade Foligno, Dubinsky, or AA. We might let a guy like MacKenzie walk for FA, simply because of a numbers game.

Outside of 1 more scoring forward, I have no idea why we are looking at mixing up for the forward mix. I have yet to see anyone quantify this in a way that I can understand it. Are we looking for that Neil for a D man type of thing? That is about the only thing I can see. To be honest, I'm not even sure that is a "need".

With the depth we have everywhere, we are in a unique position to not have to do a darn thing (strong bargaining position). Let teams come to us and wait for the right deal. There is absolutely no desperation at all. Maybe add a depth player at the deadline. Maybe move a player that there is no longer room for.

The real decisions I see for next season.

1. RJ
2. Nikitin (or 1 other d slot if we want to keep Nikitin over someone else)
3. Too many forwards
4. Backup goal tender

We'll have plenty of cap space if we want to try and get one of the scoring forwards and if we want to spend the money (attendance isn't where we need it).

This team is improving and developing. I see no reason for many changes, if any. You might move a guy if you don't think he's fitting in, but there aren't many of those. Most our our guys have reasonable contracts.

 

[major major]

The real decisions I see for next season.

1. RJ
2. Nikitin (or 1 other d slot if we want to keep Nikitin over someone else)
3. Too many forwards
4. Backup goal tender

I agree that we are in no real need of a shakeup, if we sit pat we'll still be improving because we're very young, and the one need is a top line scoring wing. Looking at the list of decisions you've noted there, I think we could put together a deal that kills all the birds with one stone. Here comes another Edmonton trade proposal: For Eberle we send Umberger, another forward and Tyutin. We'd have to retain a lot of salary.

 

[pete goegan]

hmmm random thought,

Think Avs fans would lynch me for Gabby (healthy) + Prout + 1st for ROR?

You might be fitted for a rope from some Jackets fans, as well!

 

[Congo Jack]

I just happened to be lurking by when I noticed this thread and thought I should tell you that a Columbus scout was at the Avs-Sabres game today.

 

[Jackets16]

I just happened to be lurking by when I noticed this thread and thought I should tell you that a Columbus scout was at the Avs-Sabres game today.

Thank you

 

[NotWendell]

Another name to consider... Jamie McGinn.

 

[Kev22]

Another name to consider... Jamie McGinn.

I mentioned McGinn earlier in this thread. He seems to fit the Jackets style. If I had to pick off the Avs I would say either McGinn or O'Reilly are the best fits for the Jackets.

 

[NotWendell]

I mentioned McGinn earlier in this thread. He seems to fit the Jackets style. If I had to pick off the Avs I would say either McGinn or O'Reilly are the best fits for the Jackets.

Oh well then, I agree with you (on both counts)!